Quote:KY knows best. Look at all them numberz. The NFL people don't know nothin'.
Well you noticed for every other pick TonyK quickly chimed in with a few stats about how great that player performed in this test, or he had a speed score of so and so....for Fowler it was crickets. I have a feeling Tony wasn't thrilled w/ the Fowler pick either since it flies so hard in the face of the analytics he uses.
Quote:KY knows best. Look at all them numberz. The NFL people don't know nothin'.
Fer ur infermashun, he had a blog..
Quote:Fer ur infermashun, he had a blog..
....and charts.
Lots and lots of charts.
Quote:....and charts.
Lots and lots of charts.
I hope they're pie!!
Unlike Tyson Alualu where the franchise swore teams were interested in him and they had to act fast but no teams backed up the claim that high in the first round. The Redskins & Falcons publicly said that they were interested in Fowler in the draft and even possibly moving up for him prior to draft day.
No doubt, and who cares if he is a freak athlete or not, for 6'3 260 he's athletic enough
There are plenty of freak athletes that cant play a lick of football
Its a shame that Bortles is the type of prospect that will take 3-4 years to develop. The majority of Caldwell's picks look really good.
Quote:This is interesting now that you bring it up. Will Del Rio run his Cover 2 defense or will he allow Norton to run the Cover 3 defense from Seattle?
I do believe JDR's biggest failure was his inability to adapt to the changing of the game.. or even year to year changes of personal. It's one thing to have a philosophy, but you have to be willing to adapt and work around areas of need and change. Del Rio was so stubborn and set in his ways. I imagine he is going to go with "his" way off the bat. I don't have the same amount of disdain for JDR that most people do around here. I think he also suffered from lack of a long term talent and drafted 2 busts at QB
Quote:I do believe JDR's biggest failure was his inability to adapt to the changing of the game.. or even year to year changes of personal. It's one thing to have a philosophy, but you have to be willing to adapt and work around areas of need and change. Del Rio was so stubborn and set in his ways. I imagine he is going to go with "his" way off the bat. I don't have the same amount of disdain for JDR that most people do around here. I think he also suffered from lack of a long term talent and drafted 2 busts at QB
I wonder if spending any time in Denver with Manning changed his offensive (pun intended) philosophy
Quote:Well you noticed for every other pick TonyK quickly chimed in with a few stats about how great that player performed in this test, or he had a speed score of so and so....for Fowler it was crickets. I have a feeling Tony wasn't thrilled w/ the Fowler pick either since it flies so hard in the face of the analytics he uses.
Not to downgrade you or you specific type of prospect evaluation but I vividly remember when his analytics stated that when Blaine Gabbert had x amount of time to throw he was the best in the league such and such or other.....
Stats and analytics are nice but again are a tool to be used. You don't cook a meal with only salt and you don't build a team based only on stats. There is more that just combine numbers that make a player great. Derrick Harvey and Hayward-Bey have proven that one to us and those are only two I can think of as I'm typing this. There are things that we aren't privy to in the draft process that really separates these players. If we knew the defensive plays and assignments most of these guys had during the games that only would change about 80% of our thinking on most of these guys.
I actually like reading a lot of things you post and some of you analysis on guys because I do feel you put a little ore time into than other posters may. I guess this is my cautionary tell in only using stats.
I remember Vic used to say you can find a stat that proves anything.
Quote:Well you noticed for every other pick TonyK quickly chimed in with a few stats about how great that player performed in this test, or he had a speed score of so and so....for Fowler it was crickets. I have a feeling Tony wasn't thrilled w/ the Fowler pick either since it flies so hard in the face of the analytics he uses.
I think this draft had Bradley's finger prints all over it, certainly much more than previous drafts. He knows this year could be his last, so I'm sure Caldwell took his opinion to heart a bit more than usual. Bradley wanted a young LEO, and according to Mike Silver he let it be known that he wanted one of those top 3 running backs.
