I agree, the players are completely different. I didn't think Bortles had much talent at all before or after we drafted him. And I think the risk is far less with Trevor, but it's still a risk when you pay for something you think will happen based on potential vs betting on someone based on production over an extended period of time. 

If (and it's not likely, but it's impossible to be sure) Trevor failed and turned out to be bad, and we had him on a 5-10 year deal with hundreds of millions of dollars guranteed, we'd be stuck in a financial mess for years. 

I think you have to pull the trigger on it most likely before the 2024 season begins but you need to really evaluate what happens this season to make absolute certain that he can provide the value we're paying for.

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Rewatch the two wins we had in weeks 2-1, and then go rewatch the Raiders game and tell me if you can't see the difference for yourself. It's one thing to put up a nice stat line on dink-dunk passes while your defense holds two teams to 10 total points in 2 back to back games, it's a completely different thing to lead a 17 point comeback, or go toe-to-toe with Dallas and beat them in over time, or even the chargers playoff game. Those games showed what he can do when the games on the line and he has to step up.

I could read off Bortles stats for certain games in 2015 or 2017 and pretend he was good, but you watch the tape and see how the defense handed him the ball all game and he wasn't doing much special and it shows the truth behind the stats.

What is the point of this discussion aside from random Trevor bashing? We can't offer him a new contract until next year anyway, so of course they're going to watch him play this year. Not sure what your point is?

If it's that we shouldn't keep cap space for Trevor in case he stutters this year, that makes no sense as then when he doesn't we would be in trouble.

Sorry, just not following what your point is and how it affects whether we should sign Hunter?

There's no point.

Just a guy who tried to tell us Trevor "could not throw accurately with any consistency. Period. Not in question"

So now he thinks he's got to guard his bad take and buffer any positives flowing Trevor's way with some garbage counterpoint.

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I agree, the players are completely different. I didn't think Bortles had much talent at all before or after we drafted him. And I think the risk is far less with Trevor, but it's still a risk when you pay for something you think will happen based on potential vs betting on someone based on production over an extended period of time. 

If (and it's not likely, but it's impossible to be sure) Trevor failed and turned out to be bad, and we had him on a 5-10 year deal with hundreds of millions of dollars guranteed, we'd be stuck in a financial mess for years. 

I think you have to pull the trigger on it most likely before the 2024 season begins but you need to really evaluate what happens this season to make absolute certain that he can provide the value we're paying for.

---

Rewatch the two wins we had in weeks 2-1, and then go rewatch the Raiders game and tell me if you can't see the difference for yourself. It's one thing to put up a nice stat line on dink-dunk passes while your defense holds two teams to 10 total points in 2 back to back games, it's a completely different thing to lead a 17 point comeback, or go toe-to-toe with Dallas and beat them in over time, or even the chargers playoff game. Those games showed what he can do when the games on the line and he has to step up.

I could read off Bortles stats for certain games in 2015 or 2017 and pretend he was good, but you watch the tape and see how the defense handed him the ball all game and he wasn't doing much special and it shows the truth behind the stats.

What is the point of this discussion aside from random Trevor bashing? We can't offer him a new contract until next year anyway, so of course they're going to watch him play this year. Not sure what your point is?

If it's that we shouldn't keep cap space for Trevor in case he stutters this year, that makes no sense as then when he doesn't we would be in trouble.

Sorry, just not following what your point is and how it affects whether we should sign Hunter?

Thank you.

No one is saying to give him a contract tomorrow.

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What is the point of this discussion aside from random Trevor bashing? We can't offer him a new contract until next year anyway, so of course they're going to watch him play this year. Not sure what your point is?

If it's that we shouldn't keep cap space for Trevor in case he stutters this year, that makes no sense as then when he doesn't we would be in trouble.

Sorry, just not following what your point is and how it affects whether we should sign Hunter?

Thank you.

No one is saying to give him a contract tomorrow.

When people on this thread say "WE AlReaDy KnOw WhAT WE HavE AftEr He BeAT Da ChARGErs" in response, yeah they are basically saying they'd be fine to give him herbert money right now. Which is absurd? Yes or no. Just a question, would you give him Herberts contract right now if you had that option?


