I have a feeling that smoke screens are more relevant than honesty. Unless they aren't.
Isn't that really what you would expect? Unless it isn't.
Well, we now know who the Jaguars won't be drafting.
Quote:Funny you didn't highlight this part, as it isn't an endorsement for Manziel but a slight.
Actually I thought that was one of the biggest eye-openers by Caldwell.
Namely because if defies the consensus of many on these boards. Which seems to be that Manziel of all the top QBs will have the hardest time transitioning to the NFL. That his 'first year', of all of them, is going to be a reeeeally steep learning curve, and if it somehow works out, Manziel will look like a totally different QB in year 2 than we know him right now.
Dave disagrees.
It seems to the contrary that in Dave's mind, it is the Bridgewater, Mettenberger, Bottles, McCarron, etc, etc, who would be the ones most in store for a culture shock entering the NFL.
Ie, THEIR "first years" will be brutal(think Geno Smith). We would have to baby them and hopefully they'll "get it" by year two. Manziel on the other hand is, as DAve said, the only QB prospect that can be literally
"plugged in" right now to our offense. What we would see out of MAnziel his first 'rookie' year is likely the same "style of play" we'd see the second, third, fourth year, and so on.
In other words, Manziel's ready to play right now for the JAguars. His rookie year would likely look just as good as his sophmore year because of his style of play. Whereas every other QB would prolly look pretty terrible their first year(like most rookies), but after some time, would look better in year 2.
Quote:Actually I thought that was one of the biggest eye-openers by Caldwell. Namely because if defies the consensus of many on these boards. Which seems to be that Manziel of all the top QBs will have the hardest time transitioning to the NFL. That his 'first year', of all of them, is going to be a reeeeally steep learning curve, and if it somehow works out, Manziel will look like a totally different QB in year 2 than we know him right now. Dave disagrees.
It seems to the contrary that in Dave's mind, it is the Bridgewater, Mettenberger, Bottles, McCarron, etc, etc, who would be the ones most in store for a culture shock entering the NFL. Ie, THEIR "first years" will be brutal(think Geno Smith). We would have to baby them and hopefully they'll "get it" by year two. Manziel on the other hand is, as DAve said, the only QB prospect that can be literally "plugged in" right now to our offense. What we would see out of MAnziel his first 'rookie' year is likely the same "style of play" we'd see the second, third, fourth year, and so on.
In other words, Manziel's ready to play right now for the JAguars. His rookie year would likely look just as good as his sophmore year because of his style of play. Whereas every other QB would prolly look pretty terrible their first year(like most rookies), but after some time, would look better in year 2.
So if he's not drafted here, we can say goodbye to you? The incentives keep piling up.
No offense to you JJ (as I too am hoping we pick him), but this information means nothing. It could be smoke, it could be the honest truth. To me, it's honesty, because I feel the same way (although I think he should start later than sooner because he still needs to learn some things). But we could be drafting Matthews for all we know. It's cool to hear, but until Thursday, I'm taking none of this as fact. I hope that all the JM fans (which a lot seem to be new to the board) can support other players; if in fact he isn't taken. I have my serious doubts that we do take him. I hope we do and disregard all the ignorant NFL analysts who say otherwise; but I have my doubts. I love how there is so much enthusiasm with the JM fans, but there are other great players too. We gotta be open to all possible choices. The reason I'm saying this, is because as soon as something is said about JM, all the JM fans jump up for joy. Let's just hold the celebration off for a while and see what happens.
GO JAGS!!
Quote:In other words, Manziel's ready to play right now for the JAguars. His rookie year would likely look just as good as his sophmore year because of his style of play. Whereas every other QB would prolly look pretty terrible their first year(like most rookies), but after some time, would look better in year 2.
So here's the problem with this whole approach. Caldwell's comment could be taken to mean that Manziel is already good and will stay good, or it could mean that he views Manziel as an average player who could start right away, but will never be markedly better than he already is. Gotta read between the lines. There's no way Caldwell is going to unequivocally say that he loves Manziel to death and wants him on the team right now. What he will do is say things that appear positive, maybe enough so to get someone to try and jump to one or two for him, but are a lot more ambiguous than they seem at first.
