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Excuse me for jumping into the middle of all this but I think for the most part, the education available in this country is fine. If the student wants the public education it is available to them.

 

I think the problem mostly lies with parents setting expectations for their children. There are way too many "hands off/lets be best friends" parents these days.

Quote:So give em 40k more and four more years to learn stuff they should learn in primary school then? Always need to spend more of other people's money. The problems in education are twofold: liberal educational standards and techniques and broken homes caused by liberal social policies.

 

common core and no child left behind are Republican programs that are just as damning as any other program. The problem isn't left/right or liberal/conservative, the problem is government.

Quote:Excuse me for jumping into the middle of all this but I think for the most part, the education available in this country is fine. If the student wants the public education it is available to them.

 

I think the problem mostly lies with parents setting expectations for their children. There are way too many "hands off/lets be best friends" parents these days.

 

I'm in agreement with this.  There are ways to make a college education much more affordable.  Kids in Jacksonville can go to a number of community colleges and then finish at UNF.  They can live at home and save money on expenses that way.

 

If you wanted to save money, you could.  Kids for a long time have taken out loans to pay for their daily living expenses, even I did to a point.  If you're going to do that, you better be ready to bite the bullet and pay up.

Quote:common core and no child left behind are Republican programs that are just as damning as any other program. The problem isn't left/right or liberal/conservative, the problem is government.

I need to read up more on common core. All I have seen is the weird and overly complicated way of teaching basic math. It should be noted various countries teach math differently. I have a Chinese engineer who appears to process math more similarly to common core. That oughta get some people even more russled up about it!

Quote:common core and no child left behind are Republican programs that are just as damning as any other program. The problem isn't left/right or liberal/conservative, the problem is government.

I agree that government interference is a problem.  I don't think government standards are, nor is government funding.  


I think every kid should have to learn a certain level of math, science, English and History (including civics, meaning that they should know the bill of rights, and they should know the amendments following them, as well as how our government works)  Standards are important.  But I think teachers need more control over their own classrooms.  


Lack of funding is a big problem.  Anytime people want to spend more on education you have people going "No, that's a hand out."  "You just want to take my money to pay for this stuff!"  (Military spending, which exceeds that of the next 10 biggest spenders combined on the other hand, that's perfectly fine.)  


Not enough importance is put on education.  And this goes for both political parties.  


Common Core is a bad idea, and I'm glad Virginia didn't accept it.  Because it truly goes against innovations in teaching.  And it ignores that all children don't learn the same.  


Government is only a piece of the problem.  It's the lack of care for education.  Being smart is seen as a bad thing.  

 

Quote:Excuse me for jumping into the middle of all this but I think for the most part, the education available in this country is fine. If the student wants the public education it is available to them.

 

I think the problem mostly lies with parents setting expectations for their children. There are way too many "hands off/lets be best friends" parents these days.

A lot of parents don't really care, but I don't think it's the 'let's be friends' attitude.  It's the "Who needs this stuff?" attitude.  It's the attitude of parents and non parents who say things like "I don't want to give those kids hand outs.  It'll teach them to be dependent on the government!" 


A lot of teachers have to buy their own supplies.  They're given a very small allotment, and then most of them go out of the way and spend their own money.  


Maybe it's because I've known a lot of great teachers that I feel this way.  But I feel that Education is woefully underfunded. I already hear some of the rebuttals "You want to raise taxes?"  How about no.  How about we cut funding in other places, and move it toward Education, because education can help reduce violent crime.  And to steal from Jon Stewart, some of these kids are going to wind up in the army some day, and they're going to be using all this high tech equipment we spend money on.  And that can be pretty complicated. 

I've never heard someone say they don't want to fund schools because it will teach kids dependence on government? I've argued and heard other people argue that you can't expect funding without government influencing curriculum. Also the only way to fund something via government is through taxation, I absolutely support de-funding numerous programs to increase education but the issue is also efficiency. We spend more then any other nation on education and yet we're woefully average in every measurement possible.

 

I believe we could triple the money spent on education and it would have little to no effect. The issues are regional and have to be addressed at the local level. Some of it's the approach, some of the problem is the application, some of the problem is the interpretation. Education more then anything isn't a one size fits all, and that's what happens with standardized test and big federal programs.

