Yeah this is bizarre everyone is running absurd times. Are we sure this isn't a 38 yard dash?

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4.21 jesus

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Yeah this is bizarre everyone is running absurd times. Are we sure this isn't a 38 yard dash?

Yea. These dudes are flying.

Alec Pierce from Cincy too.

Wandale with a 4.38

Christian Watson with an incredible combine. 

Garrett Wilson 4.37

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https://twitter.com/NFL/status/149953668...oLEAWx1CtA

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I was hoping we could get Watson in the 3rd but with that broad jump, 4.28 40 and his size hes my guy now at 33

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Gotta get this man at 33

https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1499...WXn4g7wEVA

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https://twitter.com/NFL/status/149953668...oLEAWx1CtA

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I was hoping we could get Watson in the 3rd but with that broad jump, 4.28 40 and his size hes my guy now at 33

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Gotta get this man at 33

https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1499...WXn4g7wEVA

Could you explain the RAS score and the box?

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RAS is just another composite score like SPARQ.

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https://twitter.com/NFL/status/149953668...oLEAWx1CtA

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I was hoping we could get Watson in the 3rd but with that broad jump, 4.28 40 and his size hes my guy now at 33

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Gotta get this man at 33

https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1499...WXn4g7wEVA

Could you explain the RAS score and the box?

its just a 10 point grading scale in every category with 10 being the best

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Watson honestly might be WR 1 for me. I was already super high on him i was just hoping he would fall, i doubt he does now. Hes not making it out of the 2nd.

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https://twitter.com/NFL/status/149950663...arvlyo8nkf

I was watching his highlights last night on Youtube.  This guy would be a great weapon!  It's easy to fall in love with what he could be with Trevor.  Resign Chark.  Maybe grab Christian Watson in the draft.  Oh, man!  Suddenly we'd have a passing offense.

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Fix the O-Line!

This WR class looks pretty fast so far. Could be a good one. On paper it looks like the most promising WR class since 2014.
Burks disappointed as expected.

Dotson is cementing himself as an opening night draftee. Shakir, Tolbert and Robinson at WR I think are potential steals if they slip to RD3. My fear is that a lot of WRs go on opening night though and a lot of names start shifting up in various war rooms.

This is concerning with Baalke still in the driver seat. He has no track record of landing a solid receiver via draft so we're probably going to be left to the mercy of free agency and guys coming off injuries like Williams, Metchie and Pickens.

Jelani Woods bumped up his stock as expected. McBride still looked smooth and comfortable. I still think he's the top guy at TE. Saw enough in the route and catching drills. Likely looks lean for the position but his natural ability is there. Ferguson let me down a bit. Expected more out of him.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Lol, leaves his feet on every catch

https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status...0%3Fs%3D21

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Well dang if FQJMMA said it

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Take David Bell of our board plz. Guys that horribly unathletic just don't make it.

Terrible take. Bell is not a speed guy. He creates separation via excellent route running, great hands and technique. Cooper Kupp, Keenan Allen, Jerry Rice, Larry Fitzgerald and Chris Carter all had similar 40 times. Speed is not the only factor in getting separation. Bell dominated the Big TEN despite having poor QB play at Purdue. I trust what I saw on the field over some 40 time. He would still definitely be in play for the #33 pick. He has a skill set we currently don't have in any of our current WR's, which is great hands, excellent body control and he may be one of the top 2-3 route runners in this draft class.

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Dotson getting the Lockett comp and I love that. Ran a 4.41.

Skyy Moore won’t be there in round 3 at the point. Tape is good and he ran a 4.4. He will be in the 2nd round.

Burks running a 4.5 isn’t as fast as predicted but still good for a guy his size. His hands though…. Crazy small.

Yeah it was not a great day for our WR hopes. Dotson way less likely to make it to 33. Skyy not likely to make it to 65. David Bell is basically UDFA territory now.

Wan'Dale might make it to 65 or 70 now since he measured so much smaller than expected. But it's not great that he is more likely because he's tiny.

