Quote:Except he was praised universally even by some NFL GMs and coaches during the college season. As well as former scouts who do nothing but watch tape something Mayock admitted he didnt do.
Also the closer we get to the draft the more desperate draftniks get in their story making and the lies from coaches/ GMs intensify hence it being called "lying season" so you are backwards on that one pirk. In fact more gets pushed behind doors as teams do everything to keep other teams off their trail.
His arm strength hasnt waned. His accuracy hasnt dropped and there has been nothing to suggest that he has any problem with reading defense as with the other top 2 Qbs and that was acutally his greatest strength outside of outstanding pocket awarness which hasnt been tested since an outstanding bowl game against miami and is considered a weakness for the other 2 QBs.
The tape is there for everyone to look at. He goes through his progressions, has poise in the pocket, understands situational football, attacks the tough routes and isnt afraid to throw against man coverage.
The only knock on him was size and he trumped that so they jumped on a so-so proday and thats it. Its as if Mayock and others are saying his last 2 college seasons (where he got better in nearly every QB stat btw) are just smoke and mirrors which is laughable at best. I actually feel its the other way around : He IS that high on teams boards and in the minds of scouts and it has become popular opinion to predict his fall so those without real info (Mayock and the rest of ESPN) are trying to do just that.
But there no way thats possible right pirk?
You've fallen for the guy and are dismissing even the early reports by GMs that what you posted isn't true.
GMs have doubted this guy more than the media from the very start.
The signs were always there, it's just that they were swept under the rug by those following the crowd. This was being talked about WELL before the Pro Day.
Quote:You've fallen for the guy and are dismissing even the early reports by GMs that what you posted isn't true.
GMs have doubted this guy more than the media from the very start.
The signs were always there, it's just that they were swept under the rug by those following the crowd. This was being talked about WELL before the Pro Day.
I've fallen for no one i simply dont see what is taking away from what we've seen on the actual field for 2 seasons. Somehow Bortles who has major mechanical issues with footwork , a barely average arm and is a virtual unknown jumps from nowhere in a meh statistical season and is suddenly a more sure pick then the guy who has played at the top of his game on the main stage for 2 years in a row.
Do you not see the problem with that? I could see if TB had one good season but thats not the case.
What signs were there? Bad Footwork? Inability to read a defense? barely average arm? Pass happy spread offense padding numbers? Clear lack of pocket awarness? All nopes but they are all things Bortles shows every game and is now being considered better because he "has the size" and is a"prototypical" QB prospect. Sounds real familiar to another QB with clear cut pocket issues , coming from a spread offense with little to no under center work except even Gabbert had a cannon for an arm.
Look, none of us are really expert scouts (sorry !). but with "expert" opinions so widely varied at this draft I think it's sensible to treat all predictions at this stage with a healthy amount of scepticism.
What signs were there?
Why must we repeat ourselves incessantly? Because you've once again, dismissed honest criticism that yes, some people have been reporting all along?
He's rail thin. Dropped to 188 during the season last year, which is much shorter than an NFL season. How low will he go over a grueling NFL season?
He isn't the most accurate, and certainly not the strongest. Which is due to footwork that needs improvement and his trusting an arm that won't be able to bail him out at the next level with the speed and smaller windows in the NFL.
He's quiet as a mouse. He doesn't stand out among the crowd, doesn't take charge of a room like a leader. More of a lead by example and doesn't seem to be able to be a vocal leader or face of a franchise.
As the media machine built their case over the last couple years, I questioned why the NFL scouts, execs, etc. were relatively silent about him in comparison. No one could answer the question until now. If you don't have anything good to say, you don't say anything. Very early in this process, no one around the league went overboard for Ted like the media did. Instead, we heard they "liked but did not love" Ted. That sentiment appears to have been true, and has held true this entire time. Others said there wasn't a true franchise QB in this class, and that Manziel was closest. Again, over time, this appears to be closest to the truth as that's what the late sentiment is leaning towards. Manziel is certainly no sure thing, but the important point is that none of these QBs are. Most now have Manziel and Bortles at the top and no one expecting either to be a day one starter. All that makes sense. What doesn't make sense to me, is why Ted was ever considered a candidate for the first pick of the draft to begin with. Didn't make sense, never was backed with enough evidence to convince me, and still isn't.
The thin thing i can agree with he's a bit on the slim side and doesnt have strong looking ankles. Also i ssem to remember something about him having some sort of illness that hurt his playing weight. What did he show at the combine?
And actually outside of a BSU QB named Joe Southwick Bridgewater had the highest comp pct of any QB in college football last season and only 1 0f 3 to reach 70% something Manziel didnt do in a spread offense where completions come much easier so there goes not the most accurate as he quite literally was. Also he had a 9.3 ypa while Manziel had 9.6 so there goes the whole "he just throws shot passes" stuff others try to claim.
Quiet as a mouse? I can sorta agree with that but that far from means he cant be a franchise QB nor does it mean he is never vocal whatsoever. We have a player like that on our team in Poz right now and nobody questions whether or not he is the leader of the defense yet he rarely speaks.
And the NFL scouts and execs werent quiet he was liked all around and given praise for his film study and knowledge of defenses and even his footwork which i havent seen questioned on any site or scouting report. The only issue he has was deep accuracy. I find it funy you are talking about the media machine making a player when Manziel is nothing but a product of the media machine.
Quote:And the NFL scouts and execs werent quiet he was liked all around and given praise for his film study and knowledge of defenses and even his footwork which i havent seen questioned on any site or scouting report. The only issue he has was deep accuracy. I find it funy you are talking about the media machine making a player when Manziel is nothing but a product of the media machine.
This I can agree on whole heartedly. Though, I do think there's a chance there's a much better chance to make it for Manziel than say Tebow. He's special for sure, and there are a lot of folks on the bandwagon to see him succeed in the NFL. But they certainly aren't (in my mind) giving due to the amount of risk and the uphill climb it will take for him to transition that college magic to the NFL, if he can.
Quote:You've fallen for the guy and are dismissing even the early reports by GMs that what you posted isn't true.
GMs have doubted this guy more than the media from the very start.
The signs were always there, it's just that they were swept under the rug by those following the crowd. This was being talked about WELL before the Pro Day.
What early reports by GMs?!?
What kind of reports do GMs file?
To whom?!?
How would you have access to them?
Scouts, including BLESTO scouts file reports to GMs. I know because I've seen them.
But what "reports" do GMs file and with whom?
Quote:The thin thing i can agree with he's a bit on the slim side and doesnt have strong looking ankles. Also i ssem to remember something about him having some sort of illness that hurt his playing weight. What did he show at the combine?
And actually outside of a BSU QB named Joe Southwick Bridgewater had the highest comp pct of any QB in college football last season and only 1 0f 3 to reach 70% something Manziel didnt do in a spread offense where completions come much easier so there goes not the most accurate as he quite literally was. Also he had a 9.3 ypa while Manziel had 9.6 so there goes the whole "he just throws shot passes" stuff others try to claim.
Quiet as a mouse? I can sorta agree with that but that far from means he cant be a franchise QB nor does it mean he is never vocal whatsoever. We have a player like that on our team in Poz right now and nobody questions whether or not he is the leader of the defense yet he rarely speaks.
And the NFL scouts and execs werent quiet he was liked all around and given praise for his film study and knowledge of defenses and even his footwork which i havent seen questioned on any site or scouting report. The only issue he has was deep accuracy. I find it funy you are talking about the media machine making a player when Manziel is nothing but a product of the media machine.
The thin thing is my biggest concern, but I remember making note during training camp several years ago that Mark Brunell was a guy who had tiny calves and ankles. It was a stark contrast to David Garrard and his tree trunk legs. When they were on the field together during camp, it was an interesting contrast.
Brunell rarely had lower leg issues. The one knee injury was his biggest problem. Despite the spindly legs, he was fairly durable. The difference for Mark was he had a thick upper body, much more so than Bridgewater. I'm more concerned about that because things like rib, shoulder, and back injuries can be more of a concern for a guy who isn't durable enough.
Quote:What early reports by GMs?!?
What kind of reports do GMs file?
To whom?!?
How would you have access to them?
Scouts, including BLESTO scouts file reports to GMs. I know because I've seen them.
But what "reports" do GMs file and with whom?
Here comes your broom to sweep it all under the rug again.
I've cited the sources in the past where folks were whispering their doubts from the start. If you'd like, I can dig them up. Or, you can do your own homework. Let me know. For someone seemingly so concerned, I'm surprised that you only care to bring questions, and not answers, to the table.
Frangie just today talked about his encounter with a scout who flat out said he didn't like him. Said his wrists and ankles were ridiculously slight. Now is that really a surprise when it's proven he can't grip the football without a WR glove and his weight dropped under 190? Do I need to link the article, for probably the sixth time, that explains why GMs are looking for people with more "ideal" size per position moreso than they are looking for college production? Any time any story like this is reported, it gets swept under the rug from the guys who are "all in" for Ted and their heads keep spinning... they keep asking "why?" and refuse to see the very real signs and reasons he's not rated as highly as some would like.
Toss it all out if you wish. That's fine. Just ask yourself one question, since you seem to love questions:
What top of the draft QB that experienced such a fall from grace re: draft stock (the supposed top guy who fell,) actually proved them all wrong?
They may fall for reasons we disagree with or reasons even unknown, for reasons we don't understand or perhaps we don't want to understand because we disagree, but rest assured those reasons are real. It didn't happen with Luck and wasn't going to. But it did with guys like Clausen and Quinn. And therein lies the answer. There's a direct correlation between value and risk. The mirage isn't the fall, the mirage was the pedestal that some chose to put him on prematurely.
Interestingly, I was reading on the NFL website just now that Mack could be better than Clowney, that Manziel could drop to the bottom of the first round and that we could be selecting Jake Robinson with our first round pick.
Confusing, isn't it ?
It's almost as if the sports writers can't make up their minds.
Quote:Here comes your broom to sweep it all under the rug again.
I've cited the sources in the past where folks were whispering their doubts from the start. If you'd like, I can dig them up. Or, you can do your own homework. Let me know. For someone seemingly so concerned, I'm surprised that you only care to bring questions, and not answers, to the table.
Frangie just today talked about his encounter with a scout who flat out said he didn't like him. Said his wrists and ankles were ridiculously slight. Now is that really a surprise when it's proven he can't grip the football without a WR glove and his weight dropped under 190? Do I need to link the article, for probably the sixth time, that explains why GMs are looking for people with more "ideal" size per position moreso than they are looking for college production? Any time any story like this is reported, it gets swept under the rug from the guys who are "all in" for Ted and their heads keep spinning... they keep asking "why?" and refuse to see the very real signs and reasons he's not rated as highly as some would like.
Toss it all out if you wish. That's fine. Just ask yourself one question, since you seem to love questions:
What top of the draft QB that experienced such a fall from grace re: draft stock (the supposed top guy who fell,) actually proved them all wrong?
They may fall for reasons we disagree with or reasons even unknown, for reasons we don't understand or perhaps we don't want to understand because we disagree, but rest assured those reasons are real. It didn't happen with Luck and wasn't going to. But it did with guys like Clausen and Quinn. And therein lies the answer. There's a direct correlation between value and risk. The mirage isn't the fall, the mirage was the pedestal that some chose to put him on prematurely.
As I thought.
I did not reject or sweep under the rug any concerns with Bridgewater. I specifically mentioned his lack of prototype size as a legitimate non race based reason for a team not wanting to draft him top 5 in a different thread about a month or two ago.
All I did in my response to you was ask about GM reports.
Funny you mentioned GMs early opinions of Bridgewater. On NFL Network just yesterday, former GM Charlie Casserly said that just after the football season the consensus among NFL GMs was that Bridgewater was the top QB.
But strangely, he made no mention of any reports.
Quote:Scouts, including BLESTO scouts file reports to GMs. I know because I've seen them.
How detailed are these reports?
Quote:How detailed are these reports?
Quite.
Aside from a prospect's contact information/home address, and the name of the scout who filed the report, the BLESTO scouting reports show which games the scouts viewed to obtain the information, height, weights, 40 times and grades on things like athletic ability and intelligence, and an overall summary of the prospect.
They won't read like a scouting report you might find in say, Lindy's draft preview, but there's lots of information in them.
I have some old ones somewhere, and if I can dig them up, I'll try to scan one to the board if I can, with the player's personal contact information redacted, of course.
Quote:http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-pa...ck-falling
Here is Casserly yesterday.
More from Casserly:
http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/09/jimmy-garop...nfl-draft/
This was a radio interview with Lande on 1010xl
http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...years-qbs/
This was February, well before the infamous Pro Day debacle. In fact, this was roughly
three weeks prior to the combine.
Again, this has been discussed ad nauseum. There are plenty more examples in threads on this board if you care to look. Let's not act as if I hadn't been handing out such links and information this whole time. I have. So much so, I've been accused of not having my own opinion, when in fact I was only using the links to support the opinion I had already formed. Folks acted like I was crazy for being one of the only ones on the board who weren't sold, and I found evidence where GMs and scouts had tipped they felt similarly about the lack of quality at the top of the class.
And truly, the quote from Dave Caldwell himself in my sig says quite a lot as well. Those aren't the types of things said about candidates like Luck, etc. So right there, it should be clear we're not talking about the same ballpark of prospects.
So really, I would advise that if you don't want the answer to the question you're looking for, don't ask the question. The truth may not be what you're wanting or willing to hear.
Guys just think... in a full NFL season, Bridgewater could slim down to like 155. Not good fellas.
Quote:The thin thing is my biggest concern, but I remember making note during training camp several years ago that Mark Brunell was a guy who had tiny calves and ankles. It was a stark contrast to David Garrard and his tree trunk legs. When they were on the field together during camp, it was an interesting contrast.
Brunell rarely had lower leg issues. The one knee injury was his biggest problem. Despite the spindly legs, he was fairly durable. The difference for Mark was he had a thick upper body, much more so than Bridgewater. I'm more concerned about that because things like rib, shoulder, and back injuries can be more of a concern for a guy who isn't durable enough.
If you think about it, Garrard wasn't all that durable either. I think the way you get a durable QB is by minimizing hits. Skinny legs, thick legs, muscular body, not muscular... they can all get hurt. I don't think it matters.
Mayock went over-the-top talking about how much he loved the Alualu pick when it was made.
/thread
Quote:Guys just think... in a full NFL season, Bridgewater could slim down to like 155. Not good fellas.
What i heard he dropped to 125 a week before the bowl game......
Quote:What i heard he dropped to 125 a week before the bowl game......
One of these days he might just disappear from malnutrition