Quote:So your only argument is since there is no truly free market anywhere that all problems with the "Mostly Free Markets" is the government. Oh bless your heart.
At what point did the cost of healthcare begin to accelerate at an exponential rate?
Quote:At what point did the cost of healthcare begin to accelerate at an exponential rate?
The development of third party insurance companies it created a wealth target for litigation and a deep revenue stream for services.
Eliminate insurance and 60% of the problems with healthcare work themselves out
Quote:The development of third party insurance companies it created a wealth target for litigation and a deep revenue stream for services.
Eliminate insurance and 60% of the problems with healthcare work themselves out
Actually, third party insurance dates to the late 19th century. The development of health insurance had no effect on the price of care for over 100 years.
Quote:Actually, third party insurance dates to the late 19th century. The development of health insurance had no effect on the price of care for over 100 years.
Leeches are pretty cheap... heart surgery, not so much... you understand that, right?
Quote:The development of third party insurance companies it created a wealth target for litigation and a deep revenue stream for services.
Eliminate insurance and 60% of the problems with healthcare work themselves out
But what about all those people making all that money with the insurance companies? How will they get wealthy?
Quote:Leeches are pretty cheap... heart surgery, not so much... you understand that, right?
Again, point to me the place in time where healthcare costs started growing exponentially.
Quote:Again, point to me the place in time where healthcare costs started growing exponentially.
How we got here is a complicated path, it's a combination of things but the one constant is the deep pockets of massive insurance companies. They're willing to pay high rates to compensate hospitals and doctors that lose money on the poor, they are quick to settle large amounts of frivolous lawsuits and provide bad doctors cover to keep practicing instead of them going out of business, it's a case of subsidies under cutting price control in a true free market.
It doesn't matter if it's a private or public subside anytime a third party is funding an economic system the market has lost the ability to control cost.
Like I said earlier without insurance companies there would be no one willing to pay the high rates you see at hospitals or for the use of medical equipment like x-rays, MRI's and so on. No one could afford the rates so the medical suppliers would either have to lower the rate or not use the equipment that's how it works in every other economic system. There's technology for us all to go solar, but the cost isn't aligned with the market so it's not done in mass right now.
Without insurance companies providing a buffer for malpractice bad doctors would be financially ruined when litigation is served against them. They would be forced out of medicine and new doctors would replace them. Also there wouldn't be multi-million dollar law suites for simple mistakes, there would be no point you can't get blood from a stone.
Without insurance companies paying for prescriptions there would be a movement to find alternative solutions or cheaper ways to produce pharmaceuticals. You have the instances where pharmaceutical companies create a small variation in a narcotic and then get the FDA to require a prescription for it so they can charge double the cost as if it where over the counter. If private individuals where paying for it they'd simply choose the slightly different over the counter medication for half the cost. But no one cares when it's subsidized why should they that's why we have insurance.
The whole system has become to complicated and to big, that's the crux of the problem. You have both public and private subsidies driving up the cost, no one is seeking alternative cost effective solutions because the cash cow is to big, and then you have the sue happy targets for what seems like endless deep pockets.
Quote:How we got here is a complicated path, it's a combination of things but the one constant is the deep pockets of massive insurance companies. They're willing to pay high rates to compensate hospitals and doctors that lose money on the poor, they are quick to settle large amounts of frivolous lawsuits and provide bad doctors cover to keep practicing instead of them going out of business, it's a case of subsidies under cutting price control in a true free market.
It doesn't matter if it's a private or public subside anytime a third party is funding an economic system the market has lost the ability to control cost.
Like I said earlier without insurance companies there would be no one willing to pay the high rates you see at hospitals or for the use of medical equipment like x-rays, MRI's and so on. No one could afford the rates so the medical suppliers would either have to lower the rate or not use the equipment that's how it works in every other economic system. There's technology for us all to go solar, but the cost isn't aligned with the market so it's not done in mass right now.
Without insurance companies providing a buffer for malpractice bad doctors would be financially ruined when litigation is served against them. They would be forced out of medicine and new doctors would replace them. Also there wouldn't be multi-million dollar law suites for simple mistakes, there would be no point you can't get blood from a stone.
Without insurance companies paying for prescriptions there would be a movement to find alternative solutions or cheaper ways to produce pharmaceuticals. You have the instances where pharmaceutical companies create a small variation in a narcotic and then get the FDA to require a prescription for it so they can charge double the cost as if it where over the counter. If private individuals where paying for it they'd simply choose the slightly different over the counter medication for half the cost. But no one cares when it's subsidized why should they that's why we have insurance.
The whole system has become to complicated and to big, that's the crux of the problem. You have both public and private subsidies driving up the cost, no one is seeking alternative cost effective solutions because the cash cow is to big, and then you have the sue happy targets for what seems like endless deep pockets.