Gonna have to take looks at Pierce and Ty Fry. I think Pierce makes a good pick at 65/70 now and Ty Fry at 102. Not sure what to do with Austin.

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Whoa Watson's broad jump at that size is bonkers, gonna have to dig deeper into him too.

Are you kidding me? You put all your emphasis on a meaningless 40 yard dash? I guess Cooper Kupp, Chris Carter and Larry Fitzgerald should have been UDFA's as well, according to your logic.

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Biggest losers for me today were David Bell, Wan'Dale, and McBride I think. Bell is damn near undraftable after being that unathletic, Wan'Dale opting out of testing and then being only 5'8" sucks, and McBride was small with unexplosive jumps and opted out of running.

Burks was kind of a loser with the small hands and bad 10 yard splits, but we already knew he was more of a long speed type of guy anyway so I don't think his stock changed a ton.

You base all your evaluations on the underwear olympics? Seriously? Bell is a legit 2-3 round pick and McBride is the best TE in this draft. McBride is 6'4" 246 lbs. That is not small by any means. Not every TE has to be the size of Gronk to be successful.

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Yeah it was not a great day for our WR hopes. Dotson way less likely to make it to 33. Skyy not likely to make it to 65. David Bell is basically UDFA territory now.

Wan'Dale might make it to 65 or 70 now since he measured so much smaller than expected. But it's not great that he is more likely because he's tiny.

Gonna have to take looks at Pierce and Ty Fry. I think Pierce makes a good pick at 65/70 now and Ty Fry at 102. Not sure what to do with Austin.

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Whoa Watson's broad jump at that size is bonkers, gonna have to dig deeper into him too.

Are you kidding me? You put all your emphasis on a meaningless 40 yard dash? I guess Cooper Kupp, Chris Carter and Larry Fitzgerald should have been UDFA's as well, according to your logic.

Meaningless?  No.

But you are right in that the 40 yard dash is not everything.  You have to be able to control that speed.  You have to be able to come in and out of breaks smoothly, set up your routes, get off the jam, and catch the ball.

Teams will see these 40 times and in many cases, review the film to see if the play on tape matches up with the speed.

A good 40 time can move you up draft boards, but if you don't have the production to match that good 40 time, teams will still be wary...at least the good ones.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

How in the hell does NFL Network report all these ridiculous 40 times for the WR's and the official times are nowhere even close to being what the official times really were? How does Chris Olave go from a 4.26 to an official 4.39? That is a ridiculously HUGE difference! Tyquan Thornton went from a record setting 4.21 to an official 4.28? That's not even close. How could they be so inaccurate with these times?

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Are you kidding me? You put all your emphasis on a meaningless 40 yard dash? I guess Cooper Kupp, Chris Carter and Larry Fitzgerald should have been UDFA's as well, according to your logic.

Meaningless?  No.

But you are right in that the 40 yard dash is not everything.  You have to be able to control that speed.  You have to be able to come in and out of breaks smoothly, set up your routes, get off the jam, and catch the ball.

Teams will see these 40 times and in many cases, review the film to see if the play on tape matches up with the speed.

A good 40 time can move you up draft boards, but if you don't have the production to match that good 40 time, teams will still be wary...at least the good ones.

Agreed. It may not be meaningless, but people need to distinguish between a speed receiver and a receiver who gets separation via great route running. One is not superior to the other. Cooper Kupp and Tyreek Hill are two completely different types of players. Both are great NFL players. One consistently moves the chains by getting 10-20 yard catches on the regular and the other is a big play guy who can break an 80 yard touchdown. We need either, preferably one of each. I don't care which order we get them in. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would draft 3 WR's from this class. I take a WR at #33, I take another with one of our 3rd round picks and I take another with one of our 7th rounders. I'm taking a great route runner, a speed WR and another that I have a good feeling about in the final round. They don't all have to be speed guys.

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Meaningless?  No.

But you are right in that the 40 yard dash is not everything.  You have to be able to control that speed.  You have to be able to come in and out of breaks smoothly, set up your routes, get off the jam, and catch the ball.