Theres two types of people in the Trevor Lawrence debate.

Theres me: Who can look at the playoff charger game and acknowledge that he was a train wreck in the first half, and balled out in the second

And then theres the other people: OMG DID U SEE THAT COMEBACK, HOLY CRAP HES ELITE..completely disregarding why we had to make that comeback.

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Thank you.

No one is saying to give him a contract tomorrow.

When people on this thread say "WE AlReaDy KnOw WhAT WE HavE AftEr He BeAT Da ChARGErs" in response, yeah they are basically saying they'd be fine to give him herbert money right now. Which is absurd? Yes or no. Just a question, would you give him Herberts contract right now if you had that option?


Theres two types of people in the Trevor Lawrence debate.

Theres me: Who can look at the playoff charger game and acknowledge that he was a train wreck in the first half, and balled out in the second

And then theres the other people: OMG DID U SEE THAT COMEBACK, HOLY CRAP HES ELITE..completely disregarding why we had to make that comeback.

I would give him the Herbert contract now because it'll be cheaper than the contract he will receive next year after Burrow gets his new deal.

However, the point is moot because the Jags can't give him the contract now and he will get a new one after the 2023 season.

Also, there are more than 2 types of people in this Lawrence debate but you seem to just believe most people are blind homers and you're the only one seeing things clearly.

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When people on this thread say "WE AlReaDy KnOw WhAT WE HavE AftEr He BeAT Da ChARGErs" in response, yeah they are basically saying they'd be fine to give him herbert money right now. Which is absurd? Yes or no. Just a question, would you give him Herberts contract right now if you had that option?


Theres two types of people in the Trevor Lawrence debate.

Theres me: Who can look at the playoff charger game and acknowledge that he was a train wreck in the first half, and balled out in the second

And then theres the other people: OMG DID U SEE THAT COMEBACK, HOLY CRAP HES ELITE..completely disregarding why we had to make that comeback.

I would give him the Herbert contract now because it'll be cheaper than the contract he will receive next year after Burrow gets his new deal.

However, the point is moot because the Jags can't give him the contract now and he will get a new one after the 2023 season.

Also, there are more than 2 types of people in this Lawrence debate but you seem to just believe most people are blind homers and you're the only one seeing things clearly.

TLaw is such a team player he's only going to want $20m a year so we can afford everyone else

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

I would give him the Herbert contract now because it'll be cheaper than the contract he will receive next year after Burrow gets his new deal.

However, the point is moot because the Jags can't give him the contract now and he will get a new one after the 2023 season.

Also, there are more than 2 types of people in this Lawrence debate but you seem to just believe most people are blind homers and you're the only one seeing things clearly.

TLaw is such a team player he's only going to want $20m a year so we can afford everyone else

TLaw already stated that he wants to play under the RB Franchise Tag for 2 consecutive years following his 5-year rookie contract.

---

When people on this thread say "WE AlReaDy KnOw WhAT WE HavE AftEr He BeAT Da ChARGErs" in response, yeah they are basically saying they'd be fine to give him herbert money right now. Which is absurd? Yes or no. Just a question, would you give him Herberts contract right now if you had that option?


Theres two types of people in the Trevor Lawrence debate.

Theres me: Who can look at the playoff charger game and acknowledge that he was a train wreck in the first half, and balled out in the second

And then theres the other people: OMG DID U SEE THAT COMEBACK, HOLY CRAP HES ELITE..completely disregarding why we had to make that comeback.

I would give him the Herbert contract now because it'll be cheaper than the contract he will receive next year after Burrow gets his new deal.

However, the point is moot because the Jags can't give him the contract now and he will get a new one after the 2023 season.

Also, there are more than 2 types of people in this Lawrence debate but you seem to just believe most people are blind homers and you're the only one seeing things clearly.

I thought you just said no one was trying to give him that kinda money right now? Or am I misreading something. That's my point, you have to be a blind homer to think he's earned being the highest paid player in NFL history and while, sure giving him that contract today COULD save us a little bit of money it's still a gamble because unless you are a time traveler you have no idea whether or not he works out in the long run.

Let's be civil here, because the insults and jabs are pointless. 

