Jeez what has it been, like 4 years? What takes these trials so long?

I seem to recall there being something like 400 witnesses. Combine that with the defense repeatedly stalling the trial to request psychiatric eval after psychiatric eval, and you can see why it took so long.

 

It's cheaper to incarcerate someone for life than it is to execute them. Just sayin'.

---

The penalty phase is going to take some time as well.

---

BLEEDING TEAL IN COLORADO SINCE 95.......GO JAGS

I seem to recall there being something like 400 witnesses. Combine that with the defense repeatedly stalling the trial to request psychiatric eval after psychiatric eval, and you can see why it took so long.

 

It's cheaper to incarcerate someone for life than it is to execute them. Just sayin'.

 

A box of ammo (you don't need the whole box) or a bit of electricity is much cheaper.  Just sayin'.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

First off, thank you. I pride myself on my investigative abilities, and my history of cracking every case I've ever been placed on, even when others had failed.

 

Second, having a mental illness does not make you insane. There are millions of Americans out there fighting depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and other diseases who live a perfectly normal, healthy life. As far as the criminal justice system is involved, you are insane when you don't understand the difference between right and wrong. I think that's fair, otherwise we'd be letting murderers off the hook left and right just because they have a history of mental illness. What were Holmes' motives? Who cares. He was in control of his own actions, he knew what he was doing and he knew that it was wrong. Legally speaking, he is guilty of mass murder, and deserves whatever sentence he gets. He will be treated for whatever mental illnesses he may have while in prison, and that's all that a verdict of guilty but mentally ill (he didn't even get the "but mentally ill" part) calls for.

 

Would you justify the actions of the Charleston shooter, the Sandy Hook shooter or the 9/11 hijackers the same way? I mean, clearly no one sane would crash a 767 into a building, right?

 

That's a lot of words, but it seems that you agree with me. "What were Holmes' motives? Who cares." So you can't ascribe a motive to his actions, but he was sane? He brought only pain and misery to himself, but he was sane? Dance as much as you like - what, he had "depression"? - you can't make the case for sanity.

 

No, I don't expect you to change your mind, even though you seem to agree. I understand the societal pressures to be tough and cool. I mean, what would your buddies think? They might think you're getting soft.

 

And if you don't think the Sandy Hook shooter wasn't insane perhaps you need the help of a mental health care professional.

 

Oh, and I love that - "he'll be treated for whatever mental illness he may have while in prison" - hahahahaha. Good one.

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Jagsfan - no, I'm not basing his sanity solely on his actions. I'm basing his sanity on his motives. How was Holmes going to benefit from his actions? Did he act based on revenge? Greed? Jealousy? It doesn't appears so. Perhaps he did it because he was insane.

 

Or do you have a greater insight?

Sorry, but motive is largely irrelevant, and lack of one speaks nothing about a person's sanity. Some people kill just to watch others die. What really matters is mens rea, and this breathing piece of fecal matter demonstrated plenty of that.


So, cry your little bleeding heart out all you want, the justice system got it right. He was deemed competent to stand trial, and after hearing all of the testimony, the jury shunned the insanity defense the defense tried to sell. Is that enough insight for you?

---

A box of ammo (you don't need the whole box) or a bit of electricity is much cheaper.  Just sayin'.

Yeah, but all those appeals...attorneys ain't cheap, and I'm pretty sure Holmes isn't paying for his own defenders.

 

That's a lot of words, but it seems that you agree with me. "What were Holmes' motives? Who cares." So you can't ascribe a motive to his actions, but he was sane? He brought only pain and misery to himself, but he was sane? Dance as much as you like - what, he had "depression"? - you can't make the case for sanity.

 

No, I don't expect you to change your mind, even though you seem to agree. I understand the societal pressures to be tough and cool. I mean, what would your buddies think? They might think you're getting soft.

 

And if you don't think the Sandy Hook shooter wasn't insane perhaps you need the help of a mental health care professional.

 

Oh, and I love that - "he'll be treated for whatever mental illness he may have while in prison" - hahahahaha. Good one.

So what would you do with Holmes, hmm? Send him to a mental hospital where he'll be placed on meds for ten years then released back into the population?

