I disagree.  


They can refuse to bake that specific cake simply by saying they refuse to bake cakes with hateful messages on them.  That's the 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' type of refusal of service.  If the man wants a cake from a gay bakery, and they refuse him then that's discrimination.  They can refuse to make a certain cake, but they can't refuse to make him a cake at all (as long as he requests one that's within their guidelines).


I think discrimination is a horrible practice, and it sets a bad example.  Especially for children.  Now if churches don't want to perform a ceremony for a gay couple -- that's their business because they're actually a religious group.  They can deny jewish people from getting married in their church just as much as they can a gay couple.  


Don't want to attend a gay wedding?  Maybe if you're in the cake business you should hire employees to do it in your place. 

There's not a bit of hate in the message.  When did saying you support traditional marriage become hate speech?  When the gay mafia said it was so?  In that case, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, and a host of other liberal luminaries should be brought up on charges for saying that exact thing.

 

You think discrimination is a horrible practice, but your hypocrisy is showing. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

But odds are they would.  There are already stories in the media of this happening, but there's no outrage when it does.  Why is that?  Why is it that activists jump out of the woodwork when a pizza restaurant owner says in an interview that if she was asked to cater a gay wedding, she wouldn't because of her religious beliefs?  The fact that they'd never been asked to do so, and that they had gay customers that they provided service to as patrons was irrelevant.  The activists had their sacrificial lamb. 

 

It's not bigotry.  It's fact.  There is a legitimate gay mafia in our society today.  Talk to our gay relatives or friends and ask them.  It's not something I've concocted.  But hey, call me a bigot if you feel the need. 

So how about that white, right-wing mafia? Who should I go to to ask about that?

 

If a straight couple walked into a gay-owned bakery and wanted a rebel flag, racist cake made for their whites-only wedding, they'd be every bit as justified in raising hell as a gay couple denied a cake for their wedding would be. Would it get the same media outcry? No, because very few bakeries would make an overtly-racist/homophobic cake with a Confederate flag on it, and the straight couple going to the news would be regarded as idiots. The whole thing would backfire on them, and even Fox News would have a hard time not laughing at them.

 

I suppose the bigger response to your hypothetical would be that the reason you don't hear about gay-owned bakeries refusing to bake cakes for straight weddings is that it almost certainly doesn't happen. 96% of the US population identifies as straight. That bakery would be in business for about a week. It's impossible to discriminate against a majority that incredibly overwhelming and survive, so it doesn't happen, and you're not likely to ever see a case come forward short of some idiots trying to order the cake you suggested. The reason you don't hear about straight couples being refused cakes from gay bakeries is that common sense dictates that it doesn't happen. If whites had no issues discriminating against the much larger minority of black people, no one is going to have any issue discriminating against the 4% of Americans who are gay. If it takes a ruling from the Supreme Court to stop that discrimination, then so be it.

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So how about that white, right-wing mafia? Who should I go to to ask about that?

 

If a straight couple walked into a gay-owned bakery and wanted a rebel flag, racist cake made for their whites-only wedding, they'd be every bit as justified in raising hell as a gay couple denied a cake for their wedding would be. Would it get the same media outcry? No, because very few bakeries would make an overtly-racist/homophobic cake with a Confederate flag on it, and the straight couple going to the news would be regarded as idiots. The whole thing would backfire on them, and even Fox News would have a hard time not laughing at them.

 

I suppose the bigger response to your hypothetical would be that the reason you don't hear about gay-owned bakeries refusing to bake cakes for straight weddings is that it almost certainly doesn't happen. 96% of the US population identifies as straight. That bakery would be in business for about a week. It's impossible to discriminate against a majority that incredibly overwhelming and survive, so it doesn't happen, and you're not likely to ever see a case come forward short of some idiots trying to order the cake you suggested. The reason you don't hear about straight couples being refused cakes from gay bakeries is that common sense dictates that it doesn't happen. If whites had no issues discriminating against the much larger minority of black people, no one is going to have any issue discriminating against the 4% of Americans who are gay. If it takes a ruling from the Supreme Court to stop that discrimination, then so be it.

 

I don't see any conservative groups that wield the kind of bully tactics that the progressive mafia groups representing any number of sects pandered to by the democrat party.  They've got a mafia for pretty much every minority group.

