Quote:Assuming there's no pass like the E-pass and in a system where highways and roads are managed by various companies competing to have you drive on their road, or cities and counties use their company they'd be under pressure to establish such systems.
Toll roads are just an option, for profit companies could even build the roads at a fraction of the cost our federal government waste on infrastructure, The reality is government especially when you get to the federal level is incapable of completing a project without massive amounts of waste.
Competing to have you drive on their road? I mean I don't know about you, but usually my first thought is to where I'm going, not what roads I'm going on.
And in this scenario are we allowing private businesses to own the roads? Or just to maintain them
You still don't have much incentive to maintain back roads. I'm not sure how much cheaper 'for profit' companies could do it either. Especially since some of that government waste -- and I'm sure you will disagree that this happens, but it does -- comes from the government outsourcing things to the private sector.
Quote:Competing to have you drive on their road? I mean I don't know about you, but usually my first thought is to where I'm going, not what roads I'm going on.
And in this scenario are we allowing private businesses to own the roads? Or just to maintain them
You still don't have much incentive to maintain back roads. I'm not sure how much cheaper 'for profit' companies could do it either. Especially since some of that government waste -- and I'm sure you will disagree that this happens, but it does -- comes from the government outsourcing things to the private sector.
I'm more incline to think the waste comes from the bureaucracy of a hundreds hands having to touch a thing that should take one set of hands. That, on top of waste good old free market capitalism that rewards corrupt businesses getting getting corrupt contracts from the corrupt politicians after funding their elections.
Even if you just localized the infrastructure it would help. like boudreauw said it's the amount of times the money is changing hands that leads to so much waste.
Quote:Even if you just localized the infrastructure it would help. like boudreauw said it's the amount of times the money is changing hands that leads to so much waste.
But the infrastructure is localized already. At the state level. I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure everything but highway maintenance is overseen at the state level. In a lot of cases it is then passed down to the city level.
Quote:I'm more incline to think the waste comes from the bureaucracy of a hundreds hands having to touch a thing that should take one set of hands. That, on top of waste good old free market capitalism that rewards corrupt businesses getting getting corrupt contracts from the corrupt politicians after funding their elections.
I remember reading a report that Wisconsin would have saved $1.2 million dollars if they had state workers do the work, instead of hiring a subcontractor to do it.
There's FAR worse things the government is wasting money on than roads anyway. I mean it's like if your house is burning down, and you're worried that your neighbor still has the snow shovel you let him borrow.
Quote:Competing to have you drive on their road? I mean I don't know about you, but usually my first thought is to where I'm going, not what roads I'm going on.
And in this scenario are we allowing private businesses to own the roads? Or just to maintain them
You still don't have much incentive to maintain back roads. I'm not sure how much cheaper 'for profit' companies could do it either. Especially since some of that government waste -- and I'm sure you will disagree that this happens, but it does -- comes from the government outsourcing things to the private sector.
Duval County needs a new highway built call it 9C.
Company A would submit a bid to build said road, in their proposal they would have any tolls they would charge after building the road, for how long they would charge the tolls before releasing the road back to the county, any maintenance fee's they would charge the county during their ownership of the road.
Company B see's that Company A has submitted a bid to build the road, to gain a competitive advantage Company B tells Duval county not only will they build the road for close to the same price, they'll offer drivers a discounted pass to drive on their road. There bid also details how long they would charge tolls and passes before releasing the road back to the county, any maintenance fee's they would charge the county during their ownership of the road.
Company C wants in on the action, they do all the same as company B, but offer different maintenance fee's and structure that would save the county money during their ownership of the road
Quote:But the infrastructure is localized already. At the state level. I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure everything but highway maintenance is overseen at the state level. In a lot of cases it is then passed down to the city level.
But the Money is coming from Washington, then being passed to the State, who is then passing it to the County, that is then passing it to the City..................
Quote:Duval County needs a new highway built call it 9C.
Company A would submit a bid to build said road, in their proposal they would have any tolls they would charge after building the road, for how long they would charge the tolls before releasing the road back to the county, any maintenance fee's they would charge the county during their ownership of the road.
Company B see's that Company A has submitted a bid to build the road, to gain a competitive advantage Company B tells Duval county not only will they build the road for close to the same price, they'll offer drivers a discounted pass to drive on their road. There bid also details how long they would charge tolls and passes before releasing the road back to the county, any maintenance fee's they would charge the county during their ownership of the road.
Company C wants in on the action, they do all the same as company B, but offer different maintenance fee's and structure that would save the county money during their ownership of the road
That sounds all well and good, but there's little oversight. Company C wins the bid, and then doesn't follow through on their promises, and that's that.
Quote:That sounds all well and good, but there's little oversight. Company C wins the bid, and then doesn't follow through on their promises, and that's that.
Then like any other party that defaults on a contract they are subject to legal consequences and likely out of business. Those companies wouldn't be around for long.
So who would own the road? The government or the private company that built it?
Quote:Then like any other party that defaults on a contract they are subject to legal consequences and likely out of business. Those companies wouldn't be around for long.
You would think so, but that's just not the case.
Many companies fail to meet certain terms, and still are in business. Indiana had problems with IBM, Virginia with Northrup Grummon, Texas with Accenture.
I've learned that things that are common sense don't always hold in the business world or in politics
Quote:But the Money is coming from Washington, then being passed to the State, who is then passing it to the County, that is then passing it to the City..................
yes but it is still localized but also not all of it comes from washington. Some does. Some comes form state taxes or sales tax.
Quote:Then like any other party that defaults on a contract they are subject to legal consequences and likely out of business. Those companies wouldn't be around for long.
Full private EMT service, police server, fire departments, trash collectors with no government oversight. Surely none of those will focus on making the most money at the expense of their "customers" right? Surely they won't deny service because of deeply held beliefs right?
Quote:Full private EMT service, police server, fire departments, trash collectors with no government oversight. Surely none of those will focus on making the most money at the expense of their "customers" right? Surely they won't deny service because of deeply held beliefs right?
I don't believe I've ever argued for private emt, police or fire fighters? I know some radical anarcho-capitalist that believe in it but I just find it a bridge to far. I am however against federal funding for those services but that's not the same as calling for private companies taking over.
Quote:So who would own the road? The government or the private company that built it?
In theory those subjects would be negotiated when a contract is made between communities and companies. I don't think it's out of the realm if realism to say a company will build a road and cover all the maintenance in return set up tolls for a set period of time to make a profit and return on their investment at the end of the set period of time the company would turn ownership back to the county or city and they could decide to end the polls or continue to pay for maintenance as needed ect......
Quote:You would think so, but that's just not the case.
Many companies fail to meet certain terms, and still are in business. Indiana had problems with IBM, Virginia with Northrup Grummon, Texas with Accenture.
I've learned that things that are common sense don't always hold in the business world or in politics
That's corruption which is a whole different issue.
Quote:yes but it is still localized but also not all of it comes from washington. Some does. Some comes form state taxes or sales tax.
I can only speak to here locally I'm not going to pretend to know how it is nation wide but about 4 years ago I remember in Flagler county they built sidewalks that literally totaled 1 million dollars per mile. But no one really cared because it was 80% paid for by federal development grants. Now if it was Flagler county paying for the sidewalks how much do you think per mile it would've cost?