 

Holmes clearly has mental health issues. I won't argue you on that. Did his mental health issues keep him from understanding the difference between right and wrong? No, and he said as much to a psychiatrist during the course of his evaluations. His motives don't matter. What matters is that he stepped into a movie theater packed with 400 people, threw smoke grenades to increase the chaos, then walked around shooting innocent people, and he was aware that what he was doing was wrong. That is the legal standard applied to a plea of insanity: does the defendant know that what they're doing is wrong?

 

I'm anti-death penalty, so I suppose my preference would be that he spend the rest of his life in prison, used by the general population as I suggested in my OP. In this case, however, I won't complain too loudly if he gets the death penalty. In fact, I won't really complain at all. Will locking him up for life and/or executing him stop the next psycho from committing the same crime? No, but it'll make damn sure that he doesn't do it again.

 

One can be a sociopath and a murderer without being clinically insane. Holmes' motives may have been as simple as a quote that seems very apropos here: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

---

Some people are just broken and have no moral compass. It doesn't mean they're insane, it just means they're jacked up. They know exactly what they're doing and why and have no problem with it. They justify their behavior in ways that don't make sense to us relatively normal folks.

 

 sociopath: <span>a
 <span>person <span>with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is </span><a class="" href='http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/antisocial'>antisocial</a>,<span>often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or  social conscience.</span></span></span>

---

Sorry, but motive is largely irrelevant, and lack of one speaks nothing about a person's sanity. Some people kill just to watch others die. What really matters is mens rea, and this breathing piece of fecal matter demonstrated plenty of that.


So, cry your little bleeding heart out all you want, the justice system got it right. He was deemed competent to stand trial, and after hearing all of the testimony, the jury shunned the insanity defense the defense tried to sell. Is that enough insight for you?

 

Another message board tough guy. You forgot the obligatory part where you state that you wish you were pulling the switch (or injecting the poison.)

 

I did like the "cry your bleeding heart out" part though. That must help you sleep better. 

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Yeah, but all those appeals...attorneys ain't cheap, and I'm pretty sure Holmes isn't paying for his own defenders.

 

So what would you do with Holmes, hmm? Send him to a mental hospital where he'll be placed on meds for ten years then released back into the population?

 

Holmes clearly has mental health issues. I won't argue you on that. Did his mental health issues keep him from understanding the difference between right and wrong? No, and he said as much to a psychiatrist during the course of his evaluations. His motives don't matter. What matters is that he stepped into a movie theater packed with 400 people, threw smoke grenades to increase the chaos, then walked around shooting innocent people, and he was aware that what he was doing was wrong. That is the legal standard applied to a plea of insanity: does the defendant know that what they're doing is wrong?

 

I'm anti-death penalty, so I suppose my preference would be that he spend the rest of his life in prison, used by the general population as I suggested in my OP. In this case, however, I won't complain too loudly if he gets the death penalty. In fact, I won't really complain at all. Will locking him up for life and/or executing him stop the next psycho from committing the same crime? No, but it'll make damn sure that he doesn't do it again.

 

One can be a sociopath and a murderer without being clinically insane. Holmes' motives may have been as simple as a quote that seems very apropos here: "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

 

Your mama must be so proud lol. Are we supposed to be impressed with your high moral standards of opposing the death penalty? From a person who hopes someone "is used by the general population"?

 

And that silliness about being released after ten years really makes you look ignorant. Tell me someone who committed a crime of this nature, was found to be insane, and then released after ten years?

 

Hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to satisfy your need for revenge.

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Some people are just broken and have no moral compass. It doesn't mean they're insane, it just means they're jacked up. They know exactly what they're doing and why and have no problem with it. They justify their behavior in ways that don't make sense to us relatively normal folks.

 

 sociopath: a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is 
antisocial<span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);">,often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or  social conscience.</span>

 

Moral compass? Jacked up? Broken? Are these medical terms or legal definitions we should now be using?

 

Do you really think someone who walks into a theater and kills 12 people is just kind of lost or broken? How about insane. Why is it so hard for some people to use that word. What is it that frightens people so?

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Another message board tough guy. You forgot the obligatory part where you state that you wish you were pulling the switch (or injecting the poison.)

 

I did like the "cry your bleeding heart out" part though. That must help you sleep better.