 

Localized education and we'd see an improvement, but you have to give power to the parents if you localized education, that way if the local school isn't getting it done for whatever reason that child and parent have an option of seeking other alternatives.

Quote:A lot of parents don't really care, but I don't think it's the 'let's be friends' attitude.  It's the "Who needs this stuff?" attitude.  It's the attitude of parents and non parents who say things like "I don't want to give those kids hand outs.  It'll teach them to be dependent on the government!" 


A lot of teachers have to buy their own supplies.  They're given a very small allotment, and then most of them go out of the way and spend their own money.  


Maybe it's because I've known a lot of great teachers that I feel this way.  But I feel that Education is woefully underfunded. I already hear some of the rebuttals "You want to raise taxes?"  How about no.  How about we cut funding in other places, and move it toward Education, because education can help reduce violent crime.  And to steal from Jon Stewart, some of these kids are going to wind up in the army some day, and they're going to be using all this high tech equipment we spend money on.  And that can be pretty complicated. 

 

Well I can agree with most of that, but most of what you're talking about there is a completely separate issue to me.

Quote:Excuse me for jumping into the middle of all this but I think for the most part, the education available in this country is fine. If the student wants the public education it is available to them.

 

I think the problem mostly lies with parents setting expectations for their children. There are way too many "hands off/lets be best friends" parents these days.

 

I don't think it's fine. I think it needs to be raised at a higher standard. I do agree with your 2nd point in that part of the problem are the students/their families themselves.

 

IMO, the problems we have in our educational system is as much institutional as it is a societal problem. Without both sides doing their part, it will be tough to implement whatever changes are needed.

Quote:I don't think it's fine. I think it needs to be raised at a higher standard. I do agree with your 2nd point in that part of the problem are the students/their families themselves.

 

IMO, the problems we have in our educational system is as much institutional as it is a societal problem. Without both sides doing their part, it will be tough to implement whatever changes are needed.

 

There is probably some merit to that. As with most things, it's not a 100% this or 100% that problem. I guess my point is that if our values on education were a higher priority culturally, then the education system itself would be less of a problem.

 

Still, I think that if a child wants it, they can receive all the education they can handle in 91% of public schools.

Quote: We spend more then any other nation on education and yet we're woefully average in every measurement possible.

 

As true as that is, the problem is that much of that money is being spent on the wealthiest students.  


And our funding has been going down, while other countries have been increasing it.  (And I've heard several people refer to early childhood programs as 'handouts')


 

Quote: 

In kindergarten through 12th grade, meanwhile, the U.S. posts middling test scores, dragged down by the high numbers of children living in poverty whose schools tend to receive lower revenues from property taxes. Teacher salaries also have not risen in real terms, holding steady between 2000 and 2011, according to the report.

<p style="font-size:15px;font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);">"In the 1960s and 70s, the U.S. was way ahead of any other country... but other countries have done a lot better at getting their resources where they will make the most difference," said Andreas Schleicher, an education policy adviser to the OECD.

<p style="font-size:15px;font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);">"The U.S. is one of the few that invests in a regressive way. Children who need (public funding) the most get the least of it," he said, referring to how public schools, colleges and universities are funded.

<p style="font-size:15px;font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);">At the K-12 level, many U.S. schools rely primarily on property taxes, so wealthier communities have far more to spend, even though low-income schools are eligible for special federal grants.

<p style="font-size:15px;font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);">http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/2...CN20130625

 

Quote:As true as that is, the problem is that much of that money is being spent on the wealthiest students.  


And our funding has been going down, while other countries have been increasing it.  (And I've heard several people refer to early childhood programs as 'handouts')


 

<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:georgia, 'times new roman', serif;font-size:15px;">http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/2...CN20130625

 

 

Clearly a funding problem...

 

Quote:Clearly a funding problem...

 

 

Yes, it is.  Most of the funding, as explained by my post... is going to wealthy schools.  But no, we shouldn't be giving money to poor kids.  Nope.  Gotta save it all for the people that we should really care about.  Corporations.

Quote:Yes, it is.  Most of the funding, as explained by my post... is going to wealthy schools.  But no, we shouldn't be giving money to poor kids.  Nope.  Gotta save it all for the people that we should really care about.  Corporations.

So its not funding, its allocation of funds. Thats a hugely significant difference.