I truly appreciate your input, but you're off base. Here is a slide from a presentation by Dr Atul Gawande from a recent lecture that I attended that shows the point I'm making:
![[Image: CD1316rWEAA-xHw.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD1316rWEAA-xHw.jpg)
The red represents the mortality rate of hospital inpatients, the blue represents the cost in dollars for the admission. This data covers nearly two hundred years from 1820 to 2010.
Since no one would answer before, the answer to my question of WHEN healthcare costs began their exponential increase is 1965. Third party insurance existed nearly 80 years before that.
Now, what unique event did occur in the healthcare industry that could've created such an increase?
Hint: It wasn't technology, a change to protocol, or a medicinal breakthrough.
Anyone care to guess?
Quote:I truly appreciate your input, but you're off base. Here is a slide from a presentation by Dr Atul Gawande from a recent lecture that I attended that shows the point I'm making:
The red represents the mortality rate of hospital inpatients, the blue represents the cost in dollars for the admission. This data covers nearly two hundred years from 1820 to 2010.
Since no one would answer before, the answer to my question of WHEN healthcare costs began their exponential increase is 1965. Third party insurance existed nearly 80 years before that.
Now, what unique event did occur in the healthcare industry that could've created such an increase?
Hint: It wasn't technology, a change to protocol, or a medicinal breakthrough.
Anyone care to guess?
Since you are playing some silly game and asking questions rather than just providing this insight you feel you have after attending this lecture just go ahead and tell us.
Still, I'm going to guess the birth of Robert Downy Jr and Ben Stiller. Do I win anything?
Quote:I truly appreciate your input, but you're off base. Here is a slide from a presentation by Dr Atul Gawande from a recent lecture that I attended that shows the point I'm making:
The red represents the mortality rate of hospital inpatients, the blue represents the cost in dollars for the admission. This data covers nearly two hundred years from 1820 to 2010.
Since no one would answer before, the answer to my question of WHEN healthcare costs began their exponential increase is 1965. Third party insurance existed nearly 80 years before that.
Now, what unique event did occur in the healthcare industry that could've created such an increase?
Hint: It wasn't technology, a change to protocol, or a medicinal breakthrough.
Anyone care to guess?
So now we are to blame LBJ and Medicare/Medicaid?
Quote:So now we are to blame LBJ and Medicare/Medicaid?
Hey, someone finally gets it!
See, when you subsidize something you get more of it. In this case, the government subsidizes the cost of health care and Presto! you get more of it!
Thus endeth the lesson.
Quote:Hey, someone finally gets it!
See, when you subsidize something you get more of it. In this case, the government subsidizes the cost of health care and Presto! you get more of it!
Thus endeth the lesson.
Lesson unclear. Refund please
Quote:Since you are playing some silly game and asking questions rather than just providing this insight you feel you have after attending this lecture just go ahead and tell us.
Still, I'm going to guess the birth of Robert Downy Jr and Ben Stiller. Do I win anything?
It's not my insight, it the thoughts and data of the foremost thinker in healthcare policy today. Since you take the expert's word on things you should be right on board with me about dismantling government funded healthcare. Right?
Quote:Hey, someone finally gets it!
See, when you subsidize something you get more of it. In this case, the government subsidizes the cost of health care and Presto! you get more of it!
Thus endeth the lesson.
Flsprt, sorry but your thesis is flawed at best. Correlation does not imply causation. I'm gonna use some of my public education and think critically...
With your model, food stamps would have created a market where milk, bread, and cheese would also sky rocket in price... thank goodness we stopped subsidizing food, otherwise we'd be paying $1,000 a gallon for milk. Lol, are you paying that much for milk?
Quote:Hey, someone finally gets it!
See, when you subsidize something you get more of it. In this case, the government subsidizes the cost of health care and Presto! you get more of it!
Thus endeth the lesson.
Of course government subsidies in combination with private subsidies is a multiplier
Id agree government subsidies are a huge contributor to driving cost up but I'd also counter with private insurance equalling contributing to it.
Quote:It's not my insight, it the thoughts and data of the foremost thinker in healthcare policy today. Since you take the expert's word on things you should be right on board with me about dismantling government funded healthcare. Right?
The point was to stop playing this silly "I have the answer but im going to taunt with a question" game you were playing.
Quote:Of course government subsidies in combination with private subsidies is a multiplier
Id agree government subsidies are a huge contributor to driving cost up but I'd also counter with private insurance equalling contributing to it.
When there is profit to be made there is incentive to increase prices and in a manner that conditions people to the increase in price. Yes subsidies have a lot to do with things as well it seems.
Quote:![[Image: cant-understand-it-for-you.png]](http://www.king-royal-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cant-understand-it-for-you.png)
I'm going to need your teaching certification.
Quote:I'm going to need your teaching certification.
Why, you aren't going to change your mind based on what I say...