I really feel like they SHOULD go LT and grab Matthews. Robinson may be better but you didn't get to truly gauge his talent blocking for Auburns offense. Clowney presents the BAP if he is there at 2 but what about Barr/Mack? They would have arguably the best front 7 in the NFL
Quote:I really feel like they SHOULD go LT and grab Matthews. Robinson may be better but you didn't get to truly gauge his talent blocking for Auburns offense. Clowney presents the BAP if he is there at 2 but what about Barr/Mack? They would have arguably the best front 7 in the NFL
I think that's the concern with Robinson, exactly.
I don't think it's size or athletic ability.
I think there will be some questions about him blocking in Auburn's run oriented scheme and his ability to pass block.
How is his technique as a result of being in that scheme? Is he coachable?
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Rams go with Watkins with their first pick. There will be another good LT sitting there at their second first round pick
Quote:In seemingly everybody's predraft speculation (at least everybody on this board) the prevailing thought is that the Rams will definitely take an OT at 2 with the loss of Jake Long.
It seems to be a sensible take.
Whether it's Jake Matthews, or Auburn's Robinson climbing up the boards, the Rams taking a T at 2 seems to be the perfect balance of need meeting value.
But this article from the St. Louis Post dispatch seems to question that comfortable assumption with a look at how Jeff Fisher built his teams.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/b...50443.html
(BTW...Fisher STILL sucks)
If Fisher's seemingly having a philosophy of not drafting OLS high wins out here, in what direction would the Rams go, and how would that impact the Jaguars at 3?
For the purposes of this discussion, we will not go into Snead's publicly stated desire to trade down from two and focus solely on assuming the Rams stay at two.
While with the tacks, Fisher took at least two QBs in the first round-McNair and Vince Young. Bradford hasn't exactly lit the league on fire-even though much of that is for reasons beyond his control. Bradford also hasn't been healthy. With two first round picks in the top 13, the Rams could go QB and still be able to draft a LT at 13. If the Rams were to take the Jaguars' guy at QB, it could potentially mess up the entire draft, although if it left the Jaguars with with Clowney, that wouldn't be a bad consolation prize. If Clowney and their QB of choice is gone in the first two picks, I think Jacksonville trades down to a T hungry team (Oakland might be the first landing spot, with Tampa and Buffalo also in the mix).
Fisher's Tennessee teams also took DL three times during his tenure (DE Kenny Holmes, DE Jevon Kearse, and DT Al Haynesworth). While Clowney certainly meets value at 2, and some have mocked guys like Barr and Mack into the top 5, DE doesn't meet a need there. The Rams are already stacked at DE with Long and Quinn at DE. Furthermore, running Clowney, Barr or Mack as stand up OLBs don't appear to be scheme fits in their defense. Fisher likes the athletic and all around LBs who can blitz and drop effectively into coverage (think Eddie Robinson and Ogletree for current ideals at LB). Clowney, Barr and Mack all are relative unknown quantities regarding pass drops, and putting them in coverage would seem to waste their considerable pass rushing skills. As it stands now, no DT appears to carry a top 5 grade, but even if one did, the Rams appear set at DT, having just drafted Michael Brockers. On the other hand, the teams above them in the division-most notably Seattle and San Francisco-believe in pounding the ball. You could argue Seatlle needs more beef up front to counter those attacks. But if Fisher still wanted a DT early, they should still be able to get one at 13 to pair with Brockers.
Theoretically, though unlikely, they COULD go Watkins at 2. Watkins would enable Austin to move inside to the slot position and give opposing secondaries matchup nightmares. But Fisher has always been a ball control guy, not much of an air it out philosophy, and such a move would run counter to that ball control, grind it out philosophy. Such a development would seemingly represent a best case scenario for Jaguars fans who would want either a QB or Clowney.
The only other areas that seem to be a need for the Rams (and arguably isn't much of a need considering Zac Stacy's respectable rookie performance) are RB and CB-where the Rams may want to get younger at Finnegan's spot. Again, no player at either position seems to warrant the #2 overall spot.
Of course, all of this could very easily be moot. Snead could win out on any draft day decisions and take the T at 2. Of course, there is also the trade down possibility.
The question I have is what offers more positive possibilities/negative repercussions for the Jaguars...the Rams staying at 2 with Fisher's draft philosophy...the Rams staying at 2 with Snead's philosophy (whatever that might be), or the Rams trading down?
If they don't take and OT or trade back, I'd guess that they'd take Sammy Watkins. Fisher was REALLY mad when the Jags jumped him for Blackmon 2 years ago and they need WR's.
The only reason anybody thinks the Rams should draft a left tackle is they worry too much about the small risk of an ACL tear ruining a young player's career. Although I am fully aware it has happened before, I also know the Rams have no interest in replacing a quarterback who tore his ACL so there is no reason to think they would want to get rid of a left tackle because he suffered that injury.
I don't read mocks, but while watching the Senior Bowl I saw Daniel Jeremiah has the Rams picking Sammy Watkins.
Quote:The only problem I have with the idea of Clowney going #2 to the Rams-besides the fact I'd want him here-is where does he fit with the Rams?
The Jaguars ran a 3-LEO package late in the year, with Babin, Branch and Davis all on the field together. The way the NFL is built today, if a pass-rusher of Clowney's caliber is on top of the Rams' board when they pick, I'd be surprised if they didn't take him and use him to create the best defensive end group in the league.
The Rams may take Jake Matthews out of loyalty between Jeff Fisher and Jake's father, hall of famer Bruce Matthews.
The fact that they lost another offensive tackle named Jake (Long, ACL etc.) might have weight enough to draft Matthews as well.
By the same token, if the Rams are worried about Jake Long not returning, they might also be squirming about Sam Bradford (torn ACL) not returning.
St. Louis is a great place for Teddy Bridgewater to go. I really believe he fits like a glove within Fisher's entire philosophy of football. Teddy to the Rams is an awesome thing to think about.
I think I might want to head over to the Rams message boards right now and tell them what a terrific quarterback Teddy will be as a St. Louis Ram.
Quote:The Rams may take Jake Matthews out of loyalty between Jeff Fisher and Jake's father, hall of famer Bruce Matthews.
The fact that they lost another offensive tackle named Jake (Long, ACL etc.) might have weight enough to draft Matthews as well.
By the same token, if the Rams are worried about Jake Long not returning, they might also be squirming about Sam Bradford (torn ACL) not returning.
St. Louis is a great place for Teddy Bridgewater to go. I really believe he fits like a glove within Fisher's entire philosophy of football. Teddy to the Rams is an awesome thing to think about.
I think I might want to head over to the Rams message boards right now and tell them what a terrific quarterback Teddy will be as a St. Louis Ram.
But wait... if they take Matthews, what on earth are we going to do with our pick? We need as many top pick linemen as possible.
/sarcasm
Quote:The Rams may take Jake Matthews out of loyalty between Jeff Fisher and Jake's father, hall of famer Bruce Matthews.
The fact that they lost another offensive tackle named Jake (Long, ACL etc.) might have weight enough to draft Matthews as well.
By the same token, if the Rams are worried about Jake Long not returning, they might also be squirming about Sam Bradford (torn ACL) not returning.
St. Louis is a great place for Teddy Bridgewater to go. I really believe he fits like a glove within Fisher's entire philosophy of football. Teddy to the Rams is an awesome thing to think about.
I think I might want to head over to the Rams message boards right now and tell them what a terrific quarterback Teddy will be as a St. Louis Ram.
Why didn't you read any of my post? I clearly explained why an ACL tear does
not in any way affect who the Rams will draft.
Quote:The Jaguars ran a 3-LEO package late in the year, with Babin, Branch and Davis all on the field together. The way the NFL is built today, if a pass-rusher of Clowney's caliber is on top of the Rams' board when they pick, I'd be surprised if they didn't take him and use him to create the best defensive end group in the league.
we ran it on third and longs or guaranteed passing downs pretty much exclusively if i remember rightly
to restrict a high value de to that just does't make sense to me
Quote:In seemingly everybody's predraft speculation (at least everybody on this board) the prevailing thought is that the Rams will definitely take an OT at 2 with the loss of Jake Long.
It seems to be a sensible take.
Whether it's Jake Matthews, or Auburn's Robinson climbing up the boards, the Rams taking a T at 2 seems to be the perfect balance of need meeting value.
But this article from the St. Louis Post dispatch seems to question that comfortable assumption with a look at how Jeff Fisher built his teams.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/b...50443.html
(BTW...Fisher STILL sucks)
If Fisher's seemingly having a philosophy of not drafting OLS high wins out here, in what direction would the Rams go, and how would that impact the Jaguars at 3?
For the purposes of this discussion, we will not go into Snead's publicly stated desire to trade down from two and focus solely on assuming the Rams stay at two.
While with the tacks, Fisher took at least two QBs in the first round-McNair and Vince Young. Bradford hasn't exactly lit the league on fire-even though much of that is for reasons beyond his control. Bradford also hasn't been healthy. With two first round picks in the top 13, the Rams could go QB and still be able to draft a LT at 13. If the Rams were to take the Jaguars' guy at QB, it could potentially mess up the entire draft, although if it left the Jaguars with with Clowney, that wouldn't be a bad consolation prize. If Clowney and their QB of choice is gone in the first two picks, I think Jacksonville trades down to a T hungry team (Oakland might be the first landing spot, with Tampa and Buffalo also in the mix).
Fisher's Tennessee teams also took DL three times during his tenure (DE Kenny Holmes, DE Jevon Kearse, and DT Al Haynesworth). While Clowney certainly meets value at 2, and some have mocked guys like Barr and Mack into the top 5, DE doesn't meet a need there. The Rams are already stacked at DE with Long and Quinn at DE. Furthermore, running Clowney, Barr or Mack as stand up OLBs don't appear to be scheme fits in their defense. Fisher likes the athletic and all around LBs who can blitz and drop effectively into coverage (think Eddie Robinson and Ogletree for current ideals at LB). Clowney, Barr and Mack all are relative unknown quantities regarding pass drops, and putting them in coverage would seem to waste their considerable pass rushing skills. As it stands now, no DT appears to carry a top 5 grade, but even if one did, the Rams appear set at DT, having just drafted Michael Brockers. On the other hand, the teams above them in the division-most notably Seattle and San Francisco-believe in pounding the ball. You could argue Seatlle needs more beef up front to counter those attacks. But if Fisher still wanted a DT early, they should still be able to get one at 13 to pair with Brockers.
Theoretically, though unlikely, they COULD go Watkins at 2. Watkins would enable Austin to move inside to the slot position and give opposing secondaries matchup nightmares. But Fisher has always been a ball control guy, not much of an air it out philosophy, and such a move would run counter to that ball control, grind it out philosophy. Such a development would seemingly represent a best case scenario for Jaguars fans who would want either a QB or Clowney.
The only other areas that seem to be a need for the Rams (and arguably isn't much of a need considering Zac Stacy's respectable rookie performance) are RB and CB-where the Rams may want to get younger at Finnegan's spot. Again, no player at either position seems to warrant the #2 overall spot.
Of course, all of this could very easily be moot. Snead could win out on any draft day decisions and take the T at 2. Of course, there is also the trade down possibility.
The question I have is what offers more positive possibilities/negative repercussions for the Jaguars...the Rams staying at 2 with Fisher's draft philosophy...the Rams staying at 2 with Snead's philosophy (whatever that might be), or the Rams trading down?
I see the Rams doing anything they can to trade out of the 2nd slot. Even if they do want to take a tackle....they can trade down several spots and would still be likely to get Matthews/Robinson or even Lewan. I think ultimately they trade down and take one of those three with Sammy Watkins being a dark horse candidate. Clowney is another dark horse simply because I think teams will fall in love with his unheard of size/speed/athleticism.
*EDIT* Great thread by the way with many people seeing the Rams taking a tackle at the 2 spot a foregone conclusion.
Quote:we ran it on third and longs or guaranteed passing downs pretty much exclusively if i remember rightly
to restrict a high value de to that just does't make sense to me
This is what I was thinking. You would reduce one of three highly drafted stud DEs to a part time player.
Quote:If they don't take and OT or trade back, I'd guess that they'd take Sammy Watkins. Fisher was REALLY mad when the Jags jumped him for Blackmon 2 years ago and they need WR's.
Yes, there is a need there, but somehow I don't think that likely. If they traded down to between 3-5, I could easily see that.
Quote:The only reason anybody thinks the Rams should draft a left tackle is they worry too much about the small risk of an ACL tear ruining a young player's career. Although I am fully aware it has happened before, I also know the Rams have no interest in replacing a quarterback who tore his ACL so there is no reason to think they would want to get rid of a left tackle because he suffered that injury.
I don't read mocks, but while watching the Senior Bowl I saw Daniel Jeremiah has the Rams picking Sammy Watkins.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=st-louis-rams&id=4508&src=desktop'>http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=st-louis-rams&id=4508&src=desktop</a>
First off, Jake Long isn't exactly young in football terms.
Secondly he tore both his ACL and MCL and he tore them both in the next to last game of the season which was in December. If you recall,Tony Boselli tore his ACL in the last game of the 1999 season and he was out or at least nowhere near a hundred percent until November or so. Even if you assume the best case scenario, Jake Long may not be ready until the same time, and who can speak to his effectiveness when he returns?
Furthermore Rams right tackle settled is slated to be a free agent. He may not even be on the team next year. The Rams could be going into the mate a draft with holes at both tackle spot.
keep in mind the Rams play in a division featuring some of the best pass rushers as individuals and pass rushing teams in the league. Aldon Smith is no slouch and neither is Justin Smith or the Seattle defensive front. Believe me tackle is a definite need for the Rams.
Quote:I see the Rams doing anything they can to trade out of the 2nd slot. Even if they do want to take a tackle....they can trade down several spots and would still be likely to get Matthews/Robinson or even Lewan. I think ultimately they trade down and take one of those three with Sammy Watkins being a dark horse candidate. Clowney is another dark horse simply because I think teams will fall in love with his unheard of size/speed/athleticism.
*EDIT* Great thread by the way with many people seeing the Rams taking a tackle at the 2 spot a foregone conclusion.
Thanks. I thought it was an interesting topic since they basically hold the key to our draft. As to the substance of your post you and I are in complete agreement.
Quote:First off, Jake Long isn't exactly young in football terms.
Secondly he tore both his ACL and MCL and he tore them both in the next to last game of the season which was in December. If you recall,Tony Boselli tore his ACL in the last game of the 1999 season and he was out or at least nowhere near a hundred percent until November or so. Even if you assume the best case scenario, Jake Long may not be ready until the same time, and who can speak to his effectiveness when he returns?
Furthermore Rams right tackle settled is slated to be a free agent. He may not even be on the team next year. The Rams could be going into the mate a draft with holes at both tackle spot.
Keep in mind the Rams play in a division featuring some of the best pass rushers as individuals and pass rushing teams in the league. Aldon Smith is no slouch and neither is Justin Smith or the Seattle defensive front. Believe me tackle is a definite need for the Rams.
How old is Jake Long?
Tony Boselli was still a very good player after he fully recovered from his torn ACL. A shoulder injury was what shortened his career.
So people should be talking about the right tackle leaving in free agency instead of Long's knee if they think the Rams should pick Jake Matthews.
Quote:How old is Jake Long?
Tony Boselli was still a very good player after he fully recovered from his torn ACL. A shoulder injury was what shortened his career.
So people should be talking about the right tackle leaving in free agency instead of Long's knee if they think the Rams should pick Jake Matthews.
Jake Long turns 29 in May, and he's had injuries prior to this knee injury that limited his effectiveness, which is why Miami got rid of him.
Boselli was still a very good player
after he fully recovered from his torn ACL.
Three important things about that sentence immediately above this one.
1. Jake Long is no Tony Boselli.
2. Boselli approached his level of play AFTER he fully recovered...in about November of the following year. He played before then, but wasn't quite the same. There is no reason to expect Long to fare any better, even accounting for increased surgical techniques in fixing ACL tears since 1999.
3. Boselli "only" had a torn ACL. Long has torn the ACL & MCL in his knee.
Quote:If they don't take and OT or trade back, I'd guess that they'd take Sammy Watkins. Fisher was REALLY mad when the Jags jumped him for Blackmon 2 years ago and they need WR's.
Oh, to rewind the clock, not make the trade, and let Fisher deal with Blackmon's messes. A Watkins pick would make sense if the Rams feel like he's really worth the second spot ahead of Clowney or a QB.
I seem to recall reading that Stephon Gilmore and Luke Kuechly were both high on Gene's board. I'd love to have either of those two on board.
.gif "Laughing")