Teams will see these 40 times and in many cases, review the film to see if the play on tape matches up with the speed.

A good 40 time can move you up draft boards, but if you don't have the production to match that good 40 time, teams will still be wary...at least the good ones.

Agreed. It may not be meaningless, but people need to distinguish between a speed receiver and a receiver who gets separation via great route running. One is not superior to the other. Cooper Kupp and Tyreek Hill are two completely different types of players. Both are great NFL players. One consistently moves the chains by getting 10-20 yard catches on the regular and the other is a big play guy who can break an 80 yard touchdown. We need either, preferably one of each. I don't care which order we get them in. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would draft 3 WR's from this class. I take a WR at #33, I take another with one of our 3rd round picks and I take another with one of our 7th rounders. I'm taking a great route runner, a speed WR and another that I have a good feeling about in the final round. They don't all have to be speed guys.

It's not just that.

A fast 40 yard dash does not even mean you can get open or catch when you do get open.

One of the guys who held the record for the fastest 40 yard time was John Ross, who was drafted 9th overall by the Bengals not too long ago, after he ran a 4.22 40.

But he was widely considered a bust with Cincy, and is now with the Giants, making little impact with them.

Why?

Because pure speed is only part of the whole equation.

If you don't have the upper body strength and short space quickness to avoid or escape the jam at the LOS, you quickly can become a non factor on plays where QBs typically have 2.5-3 seconds to get rid of the ball.

One of the things that made Jimmy Smith so great is he had the ability to make every route look the same.  Often a DB didn't know what kind of route he was running, and an in route looked no different than a go route at the point.  That ability causes the split second of hesitation needed to create separation either deep or underneath.   If you don't have the body control or change of direction ability, you can't create that hesitation required to create the separation, making it harder for you to make the play as the receiver/easier for the DB to make the play.

This dynamic doesn''t just apply to receivers.

The term "workout warrior," exists for a reason.  Teams that place too much emphasis on combine results at the expense of the film pay the price.  (see Mike Mamula.)

Now there are receivers that have the complete package-the blazing 40 time, the size, physicality, route running, etc. (or at least enough of the complete package to be good player).  Guys like Moss, Megatron, Joey Galloway, James Lofton are some that leap to mind.  If you can find guys with the whole package great.  

But the moral of the story is not to overemphasize these combine results.  They give you a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire picture.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/149950663...arvlyo8nkf

I was watching his highlights last night on Youtube.  This guy would be a great weapon!  It's easy to fall in love with what he could be with Trevor.  Resign Chark.  Maybe grab Christian Watson in the draft.  Oh, man!  Suddenly we'd have a passing offense.

In another thread, I think we were challenged to decide between Dulcich and Jelani Woods.  I chose Dulcich because I think he's more explosive and more of a receiving TE than Woods, who I viewed as less of a fit for the offense-more of a pure traditional Y as opposed to more of a receiving TE.  But Woods looked good yesterday, too.  For a guy as huge as Woods, 4.61 was impressive.

As much as we like to do this for fun on message boards, etc., the fact is, when you have the one pick in the round and you are on the claock, sometimes the decision between two players can be difficult.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Agreed. It may not be meaningless, but people need to distinguish between a speed receiver and a receiver who gets separation via great route running. One is not superior to the other. Cooper Kupp and Tyreek Hill are two completely different types of players. Both are great NFL players. One consistently moves the chains by getting 10-20 yard catches on the regular and the other is a big play guy who can break an 80 yard touchdown. We need either, preferably one of each. I don't care which order we get them in. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would draft 3 WR's from this class. I take a WR at #33, I take another with one of our 3rd round picks and I take another with one of our 7th rounders. I'm taking a great route runner, a speed WR and another that I have a good feeling about in the final round. They don't all have to be speed guys.

It's not just that.

A fast 40 yard dash does not even mean you can get open or catch when you do get open.

