Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Quote the post in which i said he played well in his playoff game.

You haven`t out right said it but why argue with me about him folding like a wet paper bag if you agreed that it was a poor performance.

Quote:theres not much to suggest who has more upside, id say its equal.


You said theres *plenty* of options in FA, weve found *one* who might not even hit the market, and might not even want to sign here. So really we dont have much to go on with this either.

There are plenty of options you just threw out a bunch of rules to exclude any one who doesn`t fit the "limited snaps" non-since your on about.

 

Your the only one who thinks there`s not enough tape to point to what type of player Macarron is and I think there is more then enough to suggest that he is nothing more then a run of the mill game manager.

Quote:You haven`t out right said it but why argue with me about him folding like a wet paper bag if you agreed that it was a poor performance.

Why argue it? Because you were wrong lol


It had nothing to do with the rest of the performance, he played a bad game. But you said he folded when asked to win, he did the opposite. It wasnt especially impressive nor did it make his performance as a whole good, it was literally just a piece of evidence that invalidated your point. Thats it, nothing more.

Quote:There are plenty of options you just threw out a bunch of rules to exclude any one who doesn`t fit the "limited snaps" non-since your on about.


Your the only one who thinks there`s not enough tape to point to what type of player Macarron is and I think there is more then enough to suggest that he is nothing more then a run of the mill game manager.

I didnt "throw out a bunch of rules". The basis for AJ is that hes an unknown commodity. If you tell me theres plenty of options just like him in FA i have to assume that includes other unknown commodities, but when we looked at the list we found one guy that we could safely decide that he had enough upside to warrant being brought in. But again, FAs have a choice in where they go and impending FAs dont always hit the market, but a trade is a guarantee that comes at a specific cost. Thats the point.

Well A.J. is a great backup QB. Just need to find a way out of the shadow of Andy Dalton in Cincy!

Quote:I didnt "throw out a bunch of rules". The basis for AJ is that hes an unknown commodity. If you tell me theres plenty of options just like him in FA i have to assume that includes other unknown commodities, but when we looked at the list we found one guy that we could safely decide that he had enough upside to warrant being brought in. But again, FAs have a choice in where they go and impending FAs dont always hit the market, but a trade is a guarantee that comes at a specific cost. Thats the point.

Matt McGloin, Matt Cassel, Brian Hoyer, Mike Glennon, and Kellen Moore are all guy with a similar skill set to Mccarron.

Quote:Matt McGloin, Matt Cassel, Brian Hoyer, Mike Glennon, and Kellen Moore are all guy with a similar skill set to Mccarron.

Kellen Moores arm is by far the weakest in the league, if you actually try to argue that theyre similar youre reaching incredibly hard.


The rest of those guys have enough playing time for us to safely assume theyre not good, not going to be good eventually, and arent worth anything. This whole thread is about a guy who we havent seen everything from and you answering with Brian Hoyer and Matt Cassell tells me youre missing the point by a country mile.

Quote:Kellen Moores arm is by far the weakest in the league, if you actually try to argue that theyre similar youre reaching incredibly hard.


The rest of those guys have enough playing time for us to safely assume theyre not good, not going to be good eventually, and arent worth anything. This whole thread is about a guy who we havent seen everything from and you answering with Brian Hoyer and Matt Cassell tells me youre missing the point by a country mile.

And your missing my point which is we don`t need more time to see what type of player Mccarron is because there`s already enough film between collage and NFL to say hes not good and never will be. Therefore any of the options listed above are cheaper and just as good.

Quote:And your missing my point which is we don`t need more time to see what type of player Mccarron is because there`s already enough film between collage and NFL to say hes not good and never will be. Therefore any of the options listed above are cheaper and just as good.

But there isnt. Its 5 games, one of which was down right bad and the others were good to ok. If thats enough time to decide what a QB is we should have canned blake after his first season.

The opposition to "game managers" around here is also weird. Lots of teams in the league are implimenting dink and dunk significantly in their offenses. Dallas, NE, KC, NYG and Washington are all using short to intermediate throws in large portions to supplement everything else so i dont get why everyone so vehemently against anything that points the team that way. Its the nature of the game now.

Quote:But there isnt. Its 5 games, one of which was down right bad and the others were good to ok. If thats enough time to decide what a QB is we should have canned blake after his first season.

And in those 5 games his done nothing to prove that hes anything more then average at best.

Quote:The opposition to "game managers" around here is also weird. Lots of teams in the league are implimenting dink and dunk significantly in their offenses. Dallas, NE, KC, NYG and Washington are all using short to intermediate throws in large portions to supplement everything else so i dont get why everyone so vehemently against anything that points the team that way. Its the nature of the game now.

If A-Rob returns to form, we dont need to dink and dunk. Those teams don't really have that guy, even dez bryant is more of a run after catch guy than a over the top threat. 

Since we keep talking about FA Qbs. Lets Look at the 2015 Jets offense. Fitzpatrick is no brett favre when were talking about arm talent, yet that offense was effective still and had similar personell to us. Their biggest downfall is the fact that fitzpatrick isnt actually good at football obviously, but the idea works.


