Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:I don't worry about that until after the Super Bowl.

I will quote you on that if you do not mind.

Quote:I will quote you on that if you do not mind.

 

Fine with me. I never thought about the draft before the last two first round picks were assigned.

Quote:Fine with me. I never thought about the draft before the last two first round picks were assigned.

How do you assess BAP if that is the case? It is a domino effect...

Quote:Fine with me. I never thought about the draft before the last two first round picks were assigned.

Sounds like how Gene Smith approached the draft.

My take on the question that the OP asked is along the lines of what some expressed in this thread.   While the # 1 pick doesn't guarantee anything in terms of results,   the higher the pick,  the greater the chance that a player will pan out.

 

Probably the best way the Jaguars should approach the rest of the season is to start any player that the team brass considers as someone who has a pretty good or better chance of being part of the team's long term future.   Providing that the player has displayed enough in practice to warrant the opportunity.   Otherwise,  play the players that give the Jaguars the best chance of winning.   Based on the team being in a rebuilding mode in terms of how the team was constructed this season,   this formula probably will result in a top 5 pick.  If that ends up being the case,   there will be a great opportunity to get a foundation piece in Round 1 and still get a high quality prospect in the upper part of Round 2.  

Quote:It is important to look at all of the details here. First of all why did the Browns and Rams trade down? The Falcons and Redskins called them, that's why. And those teams gave up the farm, not just two picks like most teams would do, receiving plenty of criticism for trading so much. In other words the Browns and Rams received trade offers that were too good to resist. I don't think they ever planned to trade down before getting weird phone calls.

 

Second, how much did drafting a quarterback with the #1 pick help the Lions, Rams, Panthers, and Colts, who obviously would not be so bad if they needed nothing else and also got new coaches? Maybe not the Panthers, but I know the Lions, Rams, and Colts got new head coaches a few months before drafting new quarterbacks. So all this talk about a new quarterback will fix everything is stretching the truth. That said, it is obvious without new quarterbacks, they would all still have losing records.

 

So let's dig deeper. What other positions did those four teams upgrade the same year they picked quarterbacks or since then? Were they all need-based or BAP drafts?   How many other positions were upgraded since they drafted quarterbacks? We have to look at those things too, not just the quarterbacks who were selected.

 

    Regarding the Lions,  the team was coming off an 0-16 season.   That's all anyone needs to know that one off-season wasn't going to lead to immediate substantial tangible improvement.

 

    In the 2009 Draft,   just focusing on the top 4 Rounds,  in addition to the Matthew Stafford selection with pick # 1,   the Lions also had pick # 20 that season as part of the WR Roy Williams trade to Dallas.   The Lions drafted TE Brandon Pettigrew,  who has been a starter with the team when relatively healthy.   Of late,  Pettigrew has been much more consistent catching the ball.   Blocking has been a strong suit for him for the most part during his time in Detroit.   In Round 2,  the Lions drafted S Louis Delmas,  who has been a major asset when relatively healthy.   Unfortunately,  Delmas missed many games in 2011 and 2012 because of knee injuries.   In Round 3,  the Lions drafted LB DeAndre Levy,   who was a solid player until this season.   In 2013,  Levy leads all LB's with 5 Interceptions and is playing at a Pro Bowl level.   The other 3rd Round pick,  who was acquired in the Roy Williams deal,   was Penn St. WR Derrick Williams.   He was a colossal bust.   In the 4th Round,   the Lions drafted DT Sammie Lee Hill,  who was mainly a good # 3 DT during his stay with the team.   The Lions determined that Hill was too expensive to keep in 2013 as an UFA.   He signed with Tennessee.     In essence,  former Jaguar C.J. Mosley replaced Hill at a much lower price than what Tennessee gave Hill.   Everyone of these 2009 picks call be considered BAP's,   as the Lions had more holes than picks.

 

    The way one should view the Matthew Stafford selection is it wasn't going to pay immediate dividends in terms of taking the Lions from 0-16 to playoff contention.  It's worth keeping in mind that Will James was probably the Lions best CB in 2009.   That illustrates the situation the team was in back then.   The Stafford pick was a long term investment.   The fact that the team went to the playoffs in 2011 as a wildcard with a 10-6 record and the Lions currently being in 1st place in the NFCN with a 6-3 record is in large part because of Stafford.  