All i'm saying is that I would not put the franchise future in jeopardy over a guy who has only been above average at the very best (based on his entire career thusfar) I am not discounting how well he played in the second half of the season last year infact I was the first person in the raiders/jax game day thread complimenting him on having his first real ELITE day. But heres the deal. I'd rather risk paying him slightly more after the season after he shows us what he's really made of after a second season in Pedersons offense acompanied with his hopefully fruitful relationship with Calvin Ridley, than throw the franchise financhials under the bus just to take a shot in the dark and hope and pray it works out. 

For the record, I do think he will turn out to be our guy at this point I am impressed with how he's played, but after watching countless teams throw money at QBs that had one good season or so get burned on the back end, I'll pass on that. 

I know it's all speculative because we can't technically extend him right now, but that wasn't the point.

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I would give him the Herbert contract now because it'll be cheaper than the contract he will receive next year after Burrow gets his new deal.

However, the point is moot because the Jags can't give him the contract now and he will get a new one after the 2023 season.

Also, there are more than 2 types of people in this Lawrence debate but you seem to just believe most people are blind homers and you're the only one seeing things clearly.

I thought you just said no one was trying to give him that kinda money right now? Or am I misreading something. That's my point, you have to be a blind homer to think he's earned being the highest paid player in NFL history and while, sure giving him that contract today COULD save us a little bit of money it's still a gamble because unless you are a time traveler you have no idea whether or not he works out in the long run.

Let's be civil here, because the insults and jabs are pointless. 

All i'm saying is that I would not put the franchise future in jeopardy over a guy who has only been above average at the very best (based on his entire career thusfar) I am not discounting how well he played in the second half of the season last year infact I was the first person in the raiders/jax game day thread complimenting him on having his first real ELITE day. But heres the deal. I'd rather risk paying him slightly more after the season after he shows us what he's really made of after a second season in Pedersons offense acompanied with his hopefully fruitful relationship with Calvin Ridley, than throw the franchise financhials under the bus just to take a shot in the dark and hope and pray it works out. 

For the record, I do think he will turn out to be our guy at this point I am impressed with how he's played, but after watching countless teams throw money at QBs that had one good season or so get burned on the back end, I'll pass on that. 

I know it's all speculative because we can't technically extend him right now, but that wasn't the point.

Where did I insult you?

Also. There is an extremely high chance that Trevor continues to improve. He is very likely to get a massive contract next summer so I'm just playing the odds. The Jags can't give him a new contract but I would give him the Herbert deal if I could because it'll be cheaper than what they will give him next year.

And no one is saying to give it to him right now but that they would give him Herbert money.

---

Thank you.

No one is saying to give him a contract tomorrow.

When people on this thread say "WE AlReaDy KnOw WhAT WE HavE AftEr He BeAT Da ChARGErs" in response, yeah they are basically saying they'd be fine to give him herbert money right now. Which is absurd? Yes or no. Just a question, would you give him Herberts contract right now if you had that option?


Theres two types of people in the Trevor Lawrence debate.

Theres me: Who can look at the playoff charger game and acknowledge that he was a train wreck in the first half, and balled out in the second

And then theres the other people: OMG DID U SEE THAT COMEBACK, HOLY CRAP HES ELITE..completely disregarding why we had to make that comeback.

which performance is the outlier, poochie? First half or second half?

You're completely dismissing that you spent the entire season cherry picking one or two bad throws in a game to justify your taek, while the rest of us were paying attention to the overall work. Not a single one of the 'nut-huggers' as you liked to call us were saying that the bad throws were not bad, or that they needed to be removed from his game. Now if the dude starts making habits out of throwing picks six or hitting our WR in the toes? We all gonna have to eat some words. How often do you see that happen, though? Be honest.

We can even roll this back a few posts and compare Bort with Trevor. Bort's down three scores, and says "we got this" on the sidelines. How many teammates believe, and continue to put in maximum effort to make it happen? Guess what happened last year - TLaw said "we got this", and everyone on the team KNEW he wasn't just talking out his rear. He's a leader, and he's got the game to back up his confidence. The entire team knows it, management knows it, and practically everyone on this board knows it.

