Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I found this interesting so I scanned through the condensed version just watching offensive snaps. Here's my count:

 

Bortles - out of 39 attempts had a "clean-ish" pocket 8 times by my count. 

 

 3 of those were looking to throw intermediate or deep. (not a designed quick pass) 

 

The other 5 were quick passes in which he was not hurried/pressured. That should be a higher number. 

 

 We know they weren't looking deep on the majority of the 31 remaining attempts - so we know that Bortles was frequently hurried or pressured on 3 step drop/ quick pass plays.  More than 20 of them.  That's not good. He did complete a few of these, and that bodes well, but this offense would be much more productive with better pass pro. 

 

 

There were many short pass attempts in which he was throwing off the back foot of the third step in his drop, or throwing awkwardly as he side-stepped pressure or throwing on the run trying to elude pressure. That stuff has to improve. 

 

Thanks for the info.  I haven't got to review a ton of plays yet.

 

Out of curiosoity...did you notice how many times pressure came through the actual O Line vs how many times through the TEs, RBs or FB?  I also noticed a few plays where I'd attribute the pressure to bad communication on the O Line (not giving them an excuse but it should be something they can improve).

Quote:Thanks for the info.  I haven't got to review a ton of plays yet.

 

Out of curiosoity...did you notice how many times pressure came through the actual O Line vs how many times through the TEs, RBs or FB?  I also noticed a few plays where I'd attribute the pressure to bad communication on the O Line (not giving them an excuse but it should be something they can improve).

Didn't make note of that. I know I saw at least 4 instances that were TE or RB issues. (even if they were just pushed back into the pocket) 

 

There were at least 3 times where someone came in unblocked - which obviously suggests a communication/identification breakdown.  Closer analysis probably makes both of those numbers go up. 

 

Rookie center + rookie QB =  this stuff is gonna' happen.  

 

Reasonable to think it can improve significantly next season. (remember neither of these rookie were supposed to be starters this year) 

Quote:Didn't make note of that. I know I saw at least 4 instances that were TE or RB issues. (even if they were just pushed back into the pocket) 

 

There were at least 3 times where someone came in unblocked - which obviously suggests a communication/identification breakdown.  Closer analysis probably makes both of those numbers go up. 

 

Rookie center + rookie QB =  this stuff is gonna' happen.  

 

Reasonable to think it can improve significantly next season. (remember neither of these rookie were supposed to be starters this year) 

 

Thanks...

 

Now be honest, watching Linder makes you smile right?  That dude is going to be great for us!

Quote:If you are dumb enough to believe these guys, then go ahead and continue to believe them.

 

You mean the people posting here?

Quote:people seem to equate "getting beat" to giving up a sack.  Watt was forcing Young to hold him, he forced Bortles to move around due to pressures.... just because he didn't get the sack doesn't mean he didn't affect the play.

 

Not to mention the offense had to call mostly quick plays to account for the pass rush.  we got shut down in the second half.  a lot of it had to do with the Texans pass rush... which Watt is a huge part of.

 

Watt is real good! No kidding.

 

Sorry if everyone is not buying into your narrative. 

 

I thought Bortles handled the pressure pretty well for a rookie. The guy can more around, thank god. After having to watch Henne be stiff, and Gabbert feel non-existent pressure ...

Quote:How much do the Jags pay you anyway?

 

Are your feelings hurt? 

 

Maybe you'll get that bike for Christmas!

Quote:Thanks...

 

Now be honest, watching Linder makes you smile right?  That dude is going to be great for us!

 

Absolutely.  A rare bright spot on the line. At least there's one solid piece, (though I suspect Joeckel will be fine next year.)

I really appreciate that Linder often "finishes strong" on his blocks.  He's got the necessary mean streak. 

 

There's a 3 yard run by Gerhart in the redzone in which he puts a safety and a LB on their butts. Love it. 

I think some of y'all are fogetting a key fact regarding the Jags. The OL coach (Yarno) is out because of cancer. I have no idea how he is doing, but he is not with the team and one of his assistants is carrying the weight. That means that our primary guy isn't planning blocking schemes, isn't coaching up the players...isn't doing what the line coach should do. Sure, Butkus has stepped up, but you are talking 10 years of experience compared to 26 years of experience. If/when Yarno comes back it ought to help with game-planning...and line communication. And let's face it...if the guy is out with a possibly lethal disease, you really can't in all fairness fire him and replace him. You just can't. this adds to the woes.

 

The line played ok in pass protection. Drops killed us. Watt got his plays...hell, the guy is being touted for MVP of the freaking league! He won't get it, but he is an awesome player. For those who think that the coaching staff is blowing smoke with their evaluation? Sure...you can tell far better than a guy who knows the blocking scheme and looks at it on an all 22 30 times. Sure...

 

But the lack of the actual OL coach is hurting just as much as pretty much anything else. 

 

Jim

Quote:Watt is real good! No kidding.


Sorry if everyone is not buying into your narrative.


I thought Bortles handled the pressure pretty well for a rookie. The guy can more around, thank god. After having to watch Henne be stiff, and Gabbert feel non-existent pressure ...

Its not MY narrative

Quote:Gus is on 1010xl right now --- 10am Tuesday

 

"Offensive Line did very well pass blocking"

 

confirmed by Jeff Lageman

 

... more to come

Lagemen is blind as a bad.  I guess it was my imagination that atleast a half dozen times I saw a free runner coming right at the QB.  This guys should stick to defense because his offense insight is horrible.

 

So Jeff, HOw did the oline do?

Quote:Lagemen is blind as a bad.  I guess it was my imagination that atleast a half dozen times I saw a free runner coming right at the QB.  This guys should stick to defense because his offense insight is horrible.

 

His worst mistakes are still 10x better than any "insight" you've ever "shared" with the board.

 

So, for those "half a dozen times" could you identify the player responsible and the assignment that was missed?

 

No, you couldn't.  You don't have the capacity.  Otherwise, you would have (rather than referring to it as your imagination.)  I suppose you got that much of it right.

 

In the NFL, the line, backs, and ends all together are responsible for protection.  As well as the center making the right reads and calls, and the QB making the right presnap reads.  So yeah, the NFL is just a little bit more complicated than saying I thought I saw some guys running free.

 

Getting back to real talk and not just hyperbole and conjecture...

 

What's frustrating about Joeckel is that he aced his matchups vs Watt.  Every single one.

 

Then, against a guy half as talented, gave up at least one sack and more hits/pressure.

 

There really wasn't that bad a game by anyone but Young.  I didn't expect much different.  They guy is a backup for a reason, and going up against the best rushing end since Bruce Smith or Reggie White.  Perhaps better by the end of his career.

Just watched BB and the line on every passing play on Game Rewind.

 

Honestly, there is a LOT of promise there.  Watt made his plays, the TE, RB and FB whiff on some blocks and there are some communication issues on the line.  However, there are genuinely many more times that BB had a decent pocket to throw from than I originally thought watching Sunday.

 

In all reality, I believe that Fisch is holding back the offense.  You can clearly see talent and potential there but Fisch has too many dud play designs and I also think he struggles stringing the right plays together from time to time.  I don't think Fisch is horrendous but I think a better OC would be further along at this point with this group.

 

I'm all for keeping Caldwell, I think he's bringing in the talent.  I'm also all for replacing Bradley and/or Fisch.  I think this team has bright potential ahead with the right coaching staff.

Quote:Lagemen is blind as a bad.  I guess it was my imagination that atleast a half dozen times I saw a free runner coming right at the QB.  This guys should stick to defense because his offense insight is horrible.

 

So Jeff, HOw did the oline do?

 

 

You are bound and determined to look childish and not bright. I'm here to report you're getting there!

 

Professionals give you information. You don't buy it. NYC4Jags goes into tremendous detail. You don't buy it. Heck even Jeremy provides information. You don't buy it.

 

And you probably wonder why no one takes you seriously. If it doesn't jibe with your pre-set blah, blah, blah, you don't buy it. 

Quote:His worst mistakes are still 10x better than any "insight" you've ever "shared" with the board.

 

So, for those "half a dozen times" could you identify the player responsible and the assignment that was missed?

 

No, you couldn't.  You don't have the capacity.  Otherwise, you would have (rather than referring to it as your imagination.)  I suppose you got that much of it right.

 

In the NFL, the line, backs, and ends all together are responsible for protection.  As well as the center making the right reads and calls, and the QB making the right presnap reads.  So yeah, the NFL is just a little bit more complicated than saying I thought I saw some guys running free.

 

Getting back to real talk and not just hyperbole and conjecture...

 

What's frustrating about Joeckel is that he aced his matchups vs Watt.  Every single one.

 

Then, against a guy half as talented, gave up at least one sack and more hits/pressure.

 

There really wasn't that bad a game by anyone but Young.  I didn't expect much different.  They guy is a backup for a reason, and going up against the best rushing end since Bruce Smith or Reggie White.  Perhaps better by the end of his career

I watched the game.  I saw free runners coming right at the QB.  In the second half they couldn't block the texans defensive line.  Hence why we got shut out in the second half.  Blake had no time to throw the ball almost the entire second half.  He often had less than 2 seconds in the pocket without a defender running right at him.  This has been a theme all year.

Quote:You are bound and determined to look childish and not bright. I'm here to report you're getting there!

 

Professionals give you information. You don't buy it. NYC4Jags goes into tremendous detail. You don't buy it. Heck even Jeremy provides information. You don't buy it.

 

And you probably wonder why no one takes you seriously. If it doesn't jibe with your pre-set blah, blah, blah, you don't buy it.

This line got mauled and hasn't provided solid pass protection in weeks.  What Professionals? Lagemen has looked foolish numerous times with his assessments., He is about as accurate as Woody Paige.  This line continues to get handled and thats why this team leads the league in sacks given.  Don't let the facts get in your way.   Most of the real professionals I listen too know this line is garbage and has OT/G at the top of our needs.

Quote:I watched the game.  I saw free runners coming right at the QB.  In the second half they couldn't block the texans defensive line.  Hence why we got shut out in the second half.  Blake had no time to throw the ball almost the entire second half.  He often had less than 2 seconds in the pocket without a defender running right at him.  This has been a theme all year.

 

I initially thought the same but after rewatching every pass play on Game Rewind I have to tell you that the pressures we saw (other than a whiff or 2 by Young and Joeckel) were because of M Lewis, Gerhart or Toa'ufo'uo getting beat on their blocks.  In fact, the plays we all saw where BB was pressured were genuinely the only bad plays.  The rest of the time BB had maybe not a perfect pocket but certainly a good enough pocket to be effective.  I'm super critical, ask anyone here, but the O Line did a decent job overall.

 

Here are a few examples from Sunday...

 

 

 



 

Our standards of well must be a lot lower than an average NFL team.

Quote:Gus is on 1010xl right now --- 10am Tuesday

 

"Offensive Line did very well pass blocking"

 

confirmed by Jeff Lageman

 

... more to come

In the first half I thought Sam did good against Watt, and they even moved him around to the other side to be more effective... and then back again...

Fisch tried to avoid Watt and when it was to this side it was D-Rob in the wildcat (stupid play)...

 

Oline though allowed too much pressure especially in the 2nd Half.

too many hits on Bortles...

 



This might even been when he hurt his shoulder....

Not sure what game Gus & Lageman were at but from the looks of their comments, it wasn't at Sunday's game. On another note, it's "official"....the Jaguars are now dead last in the NFL Power rankings, The good news is that they have nowhere else to go but up. I think all of us are confident that will happen. The only question is when and will it be fast enough to suit our taste?

 

But to say that the OL looked good on Sunday troubles me. It's one thing to be an optimistic head coach. It's entirely another to be living in a dream world by not facing the reality of what is going on around you. The OL sucked on Sunday just like they have for a large majority of the time every past Sunday before this. All the optimism in the world will not change this FACT!

Quote:Apparently Linder and Joekel gave the business to Watt. He was 0-17 against them in passing situations. I wonder if it was the continuity of the line that allowed pressure on BB.


Still think we have w problem though. I can't believe that they played well. They just didn't play horrid like last week.

 

That stat is a little deceptive. They only count as a "win" when Watt personally gets a stat, regardless of whether or not Bortles got off a clean throw. It's certainly possible to slow Watt down with a double or triple-team, but it doesn't do great things for the QB's protection against everyone else.

 

That said, Watt didn't have a good game (compared to his usual). Linder appears to have fared quite well.