What happened to the discussion about motive in relation to sanity? I thought we had a good dialogue going, then you suddenly melt down like a jilted schoolgirl. And what's this tripe about about me wanting to pull the switch? Are there lines of text between the ones I typed that only you can see? Go back through the thread and see if you can find me even wishing him dead.


Oh and I sleep fine. Your mass murdering buddy would probably sleep better if you email him words of your support.

---

Moral compass? Jacked up? Broken? Are these medical terms or legal definitions we should now be using?

 

Do you really think someone who walks into a theater and kills 12 people is just kind of lost or broken? How about insane. Why is it so hard for some people to use that word. What is it that frightens people so?

I guess you skipped the definition of sociopath I left there. As someone else pointed out, a sociopath doesn't have to be insane for the heinous crime to be committed, and the reverse is true as well. While there are truly insane folks who commit crimes the reality is that there are many who are simply sociopathic.


Why is it so hard for you to get that?


As for the terms I used, they are also a fact of human nature regardless of their technical use. I was one of those broken ones for awhile. Thankfully I still had a moral compass. I just made really poor personal choices.

---

What happened to the discussion about motive in relation to sanity? I thought we had a good dialogue going, then you suddenly melt down like a jilted schoolgirl. And what's this tripe about about me wanting to pull the switch? Are there lines of text between the ones I typed that only you can see? Go back through the thread and see if you can find me even wishing him dead.

Oh and I sleep fine. Your mass murdering buddy would probably sleep better if you email him words of your support.

It's not the first time he's suddenly gone off the chain during a discussion. This happened just recently and it was pointed out to him that he seemed hostile. He said differently but it was pretty obvious.

---

Your mama must be so proud lol. Are we supposed to be impressed with your high moral standards of opposing the death penalty? From a person who hopes someone "is used by the general population"?


And that silliness about being released after ten years really makes you look ignorant. Tell me someone who committed a crime of this nature, was found to be insane, and then released after ten years?


Hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to satisfy your need for revenge.

My mother is quite proud of me, actually, but not over my death penalty views. She is very much a "hang 'em high" person.


It seems that my vengeance and your righteous indignation have reached an impasse. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go kill Captain Kirk. Enjoy your evening.

---

It's not the first time he's suddenly gone off the chain during a discussion. This happened just recently and it was pointed out to him that he seemed hostile. He said differently but it was pretty obvious.

Well, he's passionate about the subject, which is fine. But it was clear he wasn't really interested in any real conversation about the subject when he preemptively chastised any viewpoint contrary to his with his tough guy comment in his first post. And he's probably upset nobody agrees with him. Sometimes lone dissention comes from somebody just trying to be a contrarian. Perhaps that's him.

---

Can we just fry this clown already.  Would love to watch it happen. 

---

Cases like this is what he death penalty is for. When a convict is beyond rehabilitation the only option is permanent removal from society. He has established he is a killer without remorse, he can never be released back into public, it has been proven beyond a shadow of doubt he is the killer. Open and close case for the death penalty.


To the mentally ill argument I'll ask if you accept he is mentally ill so not responsible for his actions at what Point in his treatment are you comfortable reintroducing back into society? If the answer is never what's the point of treatment? Make him stable so he can rot in adult timeout for the rest of his life?

---

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go kill Captain Kirk. Enjoy your evening.

 

Is that what you kids are calling it now? In my day we just went with "dating Rosie Palm and her five sisters" or "choking the chicken." The artistic among us used "slapping the bass" (guitar not the fish). My how times don't really change.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's not the first time he's suddenly gone off the chain during a discussion. This happened just recently and it was pointed out to him that he seemed hostile. He said differently but it was pretty obvious.

 

So, give me a motive that negates insanity. I didn't see one. All I saw was a lot of dancing around, looking for words other than insanity, but mean the same thing.

 

And wasn't TJ the one who claimed the Sandy Hook shooter wasn't insane? You agree with that? Give an example of insanity so I can understand.

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

What happened to the discussion about motive in relation to sanity? I thought we had a good dialogue going, then you suddenly melt down like a jilted schoolgirl. And what's this tripe about about me wanting to pull the switch? Are there lines of text between the ones I typed that only you can see? Go back through the thread and see if you can find me even wishing him dead.


Oh and I sleep fine. Your mass murdering buddy would probably sleep better if you email him words of your support.

 

What are you - 12? You can tell you have no strength of argument.

---

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.