Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Caldwell just said he still believe in Bortles but the new HC will have a lot of input about the QB situation. 

Perfect.

 

That's exactly how it should be. Not like what happened in Chicago where Fox was stuck to Cutler.

Quote:Caldwell just said he still believe in Bortles but the new HC will have a lot of input about the QB situation. 

 

Whether a believer or not, I'd hope the next HC (with the help of the GM) will have an actionable contingency plan regardless.

 

It's fine giving Bortles the opportunity to earn and keep his job.

 

But there also must be true, viable competition as well in case they must move on quickly.

Quote:This is the most important question of the upcoming offseason, IMO.  It determines the scope of the HC search. 

 

Clearly, I think that DC is wise enough to draft or acquire a viable second option/upgrade to Bortles for his next HC. And while I haven't set a "2nd round or sooner" limitation like our fellow poster just did I would be severely disappointed if Caldwell doesn't provide real competition at the position. 

I just think it's highly unlikely that Dave is going to give up on Brandon Allen yet, and our QB depth chart isn't going to be Bortles and two late round QBs with zero experience so that takes out a day 3 QB in the draft. 

 

Most likely is Bortles/veteran/Allen, but Bortles/high pick/Allen is an option.

Caldwell also mentioned that Gus was NOT his guy, but was the guy the group (Mark, Shad, Tony) wanted. 

 

So we can stop using that as reason #1 to fire him.

Quote:I just think it's highly unlikely that Dave is going to give up on Brandon Allen yet, and our QB depth chart isn't going to be Bortles and two late round QBs with zero experience so that takes out a day 3 QB in the draft. 

 

Most likely is Bortles/veteran/Allen, but Bortles/high pick/Allen is an option.

I think Bortles/mid-round pick/Allen is also an option.  The boards will change, but there are some intriguing prospects looking to last till the third and fourth round right now.

I'd stay tuned and quit placing all these parameters everywhere if I were you. 

 

An hour ago you'd have everyone believing that Dave was going to force any coaching candidate to start Bortles no matter what.  How'd that turn out? 

Quote:Caldwell also mentioned that Gus was NOT his guy, but was the guy the group (Mark, Shad, Tony) wanted. 

 

So we can stop using that as reason #1 to fire him.

 

It wasn't stated that bluntly, actually. I'm sure the verbatim quote will surface soon, but the question was about how comfortable he'd be hiring someone outside of his circle of knowledge  - not one of his acquaintances or someone he had experience with within the league.

 

(Someone he doesn't know or know a lot about.) 

 

He responded that Gus was that type of guy when they were interviewing but that he made a decision based on what he thought was best for the organization.  That does imply that he was accepting some input - or somewhat influenced by others opinions on Gus - but it doesn't say "he wasn't my guy." 

Quote:Caldwell also mentioned that Gus was NOT his guy, but was the guy the group (Mark, Shad, Tony) wanted. 

 

So we can stop using that as reason #1 to fire him.

 

Ahh... so we're back to the committee system (sponsored by Teflon^TM.)

 

What's old is new again.

 

Round and round, and round we go...

Quote:You forgot about the additional 5th year that he offered Gus.   Heck, Shad probably didn't want that extra $3.5 million anyway that Gus will be paid for the 2017 season.

 

Why do people keep bringing this up?

 

If you were familiar with how the NFL works (and the NBA and MLB) this is standard operating procedure. You almost never see a head coach go into a lame duck year. That coach would have no leverage or authority with the players.

 

You can like it or not, but that's the way it works. See Jeff Fisher. It's a cost of doing business and obviously does not preclude letting someone go.

 

The extension had nothing to do with Caldwell being smart or dumb.

Quote:It's disingenuous to call either Bortles or Fowler a miss at his point in time, IMO.  Fowler tore an ACL, which is a huge deal for a defensive lineman, especially one who is heavily reliant on speed.  It's also his first 14 games in the NFL.  There's also the issue of our defensive scheme, which seems to put almost nobody in a position to be successful.  Our coaching has certainly had an impact.

Yeah, Fowler hasn't shown me anything, but too soon to call him a bust, just very underwhelming to this point.


 

Bortles has been awful this year, but when asked, said that nobody on staff had even mentioned his mechanics to him.  He looked great last year (despite the garbage time arguments) and many had pegged both he and Carr as the next great QBs.  Carr improved, he regressed.  It's possible he's not fixable, but he does have talent.  30 other teams missed on Carr, as well.

Agreed. He gets one more year to battle better internal competition and get it together. If not, bye. This is one reason I think the Jags are more attractive to some coaches. If Bortles comes back a gamer, it is gravy. If not, the new coach isn't handcuffed with him. 


 

Our receivers have clearly given up--especially A-Rob.  We scheme nobody open.  We just line them up across from the corners and expect them to beat the coverage.  This entire team has an attitude that screams they've given up--and that reflects leadership.