One of the guys who held the record for the fastest 40 yard time was John Ross, who was drafted 9th overall by the Bengals not too long ago, after he ran a 4.22 40.

But he was widely considered a bust with Cincy, and is now with the Giants, making little impact with them.

Why?

Because pure speed is only part of the whole equation.

If you don't have the upper body strength and short space quickness to avoid or escape the jam at the LOS, you quickly can become a non factor on plays where QBs typically have 2.5-3 seconds to get rid of the ball.

One of the things that made Jimmy Smith so great is he had the ability to make every route look the same.  Often a DB didn't know what kind of route he was running, and an in route looked no different than a go route at the point.  That ability causes the split second of hesitation needed to create separation either deep or underneath.   If you don't have the body control or change of direction ability, you can't create that hesitation required to create the separation, making it harder for you to make the play as the receiver/easier for the DB to make the play.

This dynamic doesn''t just apply to receivers.

The term "workout warrior," exists for a reason.  Teams that place too much emphasis on combine results at the expense of the film pay the price.  (see Mike Mamula.)

Now there are receivers that have the complete package-the blazing 40 time, the size, physicality, route running, etc. (or at least enough of the complete package to be good player).  Guys like Moss, Megatron, Joey Galloway, James Lofton are some that leap to mind.  If you can find guys with the whole package great.  

But the moral of the story is not to overemphasize these combine results.  They give you a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire picture.

That's exactly what I heard someone say about Cooper Kupp recently.  He makes every route look exactly the same.  He doesn't give any clues about which way he's going run the route, or which direction he's about to break toward.  Nothing anyone can pick up on film that will help them with their coverage.  I remember that about Jimmy Smith, too.  He could make cuts at full speed.  He didn't seem to slow down, or sink his hips, or anything.

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Agreed. It may not be meaningless, but people need to distinguish between a speed receiver and a receiver who gets separation via great route running. One is not superior to the other. Cooper Kupp and Tyreek Hill are two completely different types of players. Both are great NFL players. One consistently moves the chains by getting 10-20 yard catches on the regular and the other is a big play guy who can break an 80 yard touchdown. We need either, preferably one of each. I don't care which order we get them in. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would draft 3 WR's from this class. I take a WR at #33, I take another with one of our 3rd round picks and I take another with one of our 7th rounders. I'm taking a great route runner, a speed WR and another that I have a good feeling about in the final round. They don't all have to be speed guys.

It's not just that.

A fast 40 yard dash does not even mean you can get open or catch when you do get open.

One of the guys who held the record for the fastest 40 yard time was John Ross, who was drafted 9th overall by the Bengals not too long ago, after he ran a 4.22 40.

But he was widely considered a bust with Cincy, and is now with the Giants, making little impact with them.

Why?

Because pure speed is only part of the whole equation.

If you don't have the upper body strength and short space quickness to avoid or escape the jam at the LOS, you quickly can become a non factor on plays where QBs typically have 2.5-3 seconds to get rid of the ball.

One of the things that made Jimmy Smith so great is he had the ability to make every route look the same.  Often a DB didn't know what kind of route he was running, and an in route looked no different than a go route at the point.  That ability causes the split second of hesitation needed to create separation either deep or underneath.   If you don't have the body control or change of direction ability, you can't create that hesitation required to create the separation, making it harder for you to make the play as the receiver/easier for the DB to make the play.

This dynamic doesn''t just apply to receivers.

The term "workout warrior," exists for a reason.  Teams that place too much emphasis on combine results at the expense of the film pay the price.  (see Mike Mamula.)

Now there are receivers that have the complete package-the blazing 40 time, the size, physicality, route running, etc. (or at least enough of the complete package to be good player).  Guys like Moss, Megatron, Joey Galloway, James Lofton are some that leap to mind.  If you can find guys with the whole package great.  

But the moral of the story is not to overemphasize these combine results.  They give you a piece of the puzzle, but not the entire picture.

I think the tape is the first thing to look at but then you use these combine results to see if it matches the tape.

At least that's how I would do it.

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