 

It's already happened several times.  Here's one example.  Well, 13 actually.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The big question now remaining is: Will this ruling mark the beginning of the end of the "Wall of Separation" that has existed between church and state in America for the past 239 years? how can we expect gay rights groups and the media to respect the teachings of religious denominations and not demand marriage equality from the church's?

 

 

This is going to be an UGLY legal battle up ahead.

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The big question now remaining is: Will this ruling mark the beginning of the end of the "Wall of Separation" that has existed between church and state in America for the past 239 years? how can we expect gay rights groups and the media to respect the teachings of religious denominations and not demand marriage equality from the church's?

 

 

This is going to be an UGLY legal battle up ahead.

 

This is just the beginning. 

 

You can't and shouldn't expect anything of the sort.  It's not going to happen.  This is how it works.  They chip away and chip away until they finally break the back of whatever it is they're targeting. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The big question now remaining is: Will this ruling mark the beginning of the end of the "Wall of Separation" that has existed between church and state in America for the past 239 years? how can we expect gay rights groups and the media to respect the teachings of religious denominations and not demand marriage equality from the church's?

 

 

This is going to be an UGLY legal battle up ahead.

 

It's not a beginning, it's pretty much an end.  Gay rights "activists" are going to demand that church's and private property owner's "submit" to their wishes.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

It's not a beginning, it's pretty much an end.  Gay rights "activists" are going to demand that church's and private property owner's "submit" to their wishes.

 

While I agree with you about their goals, I disagree we're at the end.  We're very much at the beginning of a very litigious period where baiters will be targeting religious groups and businesses and challenging their views with the intention of taking them to court. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I don't see any conservative groups that wield the kind of bully tactics that the progressive mafia groups representing any number of sects pandered to by the democrat party.  They've got a mafia for pretty much every minority group.

 

It's already happened several times.  Here's one example.  Well, 13 actually.

What do you think of homosexuality, FBT?

 

And shame on those gay bakeries for not baking the cake. It was wrong of them to refuse the service. I do enjoy how the totally unbiased author of that article takes one quote that, to me, looks to be completely made up, and uses it to say that all gay people are no better than those who expounded racism. I mean, come on, a gay person claiming to be a professor at a Catholic university? Surely the author could have taken that person's name and looked them up on Facebook or LinkedIn or, God forbid, looked at the faculty list of the university that person claimed to be from.

 

It should also be pointed out that Shoebat is a Christian conservative shock site, not a reputable news source.

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I disagree.  

They can refuse to bake that specific cake simply by saying they refuse to bake cakes with hateful messages on them.  That's the 'no shirt, no shoes, no service' type of refusal of service.  If the man wants a cake from a gay bakery, and they refuse him then that's discrimination.  They can refuse to make a certain cake, but they can't refuse to make him a cake at all (as long as he requests one that's within their guidelines).


I think discrimination is a horrible practice, and it sets a bad example.  Especially for children.  Now if churches don't want to perform a ceremony for a gay couple -- that's their business because they're actually a religious group.  They can deny jewish people from getting married in their church just as much as they can a gay couple.  


Don't want to attend a gay wedding?  Maybe if you're in the cake business you should hire employees to do it in your place. 

 

So your agree that freedom is there with regard to  the first bolded statement?

 

A bakery can refuse to make a cake with what they deem a "hateful message"?  What if said bakery or owners deemed a cake made in honor of a gay wedding was a "hateful message"?  Who exactly determines what is a "hateful message"?  Perhaps there are some that believe that it's the "right message".

 

To answer a question like that, then we go into personal values and belief.  Should a certain value or belief be forced on the entire population?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

What do you think of homosexuality, FBT?

 

And shame on those gay bakeries for not baking the cake. It was wrong of them to refuse the service. I do enjoy how the totally unbiased author of that article takes one quote that, to me, looks to be completely made up, and uses it to say that all gay people are no better than those who expounded racism. I mean, come on, a gay person claiming to be a professor at a Catholic university? Surely the author could have taken that person's name and looked them up on Facebook or LinkedIn or, God forbid, looked at the faculty list of the university that person claimed to be from.

 

It should also be pointed out that Shoebat is a Christian conservative shock site, not a reputable news source.

 

I don't think that you really read the article that was linked.  It's about gay "activists" that are putting pressure on yet another private business to operate as they see fit.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

What do you think of homosexuality, FBT?