Quote: but are a lot more ambiguous than they seem at first.
I do see your point TJ, but I personally think Dave was clarifying a bit of what he said earlier. I think it's interesting how people can have select hearing. A few weeks ago Caldwell made the comment that none of the QBs in this draft would likely start first year.
People on here didn't take that as a smokescreen, they took that as gospel-truth. Even going so far as to say if we got Teddy or Johnny with our first pick, they'd likely sit the first year(something I can hardly remember ever happening with a first round QB).
But now that Dave is making an addendum to that previous statement, saying that Johnny would in fact be the one exception to that rule for him in this draft, and he would actually probably play, but now people are writing it off as a lie. So were both statements lies, just the first one, just this one?
I think it's unfair to take Caldwell at his word 3 weeks ago, but call his clarification of that stance a smokescreen. I do tho see your point TJ, just trying to keep everybody honest.
Quote:So if he's not drafted here, we can say goodbye to you? The incentives keep piling up.
You got it FBT.
Listen, I live in Jacksonville, I have season-tickets, I've lived here my whole life and Jaguars are the only professional team I follow. And so don't take this as a, "if Jaguars don't get Johnny I'm not a Jaguars fan". I will always be a Jaguar with or without Manziel.
Just take this as an: "I'm ahead of the curve". I know something/been told something apparently many on these boards have not. I say this as honestly and nicely as I can FBT,
we are getting Johnny at 3, I've been told it's been planned for almost a year now.
So here's my deal FBT. If Manziel's is taken at #1 or #2, and we never get a chance, that's not fair, and I'm still here.
BUUUUUUUUT, if he's there at #3 and we willfully pass on him and never trade back up for him, I'll happily say goodbye to these boards forever, you have my word. That's not cocky of me tho, it's confident.
In particular, confident in what I've been told and the source who told me. If Johnny's there at #3, it will take WW3 for Dave to not take him. Mark my words.
You presume I took him at his word three weeks ago. I just haven't made a huge deal of it because I tend to agree with him--any QB selected in this draft will need time to watch and learn. The presence of Henne on a fairly substantial contract for a player of his caliber only helps strengthen the notion that a rookie will be on the bench this year.
Quote:The presence of Henne on a fairly substantial contract for a player of his caliber only helps strengthen the notion that a rookie will be on the bench this year.
Or the notion that Gus doesn't want 2 wet-behind the ears rookies on his QB depth chart. Henne's shown he can come in and
pinch-hit when the #1 guy goes down. That's what he was resigned for.
And forgive me Bender, i honestly didn't mean to say that you thought all that about dave's comments, only that the consensus as of late on these boards seem to be taking Dave at his word.
Quote:You got it FBT.
Listen, I live in Jacksonville, I have season-tickets, I've lived here my whole life and Jaguars are the only professional team I follow. And so don't take this as a, "if Jaguars don't get Johnny I'm not a Jaguars fan". I will always be a Jaguar with or without Manziel.
Just take this as an: "I'm ahead of the curve". I know something/been told something apparently many on these boards have not. I say this as honestly and nicely as I can FBT, we are getting Johnny at 3, I've been told it's been planned for almost a year now.
So here's my deal FBT. If Manziel's is taken at #1 or #2, and we never get a chance, that's not fair, and I'm still here.
BUUUUUUUUT, if he's there at #3 and we willfully pass on him and never trade back up for him, I'll happily say goodbye to these boards forever, you have my word. That's not cocky of me tho, it's confident. In particular, confident in what I've been told and the source who told me. If Johnny's there at #3, it will take WW3 for Dave to not take him. Mark my words.
Oh, I always enjoy these "inside sources". I'm sure the Jaguars are happily sharing their draft strategy with someone on a message board. Lemme guess, the stadium janitor heard someone in the cafeteria who was cooking lunch for the team mention something that sounded like Manziel. It could have been Man Meal. That doesn't matter. What they said he doesn't go #2, they're taking him. They could have been talking about their constipated kid, but it could have been draft talk too.
You'd better hope he goes #1 or 2 because otherwise you've got less than a week before we'll be seeing your parting words.
Quote:And forgive me Bender, i honestly didn't mean to say that you thought all that about dave's comments, only that the consensus as of late on these boards seem to be taking Dave at his word.
Why ask forgiveness? It was a perfectly logical assumption given my silence on that. Caldwell has always struck me in interviews as a very intelligent guy who can write you a book in four sentences. The "NFL ready" comments about Manziel only underscore that. Just look how big of a thread we've gotten out of that one remark. Imagine if it were Gene saying that. This thread wouldn't be full of back and forth, it would be person after person calling cowdung on him because he was terrible at leaving room for interpretation, and we'd already be talking about which fourth-round linebacker prospect he'd be drafting with the third pick.
Caldwell has a silvery tongue, and it's a gift he uses well. I have little doubt that he said exactly what he wanted to on the topic, and will now leave the media and opposing teams to derive their own meaning from it.
Quote:You'd better hope he goes #1 or 2 because otherwise you've got less than a week before we'll be seeing your parting words.
:thumbsup:
Don't worry, it all works out in the end.
Dave said his #2 trait for QBs (behind leadership) is decision making. Theres no way he takes Johnny at 3.
Quote:
BUUUUUUUUT, if he's there at #3 and we willfully pass on him and never trade back up for him, I'll happily say goodbye to these boards forever, you have my word. That's not cocky of me tho, it's confident. In particular, confident in what I've been told and the source who told me. If Johnny's there at #3, it will take WW3 for Dave to not take him. Mark my words.
That's some serious confidence. I'm rooting for you JJ!
Quote:When we don't take Manziel next week, the comedic explosion will rival passing on Tebow.
I normally agree with you, FBT but not here. Johnny is the the next best thing to Clowney in this draft as far as day one game changers (boom-bust ratio, so to say). If Johnny is as advertised then we start winning with magic on par with Wilson, Fluite, Tarkenton, etc.,(and I see a little bit of Brunells doppleganger in way of scramble ability). It's a risk, but the reward is huge.
Khan also wanted Tebow here at one point.
It's the next best narrative and if it fails then what did we loose? This team has been in the gutter for a bit now (it doesn't get much worse then Gabberrt). If we pair Johnny Football with his old college buddy and LT and they become our next Brunell and Boselli you can't tell me you won't be pumped.
This city needs some "magic". Caldwell and company have shown to take risks or "shots" with going after Mack this off-season.
If Clowneys not there I think the pick is Johnny Jaguar and we roll the dice with a gunslinging rookie QB.
Some interesting praise from an "anonymous scout". Per rotoworld:
Quote:Anonymous scout lavishes praise on Manziel
Johnny Manziel | CLG
(May 1, 2014 8:31 PM EDT)
An anonymous scout believes Johnny Manziel is more naturally talented than Drew Brees.
"His arm's not as strong as (Michael) Vick's, but he's farther along in the passing game (than Vick was)," the scout said. "He's better than (Doug) Flutie, faster and better than (Russell) Wilson. He reminds me a little bit of (Joe) Montana." This is hyperbole of the highest order, of course, but there's been plenty of it in the opposite direction for the 2012 Heisman Trophy winner. There's a good chance Manziel comes off the board within the first 10 picks.
SOURCE:
MILWAUKEE JOURNAL-SENTINEL
Quote:
In other words, Manziel's ready to play right now for the JAguars. His rookie year would likely look just as good as his sophmore year because of his style of play. Whereas every other QB would prolly look pretty terrible their first year(like most rookies), but after some time, would look better in year 2.
No, in other words Manziel will never be any better than he is now. His sophomore year will not look any better than his freshman year. He not capable of developing into an NFL QB. He can't play from the pocket, he'll always just run around and try to make things happen and that will
NOT work in this league.
Quote:Yea, FBT might just be the one who is shocked on Thursday. Anyways, no meltdown will ever rival Tebowners' long goodbye.
There was not many people melting down when we didnt pick Tebow, most people on the board bashed Tebow, people melted down on the board more so we over drafted Alualu and guess what, they were right and I was in that crowd it was a terrible pick.