I would put it a bit differently, but not too much argument. To me it seems the guys genuinely like Gus, but are totally perplexed that their efforts aren't working out better. To me, a lot of that is on coaching, and I get the feeling the guys have little confidence in that area of Gus's job. Total conjecture, but that is my feel. It isn't that they've thrown in the towel, more that they have no faith in the coaches abilities.


 

Joeckel is clearly a bust, but it was the right pick.  That entire draft was awful.  The fact that Cyprien is even average is a victory in my book.

Maybe terminology, but I am gonna brave the rotten tomatoes and say that neither Joeckel nor Cyprien were busts. Obviously, you want your high draft picks to be worthy of a second contract with the team. But to me a bust is an RJ Soward, a Jerry Porter, someone like that. There are disappointments and busts. Disappointments are players that don't live up to what you paid for them, but contributed. Alualu was a bit of a disappointment. Cyprien is a disappointment. Joeckel was a disappointment, but with him, I factor in the non-resigning of Monroe and feel a good bit better. Dave has had a number of disappointments, but the only real flat out busts I can recall are that Watson guy, and Slowby.  Heck even Beadles, as bad as he was was a semi-productive body. Beadles and Gerhardt are the two regular starters I put closest to bust status. 


 

Players have come to this team, looked good, and become worse as time went on.  It's coaching.  The talent gleaned in the later rounds speaks for itself.  It's possible that Caldwell remains unsuccessful, but you can't pin all the problems on him.

Or even most problems. The fact that we have at least a decent talent level (and to my mind one of the better in the division speaks well. To me, our cap situation is equally important, and I think he has done a great job there.

Quote:Caldwell also mentioned that Gus was NOT his guy, but was the guy the group (Mark, Shad, Tony) wanted. 

 

So we can stop using that as reason #1 to fire him.

He actually corrected himself.

Quote:Why do people keep bringing this up?

 

If you were familiar with how the NFL works (and the NBA and MLB) this is standard operating procedure. You almost never see a head coach go into a lame duck year. That coach would have no leverage or authority with the players.

 

You can like it or not, but that's the way it works. See Jeff Fisher. It's a cost of doing business and obviously does not preclude letting someone go.

 

The extension had nothing to do with Caldwell being smart or dumb.

 

You almost never see a coach compile the WORST WINNING % IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL EITHER.  It's not like teams were beating down his door to lure him away from Jacksonville.

Quote:He actually corrected himself.

 

He backpedaled out of the comment to make it more PC.  There's a big difference.

 

He didn't say he disagreed with it, when asked about signing a guy that he wasn't completely comfortable with, but others (referring to Shad/Tony/Mark) were, he continued his "It's not about me, it's about the organization" stance and said "I did that with Gus" and then immediately realized how that came out and backpedaled.

 

Personally, I take that as a GOOD sign.  Our GM wasn't head over heals for Gus as some like to portray it.  He was comfortable enough to more forward with it, but it isn't as glaring of a mark against him as some made it seem previously.

 

And if all of that WAS in fact the case, it gives him more leverage in THIS HC choice if Gus WASN'T really his guy.  He can basically look across the table and be like "Hey, listen to me this time".

Quote:You almost never see a coach compile the WORST WINNING % IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL EITHER.  It's not like teams were beating down his door to lure him away from Jacksonville.

 

So you choose not to get it?

 

It'll all be different when you're running the team.

 

(Great job with THE CAPS).

Quote:He backpedaled out of the comment to make it more PC.  There's a big difference.

 

He didn't say he disagreed with it, when asked about signing a guy that he wasn't completely comfortable with, but others (referring to Shad/Tony/Mark) were, he continued his "It's not about me, it's about the organization" stance and said "I did that with Gus" and then immediately realized how that came out and backpedaled.

 

Personally, I take that as a GOOD sign.  Our GM wasn't head over heals for Gus as some like to portray it.  He was comfortable enough to more forward with it, but it isn't as glaring of a mark against him as some made it seem previously.

 

And if all of that WAS in fact the case, it gives him more leverage in THIS HC choice if Gus WASN'T really his guy.  He can basically look across the table and be like "Hey, listen to me this time".

 

It's going to be a group choice anyway - with Caldwell having a little more than "equal" voice - because no one knows for sure!

 

We're dealing with humans being put into a team situation  - dealing with people he's never even met before. It's a great unknown.

 

If it works out - hey, he's a genius. If not - see ya.

 

You think Robert Kraft was absolutely certain when he hired Hoodie? I bet not.

Quote:He backpedaled out of the comment to make it more PC.  There's a big difference.

 

He didn't say he disagreed with it, when asked about signing a guy that he wasn't completely comfortable with, but others (referring to Shad/Tony/Mark) were, he continued his "It's not about me, it's about the organization" stance and said "I did that with Gus" and then immediately realized how that came out and backpedaled.

 

Personally, I take that as a GOOD sign.  Our GM wasn't head over heals for Gus as some like to portray it.  He was comfortable enough to more forward with it, but it isn't as glaring of a mark against him as some made it seem previously.

 

And if all of that WAS in fact the case, it gives him more leverage in THIS HC choice if Gus WASN'T really his guy.  He can basically look across the table and be like "Hey, listen to me this time".

 

I took his comment as what NY said. He made a quick comment "it was like that with gus", then realized it could have been taken out of context given how the question was phrased and then clarified. There's an article or comment waaaaay back when Gus was hired about how Dave and Gus were basically in the room for 12 hours talking about their plan, scheme, etc. When you spend that much time with the candidate before hiring him, you didn't get "talked" into it, you made your own decision.

 

And clearly, based on Dave's facial expressions today, letting Gus go was difficult for him. 

 

There's a lot of hate towards Gus, and perhaps rightfully so because of the record. But take a look and listen to Dave, Doug, and players like Miller, Myers, McCray, etc. These guys respected Gus and are genuinely hurt that they've let him down.

Quote:He backpedaled out of the comment to make it more PC.  There's a big difference.

 

He didn't say he disagreed with it, when asked about signing a guy that he wasn't completely comfortable with, but others (referring to Shad/Tony/Mark) were, he continued his "It's not about me, it's about the organization" stance and said "I did that with Gus" and then immediately realized how that came out and backpedaled.

 

Personally, I take that as a GOOD sign.  Our GM wasn't head over heals for Gus as some like to portray it.  He was comfortable enough to more forward with it, but it isn't as glaring of a mark against him as some made it seem previously.

 

And if all of that WAS in fact the case, it gives him more leverage in THIS HC choice if Gus WASN'T really his guy.  He can basically look across the table and be like "Hey, listen to me this time".

If they were not as tight as it was made out to be...... what do you think about the Myles Jack situation? 

To me it seems like Myles was a Caldwell guy and he pulled the trigger to get him. With the way Gus was using him, i do not think Myles was a Gus guy.

#observations 

Quote:I took his comment as what NY said. He made a quick comment "it was like that with gus", then realized it could have been taken out of context given how the question was phrased and then clarified. There's an article or comment waaaaay back when Gus was hired about how Dave and Gus were basically in the room for 12 hours talking about their plan, scheme, etc. When you spend that much time with the candidate before hiring him, you didn't get "talked" into it, you made your own decision.

 

And clearly, based on Dave's facial expressions today, letting Gus go was difficult for him. 

 

There's a lot of hate towards Gus, and perhaps rightfully so because of the record. But take a look and listen to Dave, Doug, and players like Miller, Myers, McCray, etc. These guys respected Gus and are genuinely hurt that they've let him down.

 

Good points. At least the Jaguars had a coach with class and wasn't a jerk (which may have been easy to become as the loses piled up).

 

I tend to think of the assistants, who need to scramble to find jobs for next year - even though they had to see this coming. 2016 season is not the best thing to have on a resume. There may be a lot of phone calls to places like West Texas State. And their families get to move somewhere else. Again.

Quote:If they were not as tight as it was made out to be...... what do you think about the Myles Jack situation? 

To me it seems like Myles was a Caldwell guy and he pulled the trigger to get him. With the way Gus was using him, i do not think Myles was a Gus guy.

#observations 

Or maybe Myles just couldn't beat out Poz. People need to get off this "agenda" crap. Gus knows his job is on the line and you think he'd bench a superior player because he doesn't like him?

 

If there's a player, drafted or signed, in this roster that screams "Gus" to me, its Fowler. And he got benched for a 3rd rounder that Wash was high on. If there's a guy to "blame" (if you can call it that) for Jack's PT, I'd bet its on Wash.

Quote:Or maybe Myles just couldn't beat out Poz. People need to get off this "agenda" crap. Gus knows his job is on the line and you think he'd bench a superior player because he doesn't like him?

 

If there's a player, drafted or signed, in this roster that screams "Gus" to me, its Fowler. And he got benched for a 3rd rounder that Wash was high on. If there's a guy to "blame" (if you can call it that) for Jack's PT, I'd bet its on Wash.

I bet he would keep a superior on the bench in fear of making a few big rookie mistakes for a guy who would make some small mistakes but not a ton of huge impact plays.

 

Poz has been solid but he isn`t the future as soon as we were out of the playoffs Myles should have seen more time at MLB so we could see what he has.

Retaining Caldwell is a laughable mistake. Don't understand the owners thought process at all here, the GM has been nearly as bad as the coaching here.


Wake me up in 3 years.