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TLaw is such a team player he's only going to want $20m a year so we can afford everyone else

TLaw already stated that he wants to play under the RB Franchise Tag for 2 consecutive years following his 5-year rookie contract.

I believe if he rushes for a TD at least once per year he qualifies as an RB.

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I would give him the Herbert contract now because it'll be cheaper than the contract he will receive next year after Burrow gets his new deal.

However, the point is moot because the Jags can't give him the contract now and he will get a new one after the 2023 season.

Also, there are more than 2 types of people in this Lawrence debate but you seem to just believe most people are blind homers and you're the only one seeing things clearly.

I thought you just said no one was trying to give him that kinda money right now? Or am I misreading something. That's my point, you have to be a blind homer to think he's earned being the highest paid player in NFL history and while, sure giving him that contract today COULD save us a little bit of money it's still a gamble because unless you are a time traveler you have no idea whether or not he works out in the long run.

Let's be civil here, because the insults and jabs are pointless. 

All i'm saying is that I would not put the franchise future in jeopardy over a guy who has only been above average at the very best (based on his entire career thusfar) I am not discounting how well he played in the second half of the season last year infact I was the first person in the raiders/jax game day thread complimenting him on having his first real ELITE day. But heres the deal. I'd rather risk paying him slightly more after the season after he shows us what he's really made of after a second season in Pedersons offense acompanied with his hopefully fruitful relationship with Calvin Ridley, than throw the franchise financhials under the bus just to take a shot in the dark and hope and pray it works out. 

For the record, I do think he will turn out to be our guy at this point I am impressed with how he's played, but after watching countless teams throw money at QBs that had one good season or so get burned on the back end, I'll pass on that. 

I know it's all speculative because we can't technically extend him right now, but that wasn't the point.

That's part of the prediction - we CAN'T offer him a deal right now.
So, we have to wait until after this season anyway. Before that, more than likely Joey B is going to get his extension. Do you think he's gonna make more than Herbs? I sure as heck do. There's also talk that Pat Mahomes may be due for a reworking as all the young guns start inking deals richer than his, especially if he continues to dominate as he has. All those factors give us some darn good confidence that by the time we are working on a number both sides consider to be fair, it's probably going to be near that $300M value.

And yes, after two seasons most have us have already seen enough to say with confidence that the kid has earned his franchise-caliber contract, as we have little doubt that the trajectory will not continue upward. What have you seen that makes you think that he will regress, barring injury?

And unless he's trying to play some long game, he's going to want to set the market when he gets his deal, especially if he continues on the level he's already shown. Even if he doesn't want to, his agent absolutely will, as he probably will have other clients looking to cash in as a result of this new high bar. It's going to happen.

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Can you guys take this to the Tlaw/ChrisJagBoy thread. I keep.thinking there might be news regarding us trading for hunter only to read the same dribble I read in evwry other thread.

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Can you guys take this to the Tlaw/ChrisJagBoy thread. I keep.thinking there might be news regarding us trading for hunter only to read the same dribble I read in evwry other thread.

Agreed. So many threads get taken over by posters trying to settle old scores from previous threads -- some dating months back. It's like a soap opera. Much of this thread has been hijacked by Trevor Lawrence talk, not Danielle Hunter talk.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

Can you guys take this to the Tlaw/ChrisJagBoy thread. I keep.thinking there might be news regarding us trading for hunter only to read the same dribble I read in evwry other thread.

Agreed. So many threads get taken over by posters trying to settle old scores from previous threads -- some dating months back. It's like a soap opera. Much of this thread has been hijacked by Trevor Lawrence talk, not Danielle Hunter talk.

Noted. 

Will attempt to govern that a bit and stop fanning the flames, personally. 

Sorry, fellas.

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TLaw is such a team player he's only going to want $20m a year so we can afford everyone else

TLaw already stated that he wants to play under the RB Franchise Tag for 2 consecutive years following his 5-year rookie contract.

What's the Long Snapper franchise tag at now?

I heard that has always been his dream job anyway.

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Herp-Derp

Of course it will happen after this year and hinges on his play - like all NFL contracts. 
And he can simply pick up where he left off, not play "better." He ended the season playing well enough to earn a huge deal in this league. 

I'll bet you 10,000 dollars he is better, though. Since you still want to cling to your TL hate.

I legit can't believe there are people who still aren't 100% sold on him.

Some of us max out at 91%.

---

I thought you just said no one was trying to give him that kinda money right now? Or am I misreading something. That's my point, you have to be a blind homer to think he's earned being the highest paid player in NFL history and while, sure giving him that contract today COULD save us a little bit of money it's still a gamble because unless you are a time traveler you have no idea whether or not he works out in the long run.

Let's be civil here, because the insults and jabs are pointless. 

All i'm saying is that I would not put the franchise future in jeopardy over a guy who has only been above average at the very best (based on his entire career thusfar) I am not discounting how well he played in the second half of the season last year infact I was the first person in the raiders/jax game day thread complimenting him on having his first real ELITE day. But heres the deal. I'd rather risk paying him slightly more after the season after he shows us what he's really made of after a second season in Pedersons offense acompanied with his hopefully fruitful relationship with Calvin Ridley, than throw the franchise financhials under the bus just to take a shot in the dark and hope and pray it works out. 

For the record, I do think he will turn out to be our guy at this point I am impressed with how he's played, but after watching countless teams throw money at QBs that had one good season or so get burned on the back end, I'll pass on that. 

I know it's all speculative because we can't technically extend him right now, but that wasn't the point.

That's part of the prediction - we CAN'T offer him a deal right now.
So, we have to wait until after this season anyway. Before that, more than likely Joey B is going to get his extension. Do you think he's gonna make more than Herbs? I sure as heck do. There's also talk that Pat Mahomes may be due for a reworking as all the young guns start inking deals richer than his, especially if he continues to dominate as he has. All those factors give us some darn good confidence that by the time we are working on a number both sides consider to be fair, it's probably going to be near that $300M value.

And yes, after two seasons most have us have already seen enough to say with confidence that the kid has earned his franchise-caliber contract, as we have little doubt that the trajectory will not continue upward. What have you seen that makes you think that he will regress, barring injury?

And unless he's trying to play some long game, he's going to want to set the market when he gets his deal, especially if he continues on the level he's already shown. Even if he doesn't want to, his agent absolutely will, as he probably will have other clients looking to cash in as a result of this new high bar. It's going to happen.

Joe Burrow: 82 tds 31 int
Justin Herbert: 94 tds 35 int
Trevor Lawrence: 37 tds 25 ints

Herbert 2021 stats: 38 td 15 ints

In what world do all 3 of these guys deserve the same contract? 2 of them have certainly earned it, and statistically speaking Trevor would need to throw for about 55 or so TDs with 10 or less ints to be similar to Herberts career in year 3.

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That's part of the prediction - we CAN'T offer him a deal right now.
So, we have to wait until after this season anyway. Before that, more than likely Joey B is going to get his extension. Do you think he's gonna make more than Herbs? I sure as heck do. There's also talk that Pat Mahomes may be due for a reworking as all the young guns start inking deals richer than his, especially if he continues to dominate as he has. All those factors give us some darn good confidence that by the time we are working on a number both sides consider to be fair, it's probably going to be near that $300M value.

And yes, after two seasons most have us have already seen enough to say with confidence that the kid has earned his franchise-caliber contract, as we have little doubt that the trajectory will not continue upward. What have you seen that makes you think that he will regress, barring injury?

And unless he's trying to play some long game, he's going to want to set the market when he gets his deal, especially if he continues on the level he's already shown. Even if he doesn't want to, his agent absolutely will, as he probably will have other clients looking to cash in as a result of this new high bar. It's going to happen.

Joe Burrow: 82 tds 31 int
Justin Herbert: 94 tds 35 int
Trevor Lawrence: 37 tds 25 ints

Herbert 2021 stats: 38 td 15 ints

In what world do all 3 of these guys deserve the same contract?

The thread is about a disgruntled/trade block pass rusher

Please post on topic or take it to another thread.

Thanks

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Would be nice if it happens, but the pass rusher I want the Jags to trade for is Maxx Crosby.

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It sounds like this has legs.

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https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1...05376?s=20


https://twitter.com/nfltrade_rumors/stat...57888?s=20

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