Yes, supply and demand curves will eventually get you to an equilibrium point in terms of the price point of a good or service.


But to say that fixed and variable costs have no hand in determining a good or service's price is incorrect.

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I am not sure how you inferred that at all. You said we are not deporting them. That is simply false.


I am also for stronger border security. soooo......

Fair enough I shouldn't say we don't deport them. Saying we selectivity deport illegals would be more accurate

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Fair enough I shouldn't say we don't deport them. Saying we selectivity deport illegals would be more accurate

Impose huge penalties on businesses that hire undocumented workers and let's see what happens to the issue.


Isn't it peculiar that we can't even get that discussion in congress? I bet this whole immigration issue is something big business likes because it keeps the cost of labor down in many service industries.

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Impose huge penalties on businesses that hire undocumented workers and let's see what happens to the issue.


Isn't it peculiar that we can't even get that discussion in congress? I bet this whole immigration issue is something big business likes because it keeps the cost of labor down in many service industries.

Absolutely the chamber of commerce loves illegal immigration. It's why the republicans never really do anything about it.


I'm all for making it a felony to hire illegal immigrants throw them in jail with the illegal and let's see how fast that black market for labor drys up.

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Absolutely the chamber of commerce loves illegal immigration. It's why the republicans never really do anything about it.


I'm all for making it a felony to hire illegal immigrants throw them in jail with the illegal and let's see how fast that black market for labor drys up.

Well, it looks like we got the first plank of our platform!

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Well, it looks like we got the first plank of our platform!

We can call our party the frustrated workers class lol

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Absolutely the chamber of commerce loves illegal immigration. It's why the republicans never really do anything about it.


I'm all for making it a felony to hire illegal immigrants throw them in jail with the illegal and let's see how fast that black market for labor drys up.

Getting rid of the reason illegals come here in the first place would go a long way in combating illegal immigration.  Ending the war on drugs would help as well.  Of course most Republicans would be against that.  


Building a fence sounds all well and good, but they'll find another way in so long as there's a reason to come here illegally.  We can deport them all we want, but they'll keep coming back even if we build a giant wall.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

We can call our party the frustrated workers class lol

I like it! And in the spirit of being bipartisan, we might want to think about changing the workers to another term... workers may be too socialist sounding...


Frustrated in the middle class party?

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I like it! And in the spirit of being bipartisan, we might want to think about changing the workers to another term... workers may be too socialist sounding...


Frustrated in the middle class party?

But that's sounds exclusive we want to be open to the poor and upper class. Hmmmm

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Getting rid of the reason illegals come here in the first place would go a long way in combating illegal immigration. Ending the war on drugs would help as well. Of course most Republicans would be against that.


Building a fence sounds all well and good, but they'll find another way in so long as there's a reason to come here illegally. We can deport them all we want, but they'll keep coming back even if we build a giant wall.

On this we agree 100% build a 10ft wall they'll find an 11ft ladder.

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Yes, pricing can be complicated, but I am taking issue with the idea that prices are set according to cost.  Nothing could be further from the truth.   Costs may determine how much profit the business can make, and costs can determine whether that business will even exist in the near future, but cost does not determine the price of the products that business sells.  Pricing is done to maximize revenue, or to undercut the competition, or to increase the customer base, but the price you set for the product is not set by how much the product cost you.   Because none of your customers care how much the product you are selling to them cost you.   They only care how much they want it and how much they are willing to pay for it.  Period.  If you tell them the lasagna is priced at $25 because it cost you $20, then they will say, that's interesting but I don't want the lasagna enough to pay $25 for it, regardless of what it cost you.  

 

Prices are set by supply and demand.  How much money do I have, and how much to I want your product.   I don't care how much it cost you.  I only care about what it's worth to me.   And if you find out that I am willing to pay $25 for your lasagna, then you might raise your price to $25.   Because that's all that matters: how much is the customer willing to pay. 

I see what you are saying but you are wrong.  If the price of hamburger is $1.00 per pound and I sell 1 pound hamburgers for a $1.25 and the price of beef goes up to $1.50, I can no longer sell you that hamburger for the same price.  I have to raise the price or shut the door.  

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Absolutely the chamber of commerce loves illegal immigration. It's why the republicans never really do anything about it.


I'm all for making it a felony to hire illegal immigrants throw them in jail with the illegal and let's see how fast that black market for labor drys up.

Jail time is nothing. I prefer a hefty fine, the likes of which would put most companies out of business. Make an alteration to the bankruptcy laws so they can't wiggle out and I'm on board.  

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Yes, pricing can be complicated, but I am taking issue with the idea that prices are set according to cost. Nothing could be further from the truth. Costs may determine how much profit the business can make, and costs can determine whether that business will even exist in the near future, but cost does not determine the price of the products that business sells. Pricing is done to maximize revenue, or to undercut the competition, or to increase the customer base, but the price you set for the product is not set by how much the product cost you. Because none of your customers care how much the product you are selling to them cost you. They only care how much they want it and how much they are willing to pay for it. Period. If you tell them the lasagna is priced at $25 because it cost you $20, then they will say, that's interesting but I don't want the lasagna enough to pay $25 for it, regardless of what it cost you.


Prices are set by supply and demand. How much money do I have, and how much to I want your product. I don't care how much it cost you. I only care about what it's worth to me. And if you find out that I am willing to pay $25 for your lasagna, then you might raise your price to $25. Because that's all that matters: how much is the customer willing to pay.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. I've seen counter examples but anecdotal evidence isn't always the strongest. I think sometimes yes, businesses do raise prices because of costs. They have to keep pace, meet margins, make money etc. and then yes, I agree there are businesses who see a huge demand for something, and jack up the price to take advantage. Look no further then gas prices for instance. That said, while I believe greed is a vice, i don't judge too harshly, at least with small businesses. We all gotta eat


Edit: I guess we agreed in a way because I stated the market drives the price. But at some point, if you raise it too high, some people will say forget that, I ain't paying that much, if it's not a necessity.

