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Quote:Congratulations I guess? Must have been too exhausted from that fight to complain about it having been used at the border already, and totes not #BecauseTrump.

Good lord.


Wall won't ever happen so this conversation is pointless.

Quote:Good lord.

Wall won't ever happen so this conversation is pointless.

Kind like Hillary was gonna win in the biggest, most slip-slidiest landslide in the history of landslides? Keep making predictions, eventually you'll get one right! :thumbsup:

Quote:Kind like Hillary was gonna win in the biggest, most slip-slidiest landslide in the history of landslides? Keep making predictions, eventually you'll get one right! :thumbsup:

I see you absolutely can't stand not having last word! There are treatments for that behavior issue.

Quote:I see you absolutely can't stand not having last word! There are treatments for that behavior issue.

I'm sure you know all about needing special "treatment" for your issues.

Quote:No. Actually enforcing the existing laws would suffice. Something the sitting party didn't allow for the past 8 years.


These illegal immigrants have been having a field day for almost a decade. Libs won't even call them what they are. They choose a niiiiiice term like "undocumented immigrant" to sound PC. They are in fact illegal aliens. They are citizens of a foreign country who came to the US illegally. People can immigrate here legally, and it will be documented every single time. That's what makes that term so laughable.

Why do you pretend this is an "Obama" issue. Illegal immigration slightly declined under him. Where's your outrage at W, Clinton, HW and Reagan for not doing much to slow the steady influx of illegal immigration?

Quote:Tunnels take a long time to dig and are easy to find and destroy. It's the unwillingness of the current administration to fight the illegal trafficking that allows this to succeed.

So easy to find and destroy that hundreds exist. The current administration was unwilling to find and destroy them? How about the previous administrations? How'd they fare? This has the potential to drain our coffers like Iraq and it's a flawed plan. You really think a wall over a thousand miles long can't be overcome by a tunnel or a ladder? That we are going to have people patrolling thousands of miles of our border looking for small groups of people who don't wanna be seen? You're being sold a pipe dream.

Quote:So easy to find and destroy that hundreds exist. The current administration was unwilling to find and destroy them? How about the previous administrations? How'd they fare? This has the potential to drain our coffers like Iraq and it's a flawed plan. You really think a wall over a thousand miles long can't be overcome by a tunnel or a ladder? That we are going to have people patrolling thousands of miles of our border looking for small groups of people who don't wanna be seen? You're being sold a pipe dream.

 

I agree that the Bush administration was also unwilling to protect the border.


 

The border wall can be patrolled by drones, we don't need thousands of people. The video can be scanned electronically for possible tunneling activity, with a few humans to check anything the computer marks suspicious. This is all technology that has only been available for about ten years. There is an annual expense here, but it isn't as high as the border patrol we already pay. The wall itself, whether or not Mexico pays for it, is a one-time expense plus nominal maintenance (if it's done right, but since it's government ...).


 

A ladder is another case where you have to get close to put one up, and destroying it is easy. A wall (or good double fence) will not prevent everyone from entering, but one has to have significant resources to get past a physical barrier. Most of those invading the US couldn't afford it. It would have kept out 99% of those who illegally crossed the border in the past.


 

Digging a tunnel takes more that a small number of people. Those trafficking tunnels are long, you can't just start a tunnel two feet from the fence and expect no one to notice. Sub sonic scanning from the drones would locate a tunnel long before it's completed.

Quote:I agree that the Bush administration was also unwilling to protect the border.


The border wall can be patrolled by drones, we don't need thousands of people. The video can be scanned electronically for possible tunneling activity, with a few humans to check anything the computer marks suspicious. This is all technology that has only been available for about ten years. There is an annual expense here, but it isn't as high as the border patrol we already pay. The wall itself, whether or not Mexico pays for it, is a one-time expense plus nominal maintenance (if it's done right, but since it's government ...).


A ladder is another case where you have to get close to put one up, and destroying it is easy. A wall (or good double fence) will not prevent everyone from entering, but one has to have significant resources to get past a physical barrier. Most of those invading the US couldn't afford it. It would have kept out 99% of those who illegally crossed the border in the past.


Digging a tunnel takes more that a small number of people. Those trafficking tunnels are long, you can't just start a tunnel two feet from the fence and expect no one to notice. Sub sonic scanning from the drones would locate a tunnel long before it's completed.

So you want to patrol thousands of miles of our border with drones? Endlessly, for all time. How do you think the people who own private property along over half our border will like that? (You don't care). You want to do subsonic scanning over thousands of miles looking for three to four foot wide anomalies indicating a possible tunnel. How much do you think that would cost in man hours alone to identify and investigate? A long ladder is suddenly "significant resources"? It must be hard to come by rope in Mexico too. You want to spend billions on something you yourself admit will not prevent everyone from coming over. And spend God knows how much more annually for all time to drone patrol and sub sonically scan thousands of miles of land. Great plan. Mexicans won't wanna come here because we will be broke before long. Ten billion dollars on a [BLEEP] wall. If Congress allows the money to be fronted, I'll expect your utter lack of outrage when companies with business ties to Trump are awarded the contract to build the biggest waste of money in our nation's history.

If you really want to fix illegal immigration, end the war on drugs.  That'll save money.  


But conservatives once again show they don't care about cutting spending.  They like spending money, so long as it's on their pet projects.  So long as it doesn't give someone healthcare, or food, or education... they're perfectly okay with it.

You are making numerous disconnected points. Paragraphs are your friend.


 

Quote:So you want to patrol thousands of miles of our border with drones? Endlessly, for all time. How do you think the people who own private property along over half our border will like that? (You don't care). 

 

If I were a rancher on the border I'd be happy if the US government prevented thousands of illegal aliens from stomping through my fields.


 

Quote:You want to do subsonic scanning over thousands of miles looking for three to four foot wide anomalies indicating a possible tunnel. How much do you think that would cost in man hours alone to identify and investigate?

 

Very few man hours. Computers sort through the data and mark anomalies. It would take maybe six people (two per shift) to check the anomalies and sort the real tunnels from the false positives.


 

Quote:A long ladder is suddenly "significant resources"? It must be hard to come by rope in Mexico too.

 

That has to be carried to the wall, meaning you'd need a truck, and a driver to take it back since it couldn't be carried over the wall. You'd need a means of transportation on the US side, or you'd have a long walk carrying whatever supplies you'd need to get to a safe hideout. Right now the same truck carries illegals the whole way. And this assumes that the drone doesn't spot you before you get to the hideout. That's a lot of risk for someone to take.


 

Quote:You want to spend billions on something you yourself admit will not prevent everyone from coming over. And spend God knows how much more annually for all time to drone patrol and sub sonically scan thousands of miles of land. Great plan....  Ten billion dollars on a [BAD WORD REMOVED] wall. If Congress allows the money to be fronted, I'll expect your utter lack of outrage when companies with business ties to Trump are awarded the contract to build the biggest waste of money in our nation's history.

 

Even assuming Mexico doesn't pay for it, $10 billion is a drop in the federal bucket. It would be a one-time expense. Heck, the Department of Energy wastes more than that every single year. It would be worth it if it only kept half the invaders from entering the US, since illegals cost $4.8 billion each year just in uncompensated medical costs. The drone scans would probably add another $10 billion up front, plus less than $1 billion annually. Defending the border from foreign invasion is a valid DOD ($600B annually) task.


 

As far as which company gets the contract, I don't care if it's "Trump Construction" or "Joe's Discount Wall Builders" as long as gets done well, on time, and within budget. That's my opinion on any project the government starts under any president. Given that it's a US government project, I'm sure that no matter who they hire it will end up shoddy, taking twice the time, and twice the original budget (see my link on the F-35 above).


 


 


Discouraging illegals by economic means was the Obama strategy. Destroy the economy so the Mexicans won't want to come here; at least not the productive workers looking for jobs. The criminals and those looking for handouts still came over these last eight years.

Quote:If you really want to fix illegal immigration, end the war on drugs.  That'll save money.  


But conservatives once again show they don't care about cutting spending.  They like spending money, so long as it's on their pet projects.  So long as it doesn't give someone healthcare, or food, or education... they're perfectly okay with it.

 

Most conservatives agree that ending the war on drugs is a good thing. It's the establishment politicians of both parties who are against that. Even better, it would have a huge impact in reducing the murder rate, since a large part of that is turf battles between drug dealers.


Spending on the wall is a one time expense. Providing healthcare, education, and food to illegals never ends.

Quote:If I were a rancher on the border I'd be happy if the US government prevented thousands of illegal aliens from stomping through my fields.



Very few man hours. Computers sort through the data and mark anomalies. It would take maybe six people (two per shift) to check the anomalies and sort the real tunnels from the false positives.



That has to be carried to the wall, meaning you'd need a truck, and a driver to take it back since it couldn't be carried over the wall. You'd need a means of transportation on the US side, or you'd have a long walk carrying whatever supplies you'd need to get to a safe hideout. Right now the same truck carries illegals the whole way. And this assumes that the drone doesn't spot you before you get to the hideout. That's a lot of risk for someone to take.



Even assuming Mexico doesn't pay for it, $10 billion is a drop in the federal bucket. It would be a one-time expense. Heck, the Department of Energy wastes more than that every single year. It would be worth it if it only kept half the invaders from entering the US, since illegals cost $4.8 billion each year just in uncompensated medical costs. The drone scans would probably add another $10 billion up front, plus less than $1 billion annually. Defending the border from foreign invasion is a valid DOD ($600B annually) task.


As far as which company gets the contract, I don't care if it's "Trump Construction" or "Joe's Discount Wall Builders" as long as gets done well, on time, and within budget. That's my opinion on any project the government starts under any president. Given that it's a US government project, I'm sure that no matter who they hire it will end up shoddy, taking twice the time, and twice the original budget (see my link on the F-35 above).




Discouraging illegals by economic means was the Obama strategy. Destroy the economy so the Mexicans won't want to come here; at least not the productive workers looking for jobs. The criminals and those looking for handouts still came over these last eight years.

You are delusional.


Most people buy private property to not have pipelines run through it or drones flying over it. Nice to know you're cool with Big Brother doing whatever it wants on your property.


Your amateurish take on how people get across our border illegally is as ridiculous as your comments on how tens of billions of dollars are just a "drop in the federal bucket". All for a solution that won't work.


You think it's just computers and a few man hours to locate and destroy tunnels? The cartels applaud your naivete. And you don't care that Trump would likely use government dollars to line the pockets of his cronies (you probably didn't care when the last Republican president did the same thing either) fo a flawed solution to a problem tens of billions of dollars won't fix.

Quote:You are delusional.


Most people buy private property to not have pipelines run through it or drones flying over it. Nice to know you're cool with Big Brother doing whatever it wants on your property.


Your amateurish
take on how people get across our border illegally is as ridiculous as your comments on how tens of billions of dollars are just a "drop in the federal bucket". All for a solution that won't work
.


You think it's just computers and a few man hours to locate and destroy tunnels? The cartels applaud your naivete
. And you don't care that Trump would likely use government dollars to line the pockets of his cronies (you probably didn't care when the last Republican president did the same thing either) fo a flawed solution to a problem tens of billions of dollars won't fix.

 

You are right, I am not a professional. Based on your claimed expertise in these highlighted comments, I guess we know what your job is.


 

As far as tens of billions of dollars, it is a drop in the annual defense budget, and most of that is a one-time expense. Defending the border should be DOD's primary job.

That's a DHS responsibility. You don't need to be a professional to read a little and watch documentaries about activities on our southern border. People less intelligent and informed than you will be able to get past that wall. And the tens of billions you are so quick to part with could be used on countless other initiatives which would benefit the average American. Unless funding for this is coming straight out of corporate welfare tax break loopholes being closed, this is dumb with a capital D(rumpf).

When I hear talk of this mexican wall I just imagine the wall in game of thrones.


Mexicans probably won't have giants though.

A wall won't work.

Quote:If you really want to fix illegal immigration, end the war on drugs.  That'll save money.  


But conservatives once again show they don't care about cutting spending.  They like spending money, so long as it's on their pet projects.  So long as it doesn't give someone healthcare, or food, or education... they're perfectly okay with it.

 

 Nah, the best way is to start executing them as an invading army. Line them up and give them the firing squad. Leave the bodies on the border.

 

Then start rounding up the people who employ them and shoot them too.

Quote:A wall won't work.

 

Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt he who is doing it.

Quote:Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt he who is doing it.

Man who says he can do it, should keep his hand out of my pocket and have Mexico reimburse him personally.