So lets say for a second from a purely physical/arm standpoint AJ is limited to being Fitzpatrick, but its undecided if he is or could be vastly superior in the other aspects of the game so he doesnt crumble like Fitz before the playoffs to the bills. Why is that something everyone hates so much?

Quote:The opposition to "game managers" around here is also weird. Lots of teams in the league are implimenting dink and dunk significantly in their offenses. Dallas, NE, KC, NYG and Washington are all using short to intermediate throws in large portions to supplement everything else so i dont get why everyone so vehemently against anything that points the team that way. Its the nature of the game now.In American football, a <b>game manager</b> is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win <b>games</b>. <b>Game managers</b> often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams.

a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams.

 

Only KC has a game manger as there QB. Your definition of game manager is off.

Quote:a game manager is a quarterback who, despite relatively poor individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, performs well enough to win games. Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams.


Only KC has a game manger as there QB. Your definition of game manager is off.

Then just skip the first sentence if that makes you happy, everything after it still stands.

Quote:Since we keep talking about FA Qbs. Lets Look at the 2015 Jets offense. Fitzpatrick is no brett favre when were talking about arm talent, yet that offense was effective still and had similar personell to us. Their biggest downfall is the fact that fitzpatrick isnt actually good at football obviously, but the idea works.


So lets say for a second from a purely physical/arm standpoint AJ is limited to being Fitzpatrick, but its undecided if he is or could be vastly superior in the other aspects of the game so he doesnt crumble like Fitz before the playoffs to the bills. Why is that something everyone hates so much?

The cost is what I hate. We got problems on the O line, issues at LB, questions in many other places. If AJ was an UFA, sure, of course, but we need more talent, more picks. Trading a 2/3/4 for a game manager with upside is too much.

Quote:Since we keep talking about FA Qbs. Lets Look at the 2015 Jets offense. Fitzpatrick is no brett favre when were talking about arm talent, yet that offense was effective still and had similar personell to us. Their biggest downfall is the fact that fitzpatrick isnt actually good at football obviously, but the idea works.


So lets say for a second from a purely physical/arm standpoint AJ is limited to being Fitzpatrick, but its undecided if he is or could be vastly superior in the other aspects of the game so he doesnt crumble like Fitz before the playoffs to the bills. Why is that something everyone hates so much?

Fitz was benched multiple times this year for Geno Smith and Bryce Petty. Two QBs who've shown all but nothing, yet Fitz was only thrown back into play because of injuries from those two.

 

If you are really trying to compare, or hope, or say whatever you're doing and using Fitz as an example. Lets just look at the Jets not wanting to sign him to a long term deal, or pay him much of anything, even though he came off the best season of his career.

 

If you hope that McCarron has a career like Fitz, that's a solid career. You simply don't ever trade for a QB like that though.

Quote:The cost is what I hate. We got problems on the O line, issues at LB, questions in many other places. If AJ was an UFA, sure, of course, but we need more talent, more picks. Trading a 2/3/4 for a game manager with upside is too much.

Lets just assume its a 2nd round pick for the sake of scenario. You dont think rounds 1/3/4/5/6/7 and FA are enough to quell some of those issues? Even with keeping our picks were not going to fix ALL of our issues. But i dont agree with the idea that sacrificing one pick can nullify our efforts to fix our other holes. Especially when the pick in question is being used in effort to potentially secure the most important position.

Quote:Fitz was benched multiple times this year for Geno Smith and Bryce Petty. Two QBs who've shown all but nothing, yet Fitz was only thrown back into play because of injuries from those two.


If you are really trying to compare, or hope, or say whatever you're doing and using Fitz as an example. Lets just look at the Jets not wanting to sign him to a long term deal, or pay him much of anything, even though he came off the best season of his career.


If you hope that McCarron has a career like Fitz, that's a solid career. You simply don't ever trade for a QB like that though.

The only comparison being made between AJ and Fitz is arm talent, nothing more. Im remarking on the idea that an offense(2015 Jets) with a guy with limited arm talent whos regularly regarded as a game manager can be effective even if that same QB is really bad at most things QBs need to do to win games, which Fitz is. Im basically saying that the premium on arm strength and downfield throwing isnt as warranted as some would make it seem.

2015                            

                                CMP ATT  CMP%   Yards      AVG   TD      INT

Ryan Fitzpatrick       335 562     59.6      3,905       6.95   31     15     

Blake Bortles            355 606      58.6      4,428       7.31   35    18 

 

Both had a QB rating at 88

 

If your argument is what if hes as good as Fitzpatrick then why not give Bortles next year since hes already at least proven once he can play at the same level

 

On the flip side of your argument here we could just as easily get 2016 Fitz with Mcarron and lose yet another year and a pick.

 

Quote:Since we keep talking about FA Qbs. Lets Look at the 2015 Jets offense. Fitzpatrick is no brett favre when were talking about arm talent, yet that offense was effective still and had similar personell to us. Their biggest downfall is the fact that fitzpatrick isnt actually good at football obviously, but the idea works.


So lets say for a second from a purely physical/arm standpoint AJ is limited to being Fitzpatrick, but its undecided if he is or could be vastly superior in the other aspects of the game so he doesnt crumble like Fitz before the playoffs to the bills. Why is that something everyone hates so much?