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Prices are set by supply and demand.   If a business can raise its price, it will and should.   Imagine if you were selling widgets at $12 per widget.   But you figured out you could price them at $20.   What do you do?   Your customers don't care how much those widgets cost you.   All they care about is how much you are going to charge them.  

 

Now imagine you go to your customers and tell them you are raising the price of your widgets because your costs have gone up.   Do your customers really care that your costs have gone up?   No.   All they care about is how much money they have to spend, and how much do they want that widget.  

 

This is why every time a business tells you it is raising its prices because its costs have gone up, it is conning you.  They are raising their prices because they figured out that you are willing to pay more.  They are just giving you an excuse.  "My costs have gone up." 

 

If a restaurant decides to raise their prices because their costs have gone up, and they successfully raise their prices, well why did they wait until their costs had gone up?  Why didn't they raise their prices a long time ago?  Obviously, the public was willing to pay a higher price.  And obviously, the diners don't care about the fact that the restaurant is going through some sort of cost squeeze.   All they care about is how good is the food, and how much are they willing to pay to eat there. 

 

Yes and no.  Yes prices are pretty much a balance of supply and demand, but there is also overhead figured into the price.  The restaurant industry or even fast food is an example of this.  They operate on some of the slimmest profit margins.  Think about it this way, and I'll use hypothetical numbers to illustrate my point.  How much does it cost you to make a pepperoni pizza in your own home from scratch?  Let's just say that it costs you $2.00 just for the ingredients.  However, you have to also consider climate control (air conditioning), rent/mortgage and electricity to run your oven and insurance to cover your house/apartment.  So let's say that the cost goes up to $5.00 to make that pizza.  You decide that you are going to sell pizzas.  Well, how much time does it take to make one pizza?  Let's just say one hour.  How much is one hour of your time worth?  We'll say that one hour of your time is minimum wage, and the minimum wage is $10.00 per hour.  The cost of that pizza is now $15.00.

 

So in order for you to pay your bills, buy ingredients and make the pizza for sale it's going to cost $15.00 per pizza.  This includes your "profit" when it comes to paying yourself.  Now what happens if the price of pepperoni or cheese goes up, and your cost for buying ingredients is now $5.00 instead of $2.00?  What happens is your $10.00 per hour earnings just fell to $7.00 per hour.

 

Next, property taxes rise and the cost of a barrel of oil rises, so your rent/mortgage costs and electricity costs rise with them.  Suddenly, your $7.00 per hour becomes say $4.00 per hour.

 

This is a very elementary example using numbers that are really not reality, but illustrates what business faces, especially in the food/service sector.

 

My point is that in a low profit margin business, a rise in operating cost does in fact lead to a rise in prices or the business folding.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Jail time is nothing. I prefer a hefty fine, the likes of which would put most companies out of business. Make an alteration to the bankruptcy laws so they can't wiggle out and I'm on board.

The whole bailout thing just kills me almost enough to push me to the dark side when Bush came out with it. But then I found my dear libertarians.

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I see what you are saying but you are wrong.  If the price of hamburger is $1.00 per pound and I sell 1 pound hamburgers for a $1.25 and the price of beef goes up to $1.50, I can no longer sell you that hamburger for the same price.  I have to raise the price or shut the door.  

Yes, but so does your competitor.  And if you make a better burger, folks will pay the extra quarter.

 

Remember how cheap Taco Bell was just 10 years ago?  Well they're still cheaper than a lot of their competition, but you can no longer eat there for 3 bucks.

 

And I am chuckling at Marty schooling everyone on free market economies.

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Yes, but so does your competitor.  And if you make a better burger, folks will pay the extra quarter.

 

Remember how cheap Taco Bell was just 10 years ago?  Well they're still cheaper than a lot of their competition, but you can no longer eat there for 3 bucks.

 

And I am chuckling at Marty schooling everyone on free market economies.

 

I ate there today for $1.49 plus tax.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yes, but so does your competitor.  And if you make a better burger, folks will pay the extra quarter.

 

Remember how cheap Taco Bell was just 10 years ago?  Well they're still cheaper than a lot of their competition, but you can no longer eat there for 3 bucks.

 

And I am chuckling at Marty schooling everyone on free market economies.

And that is the point of this entire argument I believe.  If you add an overall cost increase to the entire food industry then all parties have to adjust.

(1) They can pay the increase and raise prices.

(2) They can cut overhead (read automation and job loss).  

(3) They can shut their doors.  

 

Not one company, corporation or mom and pop shop will take a loss in revenue to accommodate this government mandated cost increase.  Which leads to:

 

(1) We the consumer can agree to pay the increase cost or not

(2) We can still enjoy our burger at the same cost but will have to directly place our order.  (Sidebar here:  Much like the gas station attendant from days gone by.  Back in my day entry level employees used to pump your gas for you, check your oil level and tire pressure for minimum wage.  They were high school kids looking for some spending money for the most part.  The market and automation phased those jobs out)

(3)  We all lose when entrepreneurs close their doors.

 

I will add that there seems to me a disconnect when idealist are so focused on an issue that they fail to see the bigger picture.  In an issue like this one I believe we all lose.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I ate there today for $1.49 plus tax.

Makes you wonder what ingredients they use...

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Makes you wonder what ingredients they use...

 

Who cares, it was good.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato