Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:No what would be crazy is to try to push rookies with more rookies.

 

The cowboys have 3 first rounders picked over 4 drafts with only 1 picked in the top 10. The cowboys have used only 4 picks on the oline in 5 years. They let their guys develop and didn't panic and waste draft picks by redrafting the same position every other year.

 

The jags have too many holes to worry about replacing last years number 2 overall pick in next years draft.

I wouldn't be opposed to a draft full of O-line including a pass catching TE.  Draft big uglies early and often!

Quote:So it's acceptable in year 3 to say this team isn't competitive because they're to young still? To me that's not an acceptable argument next year, if we're to young that's Davids fault for not finding the right balance in three years between youth and experience. 

 

I don't think we as a fanbase put enough emphasis on how important good coaching is in developing talent...

 

The rookie excuse was acceptable untill december.  The last 4 games, most our rookies had plenty of experience and "practice" to know what they were doing...

 

I think "practice" has been our problem, especially on offense.  Our D started out terrible, but somehow we got significantly better over the year.  Our offense was stagnant if not worse as time went on...  

 

I'm not sure why this doesn't set off red flags for more people...

Quote:I don't think we as a fanbase put enough emphasis on how important good coaching is in developing talent...

 

The rookie excuse was acceptable untill december.  The last 4 games, most our rookies had plenty of experience and "practice" to know what they were doing...

 

I think "practice" has been our problem, especially on offense.  Our D started out terrible, but somehow we got significantly better over the year.  Our offense was stagnant if not worse as time went on...  

 

I'm not sure why this doesn't set off red flags for more people...

Hence, the reason Fisch should be shown the door.  Sooner rather than later.

Quote:No what would be crazy is to try to push rookies with more rookies.

 

The cowboys have 3 first rounders picked over 4 drafts with only 1 picked in the top 10. The cowboys have used only 4 picks on the oline in 5 years. They let their guys develop and didn't panic and waste draft picks by redrafting the same position every other year.

 

The jags have too many holes to worry about replacing last years number 2 overall pick in next years draft.

 

I disagree if we can get someone like Scherff in the 1st who can play LT and swing Joeckel who's a liablity at LT inside or to the RT position we're better off all the way around. Then grab someone like Erving in the 2nd who can play Tackle and Center then you have the ability to push Bowanko at Center and if he holds the position Erving can upgrade the RT position.

 

We're absolutely not set on the offensive line and it's a huge gamble to bet these guys are going to improve on their own next season. What if they don't? what if Joeckel is still struggling? 

 

Those decisions are what David is here for, either way if he brings in more talent or lets it sit and bet on the young guys developing it's on him.

 

Personally I know I wouldn't bet on that group getting better in the offseason, they are who they are and the depth isn't there at all. Sam Young is not a viable option. 

Quote:The difference is the guys the Cowboys drafted played well from day 1. (Shocking, I know, but sometimes players actually don't suck for their first two years). 

 

Quote:No what would be crazy is to try to push rookies with more rookies.

 

The cowboys have 3 first rounders picked over 4 drafts with only 1 picked in the top 10. The cowboys have used only 4 picks on the oline in 5 years. They let their guys develop and didn't panic and waste draft picks by redrafting the same position every other year.

 

The jags have too many holes to worry about replacing last years number 2 overall pick in next years draft.

 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">LT-- 1st round Draft (9th overall);  4 years in NFL

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">LG--undrafted free agent;  2 years in NFL

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">C--1st round (31st overall).  Cowboys traded back from 18 to 31 with the 49ers and picked up a 3rd rounder; 2 years in NFL

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">RG--1st round (16th overall).  Selected instead of Manziel as many had speculated. Rookie

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">RT--4th round.  The oldest O-lineman for the 'boys...  An 8 year vet.

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">1st round talent is important.  But not 100% required.  However, the point of how the cowboys did it was that they found the right pieces in the right spots.  It almost looks like it's best to acquire O-linemen in the late 1st or 2nd round...  

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Also, it's significant that the majority of thier linemen are in thier first 3 years in the league and were all 1st rounders.  Top 5 or even top 10 linemen don't seem to be a requirement.  But getting top notch linemen in the 2nd or late first round looks to be a good standard to go by.  

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Hopefully we can figure out a way to trade down and pick up an extra 2nd round pick...  Also, we will probably need to try again in free-agency to get some help on the line.

Quote:I don't think we as a fanbase put enough emphasis on how important good coaching is in developing talent...

 

The rookie excuse was acceptable untill december.  The last 4 games, most our rookies had plenty of experience and "practice" to know what they were doing...

 

I think "practice" has been our problem, especially on offense.  Our D started out terrible, but somehow we got significantly better over the year.  Our offense was stagnant if not worse as time went on...  

 

I'm not sure why this doesn't set off red flags for more people...

 

We could practice 2 a days for three straight years and that line is still going to give up pressure at a record setting pace. 

 

Practice had nothing to do with a rookie QB throwing twice as many INT's as TD's or the WR core dropping passes. Practice had nothing to do with Lewis stumbling over his own two feet and dropping passes, it had nothing to do with Gerhart going down at first contact (often behind the line of scrimage).

 

Was the coaching good, no. Was it the main cause of our offensive failures, I don't think so. It's an easy out to say we need better coaches, people have been saying that since Jack Del Rio, Dirk Koetter and so on. Talent was the problem this year, we didn't have the talent to execute even the simplest of X and O's.

Quote:The difference is the guys the Cowboys drafted played well from day 1. (Shocking, I know, but sometimes players actually don't suck for their first two years). 

The cowboys never put two rookies and two second year players on the line together at the same time. They developed players in an environment surrounded by vets.

Quote:We could practice 2 a days for three straight years and that line is still going to give up pressure at a record setting pace. 

 

Practice had nothing to do with a rookie QB throwing twice as many INT's as TD's or the WR core dropping passes. Practice had nothing to do with Lewis stumbling over his own two feet and dropping passes, it had nothing to do with Gerhart going down at first contact (often behind the line of scrimage).

 

Was the coaching good, no. Was it the main cause of our offensive failures, I don't think so. It's an easy out to say we need better coaches, people have been saying that since Jack Del Rio, Dirk Koetter and so on. Talent was the problem this year, we didn't have the talent to execute even the simplest of X and O's.

What is the saying?   Jimmies and Joes not X's and O's.

Quote:I wouldn't be opposed to a draft full of O-line including a pass catching TE.  Draft big uglies early and often!

Early and often doesn't apply to the oline. That is how you build a team with a bunch of high draft picks sitting on your bench while the rest of your squad has huge holes in the roster.

Quote:We could practice 2 a days for three straight years and that line is still going to give up pressure at a record setting pace. 

 

.....

 

With the coaches we have, you are correct.  I doubt a good football coach that knows how to teach fundamentals and how to properly execute would need 2 a days for 3 years to figure out the problems with this team.

 

I'm not being flip, either.  I'm 100% serious.  Do you think a coach worth his salt would allow the lack of pass protection to occur consistently throughout the year?  I don't.

 

I have more faith in proper coaching.  But you're right.  These coaches could have 100 years to try and get it right, but wouldn't be able to.  Because they are not good coaches, at least not at the NFL level.  It's just that simple, in my mind.

Quote:Early and often doesn't apply to the oline. That is how you build a team with a bunch of high draft picks sitting on your bench while the rest of your squad has huge holes in the roster.

 

Caldwells a needs drafter and the oline is our biggest need, don't be surprised if the draft is heavy on the offensive line. I honestly think he's going to target 2-3 olinemen, a pass catching TE and FS. 

I think if we can sign Iupati from SF and draft Brandon Scherff from Iowa then with Linder and Beadles and another year under the belt with Joeckel we should have a serviceable, if not great, offensive line.

 

I'm not sure about Wanko though, he may be a good center but I have not heard much. Lageman and others tend to think highly of Linder. When Pasztor comes back we should have some depth if Iupati and Scherff are on the roster.

 

Regards...................the Chiefjag

Quote:With the coaches we have, you are correct.  I doubt a good football coach that knows how to teach fundamentals and how to properly execute would need 2 a days for 3 years to figure out the problems with this team.

 

I'm not being flip, either.  I'm 100% serious.  Do you think a coach worth his salt would allow the lack of pass protection to occur consistently throughout the year?  I don't.

 

I have more faith in proper coaching.  But you're right.  These coaches could have 100 years to try and get it right, but wouldn't be able to.  Because they are not good coaches, at least not at the NFL level.  It's just that simple, in my mind.

 

If this was high school ball I could see that argument working, but these are guys that have been playing ball all their lives. They don't need to be taught fundamentals, they should know that coming in. 

 

Coaching at the NFL level is about management and game planing. I'll agree our coaching staff didn't play to our strengths many games, but that might be because we simply didn't have an offensive strength to play. 

Quote:Caldwells a needs drafter and the oline is our biggest need, don't be surprised if the draft is heavy on the offensive line. I honestly think he's going to target 2-3 olinemen, a pass catching TE and FS. 

I think this is true.  I won't be surprised if the first 3 picks are O-Line.  Although I think we go with one of the D-lineman in the 1st because of the injury to Marks.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see an O-line pick up in FA.

Quote:I disagree if we can get someone like Scherff in the 1st who can play LT and swing Joeckel who's a liablity at LT inside or to the RT position we're better off all the way around. Then grab someone like Erving in the 2nd who can play Tackle and Center then you have the ability to push Bowanko at Center and if he holds the position Erving can upgrade the RT position.

 

We're absolutely not set on the offensive line and it's a huge gamble to bet these guys are going to improve on their own next season. What if they don't? what if Joeckel is still struggling? 

 

Those decisions are what David is here for, either way if he brings in more talent or lets it sit and bet on the young guys developing it's on him.

 

Personally I know I wouldn't bet on that group getting better in the offseason, they are who they are and the depth isn't there at all. Sam Young is not a viable option. 

Scherff is no less of a gamble than drafting Joekel was. There is no guarantee that he can make the transition to the pros. For all we know, he could struggle more than Joekel.

 

The oline will be much better off with veterans. Year in and year out the oline generally has the most players in free agency because they are the most numerous starting position on the football field.

Quote:If this was high school ball I could see that argument working, but these are guys that have been playing ball all their lives. They don't need to be taught fundamentals, they should know that coming in. 

 

Coaching at the NFL level is about management and game planing. I'll agree our coaching staff didn't play to our strengths many games, but that might be because we simply didn't have an offensive strength to play. 

 

I don't know man...   think maybe fundamentals may have been the wrong term to use...

 

One play stands out in my mind...  Joekel recognized the blitzing LB, turned his head to watch him rush in at the snap, then proceeded to help out the LG, leaving BB5 wide open for a crushing sack.

 

That was indicative of the O-line all year.  They had no clue what was going on and what to do.  That to me is fundamentals.  Maybe there is a better term for it.  But the lack of awareness of what to do in any situation is all on coaching.  

 

And it's what was the prevelant issue on the offense all year long.

Quote:Scherff is no less of a gamble than drafting Joekel was. There is no guarantee that he can make the transition to the pros. For all we know, he could struggle more than Joekel.

 

The oline will be much better off with veterans. Year in and year out the oline generally has the most players in free agency because they are the most numerous starting position on the football field.

 

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013OT.php

 

in 2013 only 2 of the top 10 free agent Offensive Linemen hit the market. Not a single one that did change teams was an impact on their new team. History just shows getting an impact free agent Offensive linemen is next to impossible.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...ve-linemen

 

2014 was even worse, find me the impact starter?

 

When the dust settles I don't expect to many quality 2015 Offensiveline free agents to hit the market, hopefully we can find one but they best shot is in the draft.

Quote:Caldwells a needs drafter and the oline is our biggest need, don't be surprised if the draft is heavy on the offensive line. I honestly think he's going to target 2-3 olinemen, a pass catching TE and FS. 

 

I could also see this happening.  In the best case scenario it also involves us finding a sucker team to trade up, allowing us to pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick...

Quote:I don't know man...   think maybe fundamentals may have been the wrong term to use...

 

One play stands out in my mind...  Joekel recognized the blitzing LB, turned his head to watch him rush in at the snap, then proceeded to help out the LG, leaving BB5 wide open for a crushing sack.

 

That was indicative of the O-line all year.  They had no clue what was going on and what to do.  That to me is fundamentals.  Maybe there is a better term for it.  But the lack of awareness of what to do in any situation is all on coaching.  

 

And it's what was the prevelant issue on the offense all year long.

 

Fair evaluation, so the question is shouldn't the number 2 overall pick be able to make that play? 

Quote:So it's acceptable in year 3 to say this team isn't competitive because they're to young still? To me that's not an acceptable argument next year, if we're to young that's Davids fault for not finding the right balance in three years between youth and experience.

Half of these guys are going to be second year players... so you can count on that excuse being used