Only team i can think of wanting to trade up was Atlanta, who desperately wanted a pass rusher. Probably had Fowler rated top of their board. Fowler is a more complete player, don't care what the Vic Beasley people say, Fowler is the better prospect. Beasley is a one trick pony. Fowler can be played everywhere.
Quote:Only team i can think of wanting to trade up was Atlanta, who desperately wanted a pass rusher. Probably had Fowler rated top of their board. Fowler is a more complete player, don't care what the Vic Beasley people say, Fowler is the better prospect. Beasley is a one trick pony. Fowler can be played everywhere.
Eh, Beasley is still a really good prospect. Fowler is more versatile sure, but time will tell who the better LEO will be. Both guys have great potential.
Some guys on here think saying fowler isn't a freak athlete means we think he sucks.
He's a good enough athlete, but he didn't display many freakish moments at the combine. What I find more important is that it appears that he plays more athletic (or hard) than some other workout warriors.
But he's no freak athlete. Brandon Scherff at 320 lbs beat him at the 3-cone drill, for example.
Quote:Some guys on here think saying fowler isn't a freak athlete means we think he sucks.
He's a good enough athlete, but he didn't display many freakish moments at the combine. What I find more important is that it appears that he plays more athletic (or hard) than some other workout warriors.
But he's no freak athlete. Brandon Scherff at 320 lbs beat him at the 3-cone drill, for example.
And at the end of the day all these spider charts and numbers don't mean anything.
It all comes down to how he performs on the field and our team as well as a lot of others think that its going to be very well.
Quote:Some guys on here think saying fowler isn't a freak athlete means we think he sucks.
He's a good enough athlete, but he didn't display many freakish moments at the combine. What I find more important is that it appears that he plays more athletic (or hard) than some other workout warriors.
But he's no freak athlete. Brandon Scherff at 320 lbs beat him at the 3-cone drill, for example.
He doesn't need to be a freak of nature physically. I agree that he's good enough athletically. What is most impressive about him is that he doesn't take plays off. The kid's motor is always running. We need that.
Quote:Some guys on here think saying fowler isn't a freak athlete means we think he sucks.
He's a good enough athlete, but he didn't display many freakish moments at the combine. What I find more important is that it appears that he plays more athletic (or hard) than some other workout warriors.
But he's no freak athlete. Brandon Scherff at 320 lbs beat him at the 3-cone drill, for example.
This issue I think some of us are having is that the analytics team on the MB is using his stats to paint a picture and we are not. No one is upset he isn't being mentioned as a "freak athlete" but we do have some trying to convey that he won't be successful because he is not a "freak athlete."
We see him as a player others see him as numbers.
I don't care if a player is 600 pounds with one eye and a unicorn tail.... If he can rush the passer and produce sacks.... lets get him!
The point remains, you can have all of the intangibles in the world...the best work ethic, the hardest motor, more intensity than anyone, the desire to hit with 'bad intentions' every time...there are still minimum athletic benchmarks a player has to have to be successful and I think Fowler falls real close to the line of whether that is possible. I will stick to my thoughts, his motor and effort will keep him from being a flat out buest, but I don't think he will be a star either. Solid mid level starter.
Quote:The point remains, you can have all of the intangibles in the world...the best work ethic, the hardest motor, more intensity than anyone, the desire to hit with 'bad intentions' every time...there are still minimum athletic benchmarks a player has to have to be successful and I think Fowler falls real close to the line of whether that is possible. I will stick to my thoughts, his motor and effort will keep him from being a flat out buest, but I don't think he will be a star either. Solid mid level starter.
I think his 10 yard split is close to elite. Combine that with his non-stop motor, he will make a lot of plays. I think he is at least athletic enough to be a star. Whether he will be will be determined in the future, but he's got enough. If we use him well around his strengths, I think he can be a 10+ sack/year guy.
You can see his 10 yard split + effort get him that sack against FSU this past year when he fell down, got up, and ran him down for a sack.
Those are plays that will happen a bunch of times in his career