Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:There's some hurt females up in this thread...

I thought I was being pretty clever myself.


Hurt? I'm not quite sure why I should be.

Quote: Why you mad bro?



If the offense stuck with the hurry up from the start of the game we would have a better chance against the Texans.

I agree with this. Right now this is BB strength and they should stick to it. They should also let the guy throw tge ball longer than 5 yards as well. I know some of this is the Oline, but Fisch is calling plays that are too safe.

Quote:His level of celebration was equivalent to when a team is down big late in a game and a D Linemen gets a sack and celebrates like he did something special.

 

Good for him getting a sack but his team is getting blown out, it's nothing special and he looks foolish.

 

Good for the Jags getting a win, the 2nd of the season, the 6th of GB's career in 28 total games as an NFL head coach.  It's all about perspective...some people see the bigger picture, some don't.

 

You still trying trying this one?

Quote:I read several threads and posts bashing our Head Coach, and I understand why that has occured with only 2 wins this season.   The thing is I think he's a good coach with potential to be a fantastic head coach with record to prove it.  He needs time to acheive this goal, and he has great character traits.  He has integrity, guts to make the tough calls, knowledge, enthusaism, and he's a players coach.  The players work hard even to the last whistle when the team knows that they have no chance of making the playoffs.  That kind of drive and effort from young guys will pay off in the future.

If we are 2-10 next season I'll create a thread stating how blind I was, but I promise you it wont be needed as this team will at least be 8-8 next year.

 

What have you seen so far that makes you believe that next year the Jags will "be at least 8-8"?

 

From what I have seen I just don't see 8-8 next year, improvement, hopefully yes, but 8-8 improvement, just don't see that.

 

We don't really know how the next 4 games will turn out either.

 

Of course I hope I am wrong and you are right, but I try to be somewhat realistic.

 

I will say that if Gus does find a way to go at least 8-8 next year, he will be mentioned as a coach of the year candidate, that, I'm sure of.

 

He probably would not win it, but he would certainly get his name mentioned.

Quote:Every thing I read or hear about Gus, is that people love him.  The players love to play for him.

 

Yes, I have heard that also. Nearly everyone seems to love Gus and his extremely positive attitude.

 

The players, the media, the fans, all of them.

 

Gus has to be one of the most loved head coaches to be 6-22 in the history of the NFL.

 

All of that is great, but at some point in the near future, Gus is going to have to start winning football games.

 

Last Sunday was a great start, well, a great finish anyway, let's hope that's something Gus and the team can build on going forward.

Quote:Actually I can use my own eyeballs to see the team improve. I don't need the validation of a win loss record in the second year of a rebuild to know which way this team is headed. I can see it for myself. It seems you can't, as evidenced by your idea that the Giants "imploded" on themselves. Lol. Eli didn't even throw a pick that game. Are you kidding me? The Jags D punched the Giants in the mouth. Everything they got, they took from the Giants. Next time try watching the game.

 

Agreed completely!  This is a point I've been trying to hammer home to the people who think the win/loss record is the only indication of how a team is progressing.  The win/loss record is ultimately the vindication and it's why we play the game and ultimately getting to the championship is what we're seeking, but that doesn't mean we can't measure progress from the standpoint of how the team is playing.  This defense has made serious strides this year.  They've still got some holes to fill but I love how the young guys are playing great (Colvin's going to awesome!) and I expect the offense to make similar strides in the next two years.  Let's put it this way, in Gene Smith's last couple of years, I had *no* sense of any progress or improvement.  With Caldwell and Gus, I get a completely different sense even though it's not showing in the final results yet.  It will.

Quote:What have you seen so far that makes you believe that next year the Jags will "be at least 8-8"?

 

From what I have seen I just don't see 8-8 next year, improvement, hopefully yes, but 8-8 improvement, just don't see that.

 

We don't really know how the next 4 games will turn out either.

 

Of course I hope I am wrong and you are right, but I try to be somewhat realistic.

 

I will say that if Gus does find a way to go at least 8-8 next year, he will be mentioned as a coach of the year candidate, that, I'm sure of.

 

He probably would not win it, but he would certainly get his name mentioned.

 

Being realistic means that we understand the Jaguars play in the NFL.  A league that is focused on making sure the passing game is very easy to be successfull in.  Explosive passing plays is the push of every rule that hinders the defense.  Because of this teams move the ball and score often.

 

That's the reality.

 

Our reality is that we average 13 points per game on the offense (stat provided by the CBS telecast on Sunday).  This average was not helped by the 12 points the offense put up this Sunday against the Giants.

 

The only way we ever really see improvement and start winning is if we begin to average 23/24 points per game.  If we only average 13-18 points per game, we'll always suck.  It's just the way it goes.

 

So for next year, in order to see a huge leap, BB5 will have to become exponentially better and have much better pass protection.  And the OC's philosophy and playcalling will also have to get exponentially better.  

 

Without these things, expect a 4 - 6 win season. 

 

I know, I know...  Obvious post is obvious...  But it seems like some folks are expecting year 3 to be this huge turn-around without realizing exactly what it would entail for it to happen.  Our D isn't the Ravens, and they are not going to be winning us game at a SB caliber level.  The offense has to step up big time next year.  Not sure exactly how that will happen with the current state of affairs as we see them.  Even with increased pass protection, defenses know what's coming and alot of the plays we run are easily stopped.  

Im still all for giving Gus more time but I do fall under the group that has lost faith in what our Offense has been doing. I hope they do better in the future.

Quote:Im still all for giving Gus more time but I do fall under the group that has lost faith in what our Offense has been doing. I hope they do better in the future.

 

I understand that opinion.  Looking forward to seeing that opinion change with another draft and another year in the system for some of the skill players.

Quote:Im still all for giving Gus more time but I do fall under the group that has lost faith in what our Offense has been doing. I hope they do better in the future.

 

I hear ya. 

 

I too am fine with Gus coming back, it's pretty much inevitable considering how well our D is playing.  But the offense is the deficiency.

 

On the positive side, he have a slashing type RB that can be explosive and dangerous.  We have a great possession receiver in Hurns, a speedster in Lee, and a potential #1 in AR-15...  We have the weapons.  

 

But I still don't see us using the middle of the field at all.  When we run our standard offense, we are predictable.  Run, run, pass...  We have headscratching plays that we run way too often...  As I mentioned before, there's this one formation that Fish fancies where we have no receivers on one half of the field and we overload the other half of the field.  We ran this play at least 6 times on Sunday (once in the red zone) with absolutely no positive results.  It's a stupid formation, but for some reason, Fish loves it...  

 

These are signs of an OC that has a bad philosophy, a bad scheme, and bad playcalls.  Yes the Oline is a weakness of ours.  But so is the OC at this point in time, in my opinion.

Quote:I understand that opinion.  Looking forward to seeing that opinion change with another draft and another year in the system for some of the skill players.

I do totally understand the rookies and lack of experience. I know some people are "sick" of hearing that and such but I dont blame the players, I just really dont like the play calling. Once that changes I believe we get better. As well as this coming draft and FA Im super excited. I didnt have high hopes this year to start with so I think thats why Im not as upset as others.

Quote:I understand that opinion.  Looking forward to seeing that opinion change with another draft and another year in the system for some of the skill players.

 

Hurns, Lee, AR-15 (prior to injury), and Shoelace are our skill players that are the future.  They are all young and have figured it out.  I know people like to think of the "rookie" excuse as a crutch to allow them to excuse poor performance.  

 

But be honest, I just named those players, and they are killing it.  They are the offense and all performed well on Sunday.

 

You know what's holding us back?  The o-line's inability to protect in the passing game.  BB5's  pre-snap recognition of blitz pressure and 1 on 1 coverage.  And the horrible offensive formations and playcalling that the OC is placing our players in.

 

The o-line needs helps from Caldwell.  

 

BB5 needs a better QB coach/OC to help him progress.  At this point he's still no better at pre-snap recognition than he was in week 4 when he started.  

 

And Fish either needs to get his head out of his backside or he needs to be replaced....   If Fish starts calling plays like we were running when down 21-0 he may just become a successfull OC.  But iif he continues to run a stagnant predictable offense and we're not seeing BB5 get better pre-snap, he's got to go.

Quote:Hurns, Lee, AR-15 (prior to injury), and Shoelace are our skill players that are the future.  They are all young and have figured it out.  I know people like to think of the "rookie" excuse as a crutch to allow them to excuse poor performance.  

 

But be honest, I just named those players, and they are killing it.  They are the offense and all performed well on Sunday.

 

You know what's holding us back?  The o-line's inability to protect in the passing game.  BB5's  pre-snap recognition of blitz pressure and 1 on 1 coverage.  And the horrible offensive formations and playcalling that the OC is placing our players in.

 

The o-line needs helps from Caldwell.  

 

BB5 needs a better QB coach/OC to help him progress.  At this point he's still no better at pre-snap recognition than he was in week 4 when he started.  

 

And Fish either needs to get his head out of his backside or he needs to be replaced....   If Fish starts calling plays like we were running when down 21-0 he may just become a successfull OC.  But iif he continues to run a stagnant predictable offense and we're not seeing BB5 get better pre-snap, he's got to go.

 

Can't disagree, I think the OL needs either more experience or more talent or both.  QB needs a good, consistent pocket to operate in.  I think Bortles will make the OL look better as he gets some experience himself.  I am not as down on our OC as you are but I think he needs to improve as much as anyone with some of the play calling.  Sometimes he seems scared to succeed.  

Quote:Being realistic means that we understand the Jaguars play in the NFL.  A league that is focused on making sure the passing game is very easy to be successfull in.  Explosive passing plays is the push of every rule that hinders the defense.  Because of this teams move the ball and score often.

 

That's the reality.

 

Our reality is that we average 13 points per game on the offense (stat provided by the CBS telecast on Sunday).  This average was not helped by the 12 points the offense put up this Sunday against the Giants.

 

The only way we ever really see improvement and start winning is if we begin to average 23/24 points per game.  If we only average 13-18 points per game, we'll always suck.  It's just the way it goes.

 

So for next year, in order to see a huge leap, BB5 will have to become exponentially better and have much better pass protection.  And the OC's philosophy and playcalling will also have to get exponentially better.  

 

Without these things, expect a 4 - 6 win season. 

 

I know, I know...  Obvious post is obvious...  But it seems like some folks are expecting year 3 to be this huge turn-around without realizing exactly what it would entail for it to happen.  Our D isn't the Ravens, and they are not going to be winning us game at a SB caliber level.  The offense has to step up big time next year.  Not sure exactly how that will happen with the current state of affairs as we see them.  Even with increased pass protection, defenses know what's coming and alot of the plays we run are easily stopped.  

 

There's no doubt that the Jags 13 points per game average on offense is absolutely pathetic.

 

That's barely, and I mean just barely, over a FG per qtr, and that's just awful, especially in today's NFL which favors the offense.

 

I know the offense is very young, but you are not going to be in many games averaging about a FG per quarter, much less win many of them.

 

The offense simply must make big strides next season or it's just going to be more of the same thing we are seeing this season.

 

While I would love to see it, I think expecting this team to win 8 games or more next season is asking too much, at least from what I have seen this season.

 

I would really like to see some SOLID progress in the last 4 games of the season, have an above average offseason and get off to a better start then the previous 2 seasons.

 

I don't think that is asking too much.

So what's the timeline for Gus? Honestly, is it 5 years? If that's the case, will fans be satisfied with sub .500 records the next couple of years?


I give him until next year. 3 years in a system is long enough to turn things around. If he is exactly where he is this time next year at 2-10, would it be fair to give him the axe?


I'm just trying to figure out the mentality here. I'm not an instant gratification kind of guy, but like I said earlier, besides the DLine this team is no different than last year. It's time to put up or shut up. No more moral victories in jacksonville, winning should be the standard.

Quote:So what's the timeline for Gus? Honestly, is it 5 years? If that's the case, will fans be satisfied with sub .500 records the next couple of years?


I give him until next year. 3 years in a system is long enough to turn things around. If he is exactly where he is this time next year at 2-10, would it be fair to give him the axe?


I'm just trying to figure out the mentality here. I'm not an instant gratification kind of guy, but like I said earlier, besides the DLine this team is no different than last year. It's time to put up or shut up. No more moral victories in jacksonville, winning should be the standard.

If this team is 2-10 at this time next year, he should be fired before the season is over. Not going to even come close to happening tho.

Quote:So what's the timeline for Gus? Honestly, is it 5 years? If that's the case, will fans be satisfied with sub .500 records the next couple of years?


I give him until next year. 3 years in a system is long enough to turn things around. If he is exactly where he is this time next year at 2-10, would it be fair to give him the axe?

 

Im pretty sure Ive replied to you before, not like targeting you or anything but my answer would be No on 5 years if he fails to give us improvement next season. I do think we will improve next year, the draft and FA should be big for us. On top of all our rookies and first year/very young guys getting basically a full year to figure things out. If at this time next season we are some how 2-10 I will be very scared tho.

 

I'd be fine with 500 next season, I personally still dont believe we are playoff winning team still next season but in the NFL you never know...

 

I do believe in this build, I like that it is a total rebuild and I love that we are seeing pieces and some are seemingly clicking(Drob/AR15/Marks/ect) just keep building and I will then start expecting more.

 

But my big issue with Fisch  so far.

Quote:So what's the timeline for Gus? Honestly, is it 5 years? If that's the case, will fans be satisfied with sub .500 records the next couple of years?


I give him until next year. 3 years in a system is long enough to turn things around. If he is exactly where he is this time next year at 2-10, would it be fair to give him the axe?


I'm just trying to figure out the mentality here. I'm not an instant gratification kind of guy, but like I said earlier, besides the DLine this team is no different than last year. It's time to put up or shut up. No more moral victories in jacksonville, winning should be the standard.

 

The timeline? That's a good question.

 

I guess ultimately it's up to Khan and Dave.

 

I do get the feeling that because of the way Gus is, it's going to be a hard decision to let him go if that's what they decide to do.

 

Like everyone else, I like Gus, but ultimately being a HC is about wins and losses and making the playoffs and the Jags are severely lacking in the wins and making the playoffs category and way overachieving in the losses dept.and that will have to change.

 

The AFCS is a pretty weak division and Gus should have the Jags in the hunt for the division in December.

Quote:If this team is 2-10 at this time next year, he should be fired before the season is over. Not going to even come close to happening tho.

 

Yeah, pay no attention to the last 2 seasons 1-9 starts under the Gus bus.

Quote:Im pretty sure Ive replied to you before, not like targeting you or anything but my answer would be No on 5 years if he fails to give us improvement next season. I do think we will improve next year, the draft and FA should be big for us. On top of all our rookies and first year/very young guys getting basically a full year to figure things out. If at this time next season we are some how 2-10 I will be very scared tho.


I'd be fine with 500 next season, I personally still dont believe we are playoff winning team still next season but in the NFL you never know...


I do believe in this build, I like that it is a total rebuild and I love that we are seeing pieces and some are seemingly clicking(Drob/AR15/Marks/ect) just keep building and I will then start expecting more.


But my big issue with Fisch so far.

I Agree with that. Especially Fisch. He's been a dud. Can't wait for him to be replaced. Just don't want to happen to BB as Gabbert. Too many coordinators.