 

    Being that the Jaguars have a mega amount of salary cap space,   maybe they can turn things around sooner than the Lions did.    However,  the player the Jaguars draft with their 1st Round selection should be viewed much more for what he can do over the next decade than as a rookie or even in his 2nd season.    It should be a player the Jaguars brass believes would warrant being paid as an elite player when it comes time to negotiate his 2nd contract.

If allowed to fantasize and pretend that I own an NFL franchise I have a very simple plan that would bring a Super Bowl. It is my belief that the game is won at the line of scrimmage. My draft focus would be offensive and defensive lines. Whether it be through draft, free agency or a combination of both I would do whatever possible to have the two most dominant lines in the league. It is also my hypothesis that if a team possesses the nastiest, dominating lines in the league other players in the league will take notice and want to play here.

 

This league is overrun with athletic freaks at the skilled positions, give them the best line to run behind and there are many RB's who are instant pro bowlers. Same goes for QB's, lots of kids out there that if you give them time to throw they will surgically remove your heart with military precision.

 

Build a D line that caves in the opposition and suddenly your corners, LB's and safeties look like world beaters!

 

The game is won in the trenches! Joeckel was a great pick last year. I like Bridgewater but there are several versions of him, not many Clowneys out there.

 

O line and D line emphasis, plug in your BAP, most needed, free agent philosophy however you want. Dominate the line of scrimmage and you control the game.

Quote:If allowed to fantasize and pretend that I own an NFL franchise I have a very simple plan that would bring a Super Bowl. It is my belief that the game is won at the line of scrimmage. My draft focus would be offensive and defensive lines. Whether it be through draft, free agency or a combination of both I would do whatever possible to have the two most dominant lines in the league. It is also my hypothesis that if a team possesses the nastiest, dominating lines in the league other players in the league will take notice and want to play here.

 

This league is overrun with athletic freaks at the skilled positions, give them the best line to run behind and there are many RB's who are instant pro bowlers. Same goes for QB's, lots of kids out there that if you give them time to throw they will surgically remove your heart with military precision.

 

Build a D line that caves in the opposition and suddenly your corners, LB's and safeties look like world beaters!

 

The game is won in the trenches! Joeckel was a great pick last year. I like Bridgewater but there are several versions of him, not many Clowneys out there.

 

O line and D line emphasis, plug in your BAP, most needed, free agent philosophy however you want. Dominate the line of scrimmage and you control the game.

 

  While the Redskins had many highly skilled athletes at other positions,   the formula you mentioned worked well for the Redskins when Joe Gibbs was their HC.    The Redskins won 3 Super Bowls and went to a 4th Super Bowl in a 10 season period.   The trademark of those Redskins teams along with great coaching is they had excellent Offensive and Defensive Lines.   While the passing rules have become more and more in favor of the Offense,    having strong lines would go a very long way in accomplishing getting to the top of the mountain.

Quote:How do you assess BAP if that is the case? It is a domino effect...

 

If I was the GM, I would draft this way: best available player at a position we need. Meaning because we need a quarterback, the best available quarterback.

Quote:If I was the GM, I would draft this way: best available player at a position we need. Meaning because we need a quarterback, the best available quarterback.

 

That's a dangerous formula, and in theory I hate that style of drafting.

Quote:That's a dangerous formula, and in theory I hate that style of drafting.

if it wasnt for that we wouldnt have gotten our great weapon, anger  :woot:

Quote:That's a dangerous formula, and in theory I hate that style of drafting.

 

 

Agreed.   There have been drafts in which no QB warranted being taken in the top 2 Rounds,  based on their draft grades relative to the other players in the draft.

Quote:That's a dangerous formula, and in theory I hate that style of drafting.

 

Why? Wouldn't you rather have JPP on the defensive line than Tyson Alualu? I bet everybody would after watching both players.

 

Quote:If it wasn't for that we wouldnt have gotten our great weapon, Anger.

 

Heero, the whole purpose of this thread is about the first round, not the third. We did not draft Anger in the first round.

Quote:Why? Wouldn't you rather have JPP on the defensive line than Tyson Alualu? I bet everybody would after watching both players.

 

 

Heero, