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Quote:Maybe I am confusing the conservative agenda with Libertarians? My bad

 

I'd posit that your intense dislike of the corporate world causes you to see every case at its lowest possible point. I'm that way about Democrats.

Quote:I'd posit that your intense dislike of the corporate world causes you to see every case at its lowest possible point. I'm that way about Democrats.

I actually do not dislike the corporate world in general. I have been a part of it for many years now in various places. What I do dislike about it is it's ability to control legislation and politics in a disproportionate way to the rest of the population should it chose to do so. The myriad of loopholes to avoid taxation is annoying but I understand why they do it.

Quote:sure but the repayment terms are more generous and flexible then any other loan. As long as you are paying the terms are beyond flexible.

 

Are you sure you dont work for Sallie Mae? They tote those same lines to some people I work with who call the workplace all the time.

Quote:Are you sure you dont work for Sallie Mae? They tote those same lines to some people I work with who call the workplace all the time.

Nope but I'm in the process of paying a boat load of money to them for my wife's student loans prior to our marriage.


Name me any other type of loan that gives you options like the forbearance, deferment, income based repayments, extended terms up to 25 years, fixed terms to reduce interest, graduated payments that's off the top of my head, as long as your paying you can't name a more generous term on loans, it's not welfare it's a loan.


Now if you want someone to burn at the stake id point you in the direction of the institutions. The average loan balance is far greater then the average cost of a degree, these kids are spending the loan money on costs of living instead of living on less.


Now if you want to just subsidize college education that's a different topic but the loan companies I laugh if only my mortgage was so flexible!

Quote:Maybe I am confusing the conservative agenda with Libertarians? My bad

On this issue libertarians and conservative line up, the market not government should set wages.


Why don't we have a $200 an hour minimum wage? Same reason we shouldn't have a $15 an hour wage......

Quote:On this issue libertarians and conservative line up, the market not government should set wages.


Why don't we have a $200 an hour minimum wage? Same reason we shouldn't have a $15 an hour wage......

 

No, not the same reason we shouldn't have a $200/hour minimum wage.


That's like saying "Why don''t we let Iran have nuclear weapons? the same reason we should't let our dogs go to the bathroom in the park."


The debate on minimum wage was where I realized that the Republican party had left me. 

Quote:No, not the same reason we shouldn't have a $200/hour minimum wage.

That's like saying "Why don''t we let Iran have nuclear weapons? the same reason we should't let our dogs go to the bathroom in the park."


The debate on minimum wage was where I realized that the Republican party had left me.

Supply and demand take the morality out of the equation it's all supply and demand.

Quote:Supply and demand take the morality out of the equation it's all supply and demand.

 

If we remove the minimum wage, we'll need to remove laws against unions.  Especially laws against secondary strikes.  Then let workers control the supply.  

Quote:If we remove the minimum wage, we'll need to remove laws against unions. Especially laws against secondary strikes. Then let workers control the supply.

Fine with me

Quote:No, not the same reason we shouldn't have a $200/hour minimum wage.

That's like saying "Why don''t we let Iran have nuclear weapons? the same reason we should't let our dogs go to the bathroom in the park."


The debate on minimum wage was where I realized that the Republican party had left me. 

 

You didn't really say "why" we shouldn't have a $200 wage but $12 is ok...

Quote:Nope but I'm in the process of paying a boat load of money to them for my wife's student loans prior to our marriage.


Name me any other type of loan that gives you options like the forbearance, deferment, income based repayments, extended terms up to 25 years, fixed terms to reduce interest, graduated payments that's off the top of my head, as long as your paying you can't name a more generous term on loans, it's not welfare it's a loan.


Now if you want someone to burn at the stake id point you in the direction of the institutions. The average loan balance is far greater then the average cost of a degree, these kids are spending the loan money on costs of living instead of living on less.


Now if you want to just subsidize college education that's a different topic but the loan companies I laugh if only my mortgage was so flexible!

 

Im pretty sure any company who provides federal and private education loans like the Sallies, and Nelnets of the world along with any financial institution who provides student loans generally have flexible terms at the beginning. The difference comes into play is regarding how much a company will loan which is what makes the Federal student loan business more promising because they can take on a bigger risk knowing they will  certainly get their loan back through collections, repayment plus accrued interest. 

 

Filed for bankruptcy? Dosent matter, most federal loans are not absolved. After you pay your loan off can you call and negotiate a fair credit report? (ie requesting to remove late charges, penalties, collection attempts, etc) probably not. So they do more damage than good. 

 

Yeah like you said, they are flexible in the beginning, but you better not default on your loan. They will call your job and most certainty put your job standing in jeopardy as it seems you are accepting personal calls during company time. They dont care, one rep called asking for an associate and I informed her politely personal calls are not welcomed unless its an emergency. She stated she has a right to call even if it put the debtor's job at risk. 

 

It's funny because right after I graduated with my Bachelor's and paid off my loan, I kept receiving letters from all different student loan institutions about how I was eligible for all of these loans based off of my credit history blah blah blah if I continued my education. Each letter I receive I toss in the trash.

 

Scholly.com (no spam) Is a great way to look for multiple scholarships. 

Quote:You didn't really say "why" we shouldn't have a $200 wage but $12 is ok...

I think it's fairly obvious is it not? One is close to the necessities of a living wage and the other is talking point used by the right as part of a slippery slope fallacy. 

Quote:I think it's fairly obvious is it not? One is close to the necessities of a living wage and the other is talking point used by the right as part of a slippery slope fallacy. 

 

No it's not a fallacy, why is $15 a living wage minimum wage? That's only $2400 a month no way is that a realistic living wage in many parts of the country.

 

The idea that we can just arbitrarily raise the minimum wage and everyone will at least be able to pay their bills is ridiculous, the moment you start paying burger flippers $15 an hour the cost of living goes up for everyone. Then the guy that worked 5 years at his job to make $6 an hour MORE than minimum wage is screwed. You're devaluing his dollar to give the other guy more of a devalued dollar, how does that make sense to anyone?

 

I'll make it easier, would you support a $30 an hour minimum wage? That puts the minimum wage close to 60,000 a year which is a liveable wage for the majority of America. Why not?

Quote:No it's not a fallacy, why is $15 a living wage minimum wage? That's only $2400 a month no way is that a realistic living wage in many parts of the country.

 

The idea that we can just arbitrarily raise the minimum wage and everyone will at least be able to pay their bills is ridiculous, the moment you start paying burger flippers $15 an hour the cost of living goes up for everyone. Then the guy that worked 5 years at his job to make $6 an hour MORE than minimum wage is screwed. You're devaluing his dollar to give the other guy more of a devalued dollar, how does that make sense to anyone?

 

I'll make it easier, would you support a $30 an hour minimum wage? That puts the minimum wage close to 60,000 a year which is a liveable wage for the majority of America. Why not?

 

Let me ask this:


What's wrong with raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour?  Which is what most are looking for.  And would make a real difference for most minimum wage earners (of which the median age is 28)

 

Nobody is advocating a $30.00/an hour minimum wage, and only few want to raise it to $15.00/hour.  Many jobs don't make $60k/year.


Take my wife for example.  She's a high school teacher, and has been for 7 years.  She's not even making $50k/year.  She wasn't even making $40k/year her first year.   There are a lot of jobs that don't make anywhere near $60k/year, and aren't minimum wage jobs.  I know that my job doesn't make that much either.  (And we live in one of the areas for WORST cost of living.)


With minimum wage at what it is now, that's (assuming 40 hour weeks, 52 weeks a year) $15k/year.  

Raise it to $10.10/year and it becomes $21k/year

 

That raises people's standards of living, and those making minimum wage are going to pump more money into the economy.  Because those who are making the least, are going to spend the money they get.  (This is simple economics).  


$21k/year is far more livable, and a totally reasonable wage.  (It would still put you above the poverty threshold for a family of 3) 

A lot of non-minimum wage workers make less than $60k/year.  Quadrupling the minimum wage would kill the economy and cause inflation.  Raising it to $10.10 would not.  

Quote:No it's not a fallacy, why is $15 a living wage minimum wage? That's only $2400 a month no way is that a realistic living wage in many parts of the country.

 

The idea that we can just arbitrarily raise the minimum wage and everyone will at least be able to pay their bills is ridiculous, the moment you start paying burger flippers $15 an hour the cost of living goes up for everyone. Then the guy that worked 5 years at his job to make $6 an hour MORE than minimum wage is screwed. You're devaluing his dollar to give the other guy more of a devalued dollar, how does that make sense to anyone?

 

I'll make it easier, would you support a $30 an hour minimum wage? That puts the minimum wage close to 60,000 a year which is a liveable wage for the majority of America. Why not?

There is a difference between a living wage and what you are proposing. A living wage allows you to pay a modest rent/utilities and eat/feed kids w/e.. It's not luxurious. 60k allows people to live pretty darned well in most of the country. 60k is a VERY good living in Jax and a reasonable one here in Portland.

 

The part I bolded above is faulty logic IMO though. Cost of living increased over the decades and profits have skyrocketed while minimum wage has not increased. The person making 6 bucks more in raises would be making even more money if minimum wage was higher assuming his starting salary was linked to a minimum wage job. 

Quote:Let me ask this:


What's wrong with raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour?  Which is what most are looking for.  And would make a real difference for most minimum wage earners (of which the median age is 28)

 

Nobody is advocating a $30.00/an hour minimum wage, and only few want to raise it to $15.00/hour.  Many jobs don't make $60k/year.


Take my wife for example.  She's a high school teacher, and has been for 7 years.  She's not even making $50k/year.  She wasn't even making $40k/year her first year.   There are a lot of jobs that don't make anywhere near $60k/year, and aren't minimum wage jobs.  I know that my job doesn't make that much either.  (And we live in one of the areas for WORST cost of living.)


With minimum wage at what it is now, that's (assuming 40 hour weeks, 52 weeks a year) $15k/year.  

Raise it to $10.10/year and it becomes $21k/year

 

That raises people's standards of living, and those making minimum wage are going to pump more money into the economy.  Because those who are making the least, are going to spend the money they get.  (This is simple economics).  


$21k/year is far more livable, and a totally reasonable wage.  (It would still put you above the poverty threshold for a family of 3) 

A lot of non-minimum wage workers make less than $60k/year.  Quadrupling the minimum wage would kill the economy and cause inflation.  Raising it to $10.10 would not.  

 

It all has the same effect just on different scales. I used 60k a year to drive that point home. Raising the minimum wage to 21k a year doesn't change the situation for people on minimum wage, at that level of pay you're either a dependent of someone else or you need welfare to survive. Making the pay floor 5k more a year isn't changing any of that. The people on minimum wage have to figure out a way to increase their income that's simple economics, the reality is any job paying minimum wage was never designed to be a living wage.

 

Why is $7.75 an hour a gross injustice of this world and $10.10 a practical living wage? Because $10.10 sounds good? You think someone can support a family on $10.10 without help?

Quote:There is a difference between a living wage and what you are proposing. A living wage allows you to pay a modest rent/utilities and eat/feed kids w/e.. It's not luxurious. 60k allows people to live pretty darned well in most of the country. 60k is a VERY good living in Jax and a reasonable one here in Portland.

 

The part I bolded above is faulty logic IMO though. Cost of living increased over the decades and profits have skyrocketed while minimum wage has not increased. The person making 6 bucks more in raises would be making even more money if minimum wage was higher assuming his starting salary was linked to a minimum wage job. 

 

$10.10 doesn't afford you to pay rent and feed your family. Not without charity or welfare.

Quote:It all has the same effect just on different scales. I used 60k a year to drive that point home. Raising the minimum wage to 21k a year doesn't change the situation for people on minimum wage, at that level of pay you're either a dependent of someone else or you need welfare to survive. Making the pay floor 5k more a year isn't changing any of that. The people on minimum wage have to figure out a way to increase their income that's simple economics, the reality is any job paying minimum wage was never designed to be a living wage.

 

Why is $7.75 an hour a gross injustice of this world and $10.10 a practical living wage? Because $10.10 sounds good? You think someone can support a family on $10.10 without help?

 

Who are you to say it wouldn't make a difference?  That doesn't sound like a lot to someone who isn't living on minimum wage, but it's a lot to someone who is.  

Quote:There is a difference between a living wage and what you are proposing. A living wage allows you to pay a modest rent/utilities and eat/feed kids w/e.. It's not luxurious. 60k allows people to live pretty darned well in most of the country. 60k is a VERY good living in Jax and a reasonable one here in Portland.

 

The part I bolded above is faulty logic IMO though. Cost of living increased over the decades and profits have skyrocketed while minimum wage has not increased. The person making 6 bucks more in raises would be making even more money if minimum wage was higher assuming his starting salary was linked to a minimum wage job. 

 

Working in various jobs every time minimum wage was increased never once did I (who was making more then minimum wage in each job) get an increase. So that's not how it's worked in the past. I remember when the minimum wage went from $5.15 to $7.27 or something like that I was making almost $8 an hour, my pay didn't go up not one penny. All of the sudden the ground I had gained over 3 years on that job was for nothing, I was barely making $1 over minimum wage.

Quote:Who are you to say it wouldn't make a difference?  That doesn't sound like a lot to someone who isn't living on minimum wage, but it's a lot to someone who is.  

 

3 years I ago I was doing my best supporting a family of 6 on $10.18 an hour, I can tell you without outside help it is literally impossible.