Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Mallett traded or nah?

Quote:Do the people who bash TMD for getting his picks wrong ever...and I mean EVER take a stand in favor of a player before the draft?

 

Knock him for getting some wrong, but at least he takes a stance on a player before the draft.

 

Many of you guys wont bother to offer a supporting opinion of a player until the Jaguars draft him, then you rubber stamp the decision until the player proves to be a bust or leaves.  Anyone can do that. 

 

The fact is, everyone who offers an opinion of their own on a player is going to get his share wrong.

 

Even the guys paid by NFL teams to do it.

 

Yep, pretty much the above ^^^

 

And the people that are the loudest in regards to showing my player misses are the biggest culprits of the above. 

I mostly love TMD. He adds things to the MB that nobody else can approximate.  Sure he goes too far sometimes, or all the time, but that's not that bad. There's others on here far worse IMO and many more of us who rarely have anything of value to add, me included.

 

At least he has an opinion and defends it. A good old FBT/Pirkster vs TMD shootout is often fun to read.

Quote:I mostly love TMD. He adds things to the MB that nobody else can approximate.  Sure he goes too far sometimes, or all the time, but that's not that bad. There's others on here far worse IMO and many more of us who rarely have anything of value to add, me included.

 

At least he has an opinion and defends it. A good old FBT/Pirkster vs TMD shootout is often fun to read.

 

TMD vs FBT is good to read since both of us are majority football takes/ talk on here. 

Quote:Mallett is a future franchise level QB, I've been saying this forever. Mayock & this Chris Wesseling have only recently started pimping this notion, but just further proof that Mallett isn't the scrub that most of this board wrongly spoke oif him being. 

 

Lol, they stole the idea from you?

Quote:Lol, they stole the idea from you?

 

I didn't say that. Leap the size of the grand canyon. 

Quote:Do the people who bash TMD for getting his picks wrong ever...and I mean EVER take a stand in favor of a player before the draft?

 

Knock him for getting some wrong, but at least he takes a stance on a player before the draft.

 

Many of you guys wont bother to offer a supporting opinion of a player until the Jaguars draft him, then you rubber stamp the decision until the player proves to be a bust or leaves.  Anyone can do that. 

 

The fact is, everyone who offers an opinion of their own on a player is going to get his share wrong.

 

Even the guys paid by NFL teams to do it.

 

The only issue is how he can sometimes come across as condescending whenever someone disagrees.  He's not a troll, as some people have labeled him.  

 

If you're condescending, people are going to want to make you eat crow.  I've been wrong plenty of times.  I wanted Jimmy Clausen.  I liked Teddy Bridgewater, and even Geno Smith.  I also liked Joe Flacco, thought Matt Jones was a terrible pick, thought Justin Blackmon was a bigger risk factor than Michael Floyd. 

 

I imagine if TMD hadn't constantly touted Ryan Mallet as the next great thing, most people wouldn't bother him about it.  In all honesty, I never got what there was to him, and have never heard a solid argument in his favor without using his college days.  

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

 

 

 

 

And for the record, I too, was a fan of Mallett coming out of college.  Maybe he just had a bad game like that other guy I was a fan of - Nick Foles.

 

Anyway, we can probably get him for a 7th now.

Quote:The only issue is how he can sometimes come across as condescending whenever someone disagrees.  He's not a troll, as some people have labeled him.  

 

If you're condescending, people are going to want to make you eat crow.  I've been wrong plenty of times.  I wanted Jimmy Clausen.  I liked Teddy Bridgewater, and even Geno Smith.  I also liked Joe Flacco, thought Matt Jones was a terrible pick, thought Justin Blackmon was a bigger risk factor than Michael Floyd. 

 

I imagine if TMD hadn't constantly touted Ryan Mallet as the next great thing, most people wouldn't bother him about it.  In all honesty, I never got what there was to him, and have never heard a solid argument in his favor without using his college days.  

 

I agree he can come across this way, but I will say that is hardly exclusive to him.

 

I know I have come across that way, and other "prominent" posters have too.

 

Maybe he deserves some of the flack he gets.  Maybe not.

 

But some of what he gets is over the top to the point of being contrived, and is really bad when it comes from people who won't offer their own takes on players aside from rubber stamping what the team does.

 

I think if you post, are willing to have your own opinion on a player and post it, and disagree with TMD, have at it.

I've disagreed with him countless times.

 

But if you are not willing to have your own take on a player and make it a matter of board record, I think as a general rule you should avoid tearing him-or anyone- down because he took a stand on a player or players and was wrong.

Oh, I know it's certainly not exclusive to him.  But when he says things like: 

 

 

Quote:Can I get a "I'm sorry TMD, you were right"?....

 

 

Then it makes it too easy.  Especially when it's based on rumors and speculation.  When you run away with rumors and speculation, people are going to want to hound you.  It's the gamble of listening to them.

Quote:Oh, I know it's certainly not exclusive to him.  But when he says things like: 

 

 

 

 

Then it makes it too easy.  Especially when it's based on rumors and speculation.  When you run away with rumors and speculation, people are going to want to hound you.  It's the gamble of listening to them.

I get he brings some of the derision on himself.

 

I guess my point...my version of "board ethics" if you will...mandates putting your own "recs" on the table before reflexively trashing others for their misses, and it isn't restricted to TMD related posts.  It's a general principle to me.

Quote:I get he brings some of the derision on himself.

 

I guess my point...my version of "board ethics" if you will...mandates putting your own "recs" on the table before reflexively trashing others for their misses, and it isn't restricted to TMD related posts.  It's a general principle to me.

 

Well, some people seem to have the opinion that you should just leave it up to the professionals.  This was particularly common during the Gene Smith era.  I -don't- have that opinion, but I can understand where it comes from.    Those people just want to point out where the armchair gm's were wrong.  (Of course professionals are wrong pretty often too)  They also tend to have the opinion that you should 'wait and see' Which I think is fair.  Really, I don't think Mallet has shown anything to want to trade anything for.

Quote:Well, some people seem to have the opinion that you should just leave it up to the professionals.  This was particularly common during the Gene Smith era.  I -don't- have that opinion, but I can understand where it comes from.    Those people just want to point out where the armchair gm's were wrong.  (Of course professionals are wrong pretty often too)  They also tend to have the opinion that you should 'wait and see' Which I think is fair.  Really, I don't think Mallet has shown anything to want to trade anything for.

 

Asking people to wait and see after a draft is patently fair (if hopeful and unrealistic).

 

I don't think Mallet has lived up to the promise that many, including myself and to a larger degree TMD.

 

I don't get the whole leave it to the professionals mindset.

 

It isn't as if any of us could submit the card to the commissioner on draft day and substitute our recs for the team's desired targets.  The team will pick whomever they see fit irrespective of our pontifications....as it should be.

 

But this board is for the exchange of ideas and opinions.  I don't see how taking a position on a draft prospect runs counter to those purposes.

Mallet is not going to be the same QB that he was when he was drafted. He's been training in, of all the teams, New England for 3 years. I have high hopes for the kid, even if he has to go to the overrated Texans. He deserves to have the opportunity to start and prove that he is worthy. I wanted the Jags to draft him 3 years ago, so my opinion is a bit biased.

I like posting and talking about players that I like and ones that I would like to have on the roster (Adam Carriker anyone?) but what I don't like is trashing players to the point where they seem like they are no better than a High School Third Stringer.

 

I love knowing what people see in players because it gives you an idea of what kind of football they like, but I've been around long enough to know that you can coach up football an awful lot of different ways.

Quote:I like posting and talking about players that I like and ones that I would like to have on the roster (Adam Carriker anyone?) but what I don't like is trashing players to the point where they seem like they are no better than a High School Third Stringer.

 

I love knowing what people see in players because it gives you an idea of what kind of football they like, but I've been around long enough to know that you can coach up football an awful lot of different ways.

That's a tough one.

 

If you have a strong conviction AGAINST a player, how should you express that without making him look bad?

 

There have been plenty of players I have argued strongly against.

 

I have been proven right on some and spectacularly wrong on others.

 

But if I couldn't argue in a way commensurate with my conviction on a player-good or bad-I'm not sure I could debate a player's merits at all.

Quote:That's a tough one.

 

If you have a strong conviction AGAINST a player, how should you express that without making him look bad?

 

There have been plenty of players I have argued strongly against.

 

I have been proven right on some and spectacularly wrong on others.

 

But if I couldn't argue in a way commensurate with my conviction on a player-good or bad-I'm not sure I could debate a player's merits at all.

 

A way that I have learned to express "convictions against" has been to remove adjectives from the description and be as specific as possible. For example using a Defensive Tackle in this instance:

 

• I have not seen an ability to split a double team in the running game. I watched seven plays of his and he did not stand up to the blockers nor was the runner forced one side or the other due to his play.
  
• His hand punch in the Notre Dame game did not show any effectiveness. On the three plays where I saw him use his punch, the blocker swatted it away and he was forced to bull rush.
  

In short, speak to what you have seen and what you know. Not what you think. It's probably the toughest part about watching sports critically. You not only need to know what the player did, you need to know what he was trying to accomplish.

 

And reading back through this, I realize that I come across as stuffy and high-minded but them's the breaks I guess.

Quote: 

 

But if you are not willing to have your own take on a player and make it a matter of board record, I think as a general rule you should avoid tearing him-or anyone- down because he took a stand on a player or players and was wrong.

 

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:I get he brings some of the derision on himself.

 

I guess my point...my version of "board ethics" if you will...mandates putting your own "recs" on the table before reflexively trashing others for their misses, and it isn't restricted to TMD related posts.  It's a general principle to me.

 

Yep, thats how I operate as well, and part of the reason I make sure I have my own take before bashing someone elses. 

 

I think a key word in the above is "ethics"....a certain sect lack them, and its evident. 

Quote:Do the people who bash TMD for getting his picks wrong ever...and I mean EVER take a stand in favor of a player before the draft?

 

Knock him for getting some wrong, but at least he takes a stance on a player before the draft.

 

Many of you guys wont bother to offer a supporting opinion of a player until the Jaguars draft him, then you rubber stamp the decision until the player proves to be a bust or leaves.  Anyone can do that. 

 

The fact is, everyone who offers an opinion of their own on a player is going to get his share wrong.

 

Even the guys paid by NFL teams to do it.

 

I certainly hope you weren't veiling a shot at me.

 

I'm well outspoken about my opinions and take plenty of heat for them, but the difference is... I back my opinions with fact and logic, and am capable of accepting well in advance that they could be very wrong and have no problem with those who disagree.  I also don't make petty "predictions" or "guarantee" this or that "will" happen.

 

TMD is the antithesis of that.

 

So, when his "superior intellect" lectures us about what will or will not happen and how "right" he believes he is, there's nothing more perfect than using his own words as a retort when he begins his self gratification again, again.