http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/upshot...0002&abg=0
Here is an interesting editorial in the New York Times about repealing the corporate income tax.
The current problem is, our corporate income tax is so high, it is inviting US corporations to merge with foreign corporations and tax up tax residence in countries where the corporate tax is much lower. In addition to that, US based corporations now have trillions of dollars stashed overseas that they cannot repatriate to the US because it would be subject to our high corporate income tax if they do that.
I think it would be a very good idea to abolish the corporate income tax. In order to make up for the loss of revenue to the government, shift the tax burden to the shareholders, the owners of the corporation, by taxing dividends at ordinary income tax rates, adding a consumption tax, and creating a universal tax rebate to alleviate the burden of consumption taxes from the poor.
Throw out your political ideology. Don't think liberal or conservative or libertarian. Look at this from a purely practical perspective. High corporate taxes are hurting the country more than helping it. We have to compete in a global marketplace if we want to preserve the jobs that feed our families.
I was right with you until you got to the "making up for lost revenue".
I agree the cooperate tac is driving money and work overseas. However a consumption tax ontop of a production tax is toxic and would kill the economy. It has to be one or the other, I'm an obvious advocate of a fair tax type replacement code. If you forced the blackmarket out of the shadows that would be a significant increase is revenue.
However revenue is not the governments problem, spending is. We spend more than what is sustainable year after year regardless of who's in power.
Quote:I was right with you until you got to the "making up for lost revenue".
I agree the cooperate tac is driving money and work overseas. However a consumption tax ontop of a production tax is toxic and would kill the economy. It has to be one or the other, I'm an obvious advocate of a fair tax type replacement code. If you forced the blackmarket out of the shadows that would be a significant increase is revenue.
However revenue is not the governments problem, spending is. We spend more than what is sustainable year after year regardless of who's in power.
Spending above your revenue is an issue rather than spending yourself. I would say it is wise to look to increase revenue first before cutting spending.
Yeah, okay, spending is a different issue. I was simply advocating repealing the corporate income tax and replacing it with something else.
Read the link in the first post, please.
Quote:Yeah, okay, spending is a different issue. I was simply advocating repealing the corporate income tax and replacing it with something else.
Read the link in the first post, please.
I did what he's suggesting is half of a fair tax it would essentially be a massive tax hike on consumers.
The fair tax replaces all income tax with a consumption tax. He's advocating only eliminating corporate income tax and scaling back individual income tax. He rations correctly I might add that taxation on corporations is pushing them out of country, that same principle applies to the individual the income tax is a penalty on production.
You can't make the case income taxation is bad for corporations but ok for individuals.
Quote:Throw out your political ideology. Don't think liberal or conservative or libertarian. Look at this from a purely practical perspective. High corporate taxes are hurting the country more than helping it. We have to compete in a global marketplace if we want to preserve the jobs that feed our families.
Our tax scheme that is so easily abused for political profit is hurting the economy. Too many people whose only skin in the game who vote to keep it that, too many addendums, alterations, modifications, allotments, deductions, and pages of tax code to keep the system fair. When tax preparation work is 500 billion a year industry then the system is too big and too complex.
I just find it very difficult to believe that the CIT is such a hindrance on businesses when we see large corporations profiting in such huge amounts.
I just heard on the news yesterday that Burger King is looking to buy some food joint in Canada so they can claim Canada has their corporate base and thus pay the CIT to Canada.
Is it that our tax rates on corporations are too high? Or is it that corporations do everything they can to maximize profits? Obviously its the latter. No matter how low you make CIT, it will not be low enough. At what point will countries then start offering credits to corporations for them to relocate? I usually cannot stand slippery slope arguments, but you're seeing one here...
So let's say that we reduce corporate income taxes, then what is the next area in which a corporation can increase their profits? The major costs to corporations have always been taxes, labor costs, and production costs.. So the next attack I would see would be on labor. Make less employees to more work for less dollars. After that, you have production, create cheaper goods for less money to increase your margins. So after CIT is dropped, then what, a fight against minimum wage? And what about production costs? The fight against EPA and other regulations? It seems that the working class consumers are bound to always lose.
I think there needs to be a realization that corporations are to serve the public and communities that they do business in. A corporation's business should not focus solely on increasing shareholder wealth. Stakeholders also have a large part of what makes a corporation successful, it's something we've all ignored.
Let's face it, our federal tax code is created by legislators that have been bought by those that are looking to line their own pockets. Until we get leaders that actually look more like us, or at least understand what workers are going through, the tax code will be set up for business interests and not middle class/worker's interests. And thus we have what we have now. A stagnant economy and opportunities for alot of workers and a booming Wall-Street that is a money machine for those that already have plenty.
Quote:I just find it very difficult to believe that the CIT is such a hindrance on businesses when we see large corporations profiting in such huge amounts.
I just heard on the news yesterday that Burger King is looking to buy some food joint in Canada so they can claim Canada has their corporate base and thus pay the CIT to Canada.
Is it that our tax rates on corporations are too high? Or is it that corporations do everything they can to maximize profits? Obviously its the latter. No matter how low you make CIT, it will not be low enough. At what point will countries then start offering credits to corporations for them to relocate? I usually cannot stand slippery slope arguments, but you're seeing one here...
So let's say that we reduce corporate income taxes, then what is the next area in which a corporation can increase their profits? The major costs to corporations have always been taxes, labor costs, and production costs.. So the next attack I would see would be on labor. Make less employees to more work for less dollars. After that, you have production, create cheaper goods for less money to increase your margins. So after CIT is dropped, then what, a fight against minimum wage? And what about production costs? The fight against EPA and other regulations? It seems that the working class consumers are bound to always lose.
I think there needs to be a realization that corporations are to serve the public and communities that they do business in. A corporation's business should not focus solely on increasing shareholder wealth. Stakeholders also have a large part of what makes a corporation successful, it's something we've all ignored.
Let's face it, our federal tax code is created by legislators that have been bought by those that are looking to line their own pockets. Until we get leaders that actually look more like us, or at least understand what workers are going through, the tax code will be set up for business interests and not middle class/worker's interests. And thus we have what we have now. A stagnant economy and opportunities for alot of workers and a booming Wall-Street that is a money machine for those that already have plenty.
The Corporate income tax is 35% in the United States. Other developed nations are nearing 20% and lower you really think you're going to attract ANY business to the United States when we're nearly DOUBLE what the rest of the world is in tax rates. If something isn't done you'll have a real job crises in about 20 years if not sooner.
Quote:The Corporate income tax is 35% in the United States. Other developed nations are nearing 20% and lower you really think you're going to attract ANY business to the United States when we're nearly DOUBLE what the rest of the world is in tax rates. If something isn't done you'll have a real job crises in about 20 years if not sooner.
You don't fix the problems the USA is experiencing with more supply side focused economics and a race to the bottom.
The inversions and tax evasion schemes are symptoms of the problem, as long as you're focused on the symptoms and imagining ways to address them they won't go away.
The tax rate could be zero and it still wouldn't be low enough to stave off what is really causing the "job crises."
Quote:You don't fix the problems the USA is experiencing with more supply side focused economics and a race to the bottom.
The inversions and tax evasion schemes are symptoms of the problem, as long as you're focused on the symptoms and imagining ways to address them they won't go away.
The tax rate could be zero and it still wouldn't be low enough to stave off what is really causing the "job crises."
It's not a race to the bottom, it's leveling out of control tax rates that are literally creating an incentive to not have corporations based in the United States.
Quote:It's not a race to the bottom, it's leveling out of control tax rates that are literally creating an incentive to not have corporations based in the United States.
Yes, it is a race to the bottom. When you believe the solution is to lower taxes you're committing to the wrong incentive.
You can only fix the current problems with trade reform.
Quote:Yes, it is a race to the bottom. When you believe the solution is to lower taxes you're committing to the wrong incentive.
You can only fix the current problems with trade reform.
So tell companies not only will you pay 35% Corporate income tax but damn it you'll pay tariffs on imports! That will make them stay!
Quote:The Corporate income tax is 35% in the United States. Other developed nations are nearing 20% and lower you really think you're going to attract ANY business to the United States when we're nearly DOUBLE what the rest of the world is in tax rates. If something isn't done you'll have a real job crises in about 20 years if not sooner.
I'm at work, so I can't get into this right now as much as I'd like... but have you done any research on what the effective tax rate is for some of these large multi nationals?
Quote:So tell companies not only will you pay 35% Corporate income tax but damn it you'll pay tariffs on imports! That will make them stay!
When the alternative is pulling out of the market and letting everyone else sell to the citizens of the US instead then you'd find that corporations would jump through just about any hoop you put in front of them, accepting that their competitors will have to do the same, and that's really the problem we have in America right now, due to free trade American workers are being pitted against Mexican workers and Chinese workers, and every other nation where a factory can be built and people paid pennies an hour.
Quote:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/upshot...0002&abg=0
Here is an interesting editorial in the New York Times about repealing the corporate income tax.
The current problem is, our corporate income tax is so high, it is inviting US corporations to merge with foreign corporations and tax up tax residence in countries where the corporate tax is much lower. In addition to that, US based corporations now have trillions of dollars stashed overseas that they cannot repatriate to the US because it would be subject to our high corporate income tax if they do that.
I think it would be a very good idea to abolish the corporate income tax. In order to make up for the loss of revenue to the government, shift the tax burden to the shareholders, the owners of the corporation, by taxing dividends at ordinary income tax rates, adding a consumption tax, and creating a universal tax rebate to alleviate the burden of consumption taxes from the poor.
Throw out your political ideology. Don't think liberal or conservative or libertarian. Look at this from a purely practical perspective. High corporate taxes are hurting the country more than helping it. We have to compete in a global marketplace if we want to preserve the jobs that feed our families.
So you want to eliminate the corporate income tax and punish the individuals? You do realize that a lot of those "owners of the corporation" who receive dividends are retirees or or folks with a 401k. Let's punish those people by hammering them with more taxes including a consumption tax and a universal tax rebate for the poor (already exists. It's called the Earned Income Tax Credit. Poor don't pay taxes).
Companies should pay some level of income taxes. It doesn't need to be the highest rate on the planet. You say corporate taxes are hurting this country, so your grand plan is to stick it to the taxpayers. Not a good trade.
Quote:Yes, it is a race to the bottom. When you believe the solution is to lower taxes you're committing to the wrong incentive.
You can only fix the current problems with trade reform.
At a corporate level, you're exactly right. Trade reform would level the playing field and entice companies to rethink moving their operations out of the US. It won't happen. Not with the current leadership in either party.
Quote:So you want to eliminate the corporate income tax and punish the individuals? You do realize that a lot of those "owners of the corporation" who receive dividends are retirees or or folks with a 401k. Let's punish those people by hammering them with more taxes including a consumption tax and a universal tax rebate for the poor (already exists. It's called the Earned Income Tax Credit. Poor don't pay taxes).
Companies should pay some level of income taxes. It doesn't need to be the highest rate on the planet. You say corporate taxes are hurting this country, so your grand plan is to stick it to the taxpayers. Not a good trade.
Poor don't pay INCOME taxes but everyone pays taxes. But overall I agree with you cutting one to raise another doesn't fix anything
Quote:At a corporate level, you're exactly right. Trade reform would level the playing field and entice companies to rethink moving their operations out of the US. It won't happen. Not with the current leadership in either party.
Trade reform is such a broad statement like any reform it means literally anything. Pretty sure what oklahomie has advocate in the past is higher corporate taxes heavy tariffs and high welfare spending as a recipe for a healthy economy.
His idea of trade reform id want no part in. Lower taxes minimizing government let the market work as a free market. Free trade isn't a bad thing, selectively free trade is.
Quote:The Corporate income tax is 35% in the United States. Other developed nations are nearing 20% and lower you really think you're going to attract ANY business to the United States when we're nearly DOUBLE what the rest of the world is in tax rates. If something isn't done you'll have a real job crises in about 20 years if not sooner.
You're logic seems faulty to me. We've had the highest tax rates for quite some time... We don't have any problem attracting businesses here. We have a stable political system, educated workers, no unions (essentially), a relatively well designed infrastructure, paved roads, police to protect property, and I could go on.
You don't see tech companies flying out of the US. You see auto companies moving into the south. You see alot of growth for wall street companies even with a 35% tax rate, again the effective tax rates of these companies is significantly smaller than that, as I referred you to earlier.
The issue is whether one wants to honestly buy the corporate line. If you fall for the supply side theory of economics, you'll freak out that poor little corporations drive our economy. The fact is, we live in a demand driven economy. Consumers, not corporations create wealth and jobs. Corporations just try to capitalize on the profits.
Quote:You're logic seems faulty to me. We've had the highest tax rates for quite some time... We don't have any problem attracting businesses here. We have a stable political system, educated workers, no unions (essentially), a relatively well designed infrastructure, paved roads, police to protect property, and I could go on.
You don't see tech companies flying out of the US. You see auto companies moving into the south. You see alot of growth for wall street companies even with a 35% tax rate, again the effective tax rates of these companies is significantly smaller than that, as I referred you to earlier.
The issue is whether one wants to honestly buy the corporate line. If you fall for the supply side theory of economics, you'll freak out that poor little corporations drive our economy. The fact is, we live in a demand driven economy. Consumers, not corporations create wealth and jobs. Corporations just try to capitalize on the profits.
It's not about the poor little corporations needing a break, it's about the reality that if I own a widget company and I can pay less taxes and make the product cheaper over sea's I'd be a fool to not do it. Telling me I'll have to pay tariffs on top of higher taxes and pay higher wages isn't going to convince the widget company to keep their jobs state side.
You think companies stay in America for our roads, infrastructure and private property protection? The rest of the world has that as well, we're not in competition with Zimbabwe, America is competing with Europe, and a developed Asia (with just as much if not more consumerism to sell to).
If consumers create the wealth where do you think consumers get the wealth to drive the economy? I'm all for small business but the reality is we have to keep large employers state side or you'll have a high non-participation work force continuously. With the level of welfare we plan on dishing out over the next few decades you're going to need a higher work force participation rate or the money just isn't there.
I know it's quick and easy to lynch the evil corporations, I hate Wal-Mart as much as the next guy, but in the system that we've created they're necessary. And the notion they won't leave for lower tax responsibilities and lower production cost because we have paved roads and police is ridiculous.