 

And shame on those gay bakeries for not baking the cake. It was wrong of them to refuse the service. I do enjoy how the totally unbiased author of that article takes one quote that, to me, looks to be completely made up, and uses it to say that all gay people are no better than those who expounded racism. I mean, come on, a gay person claiming to be a professor at a Catholic university? Surely the author could have taken that person's name and looked them up on Facebook or LinkedIn or, God forbid, looked at the faculty list of the university that person claimed to be from.

 

It should also be pointed out that Shoebat is a Christian conservative shock site, not a reputable news source.

That story was published on multiple sites.  I grabbed the first one on a list that included several sites you probably would have found more reputable.  The source doesn't diminish the fact that it actually happened.  You focus on the messenger with far more disdain than the story itself.  That's fine.  Do what you need to do there. 

 

What do I think of homosexuality?  I have friends and family members who are gay.  One of them happens to be one of my closest friends since childhood.  I don't care about who they sleep with or have relationships with any more than they do me.  Were you expecting something else?  Hate to burst your bubble as you assume I'm some bigot.  But hey, you high minded progressives who complain about name calling have no problem throwing it around yourself, so feel free to keep on firing that tag at me as you see fit.  Anyone who knows me will find a great deal of humor in that.

 

Shame on the gay bakeries?  That's a real strong rebuke right there.  Regardless of the bias of the author, the fact remains that what they did was no different than what has happened with companies who, for personal religious reasons, either politely declined to provide a service, or indicated that they would.  Those business were shut down, their owners bankrupted, and they were harassed endlessly by the same bullies that you apparently don't want to acknowledge existing.  They're progressives, so they can't possibly be in the wrong for destroying privately owned business to push their agenda.  Shame on the gay bakeries?  If there was a similar mafia on the other side of the aisle, they'd protest these businesses into bankruptcy, but that's not how things work, is it?  More than likely, they're lauded as heroes for not giving in to the evil bigoted Christians. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I don't think that you really read the article that was linked.  It's about gay "activists" that are putting pressure on yet another private business to operate as they see fit.

Of course he didn't read the article.  It was a conservative Christian writer.   Hardly credible. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Hopefully this bakery question will be resolved soon. The future of the world is at stake.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

Hopefully this bakery question will be resolved soon. The future of the world is at stake.

Pick any industry you'd like.  The fact remains the same.  There's clearly a double-standard. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Hopefully some of these big corporate churches will pay tax next and stop profiting off the tax payers.

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I was waiting for someone to make this argument. Thanks for not disappointing

Ok I'm not being sarcastic for the same reason I support gays being able to marry I support Mormons being allowed to practice polygamy and decriminalizing prostitution.

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1960's. African Americans were allowed in the store, but couldn't sit at the adjoined diner upstairs. Argument: It's my store, I do what I want. Court eventually ruled this unconstitutional as they were being "discriminated" against.


Was this wrong?

Wrong yes unconstitutional no.


Let me clarify it's unconstitutional now after the civil rights act but I argue all anti-discrimination laws should be limited to public area and public access. Privately owned property should have the right to refuse service and private individuals should have the right to choose free association.


Just like I can support gay marriage and at the same time support a baker that says no I won't make a cake for your gay wedding. To support one and not the other is hypocrisy.

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Population Control

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This is where we differ, I guess. I'm of the opinion that discrimination of any kind should be a deplorable act under law in the modern United States of America, public, private, whatever. It's a bad way to do business, it's a bad look on our beloved country, and, maybe most influentially, it sets a horrible example for our children. I would think we, as a country, should try to eliminate such a standard.

 

And two dudes getting married sets a good example? What do I tell my 5-year old when we are out and about and he asks me why two men are holding hands, kissing and walking with each other? 

 

I'm not sure whether we are all born homo or heterosexual but if we are not I definitely do not want my children to grow up thinking that it is okay to be gay.

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And two dudes getting married sets a good example? What do I tell my 5-year old when we are out and about and he asks me why two men are holding hands, kissing and walking with each other? 

 

I'm not sure whether we are all born homo or heterosexual but if we are not I definitely do not want my children to grow up thinking that it is okay to be gay.

 

If it helps, this is what I tell my kids (same age as yours) "boys and girls love each other, but sometimes boys love boys and girls love girls."

 

My daughter heard my wife and I talking about the ruling today and asked "why couldn't they get married before today?"  It was an interesting conversation!

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus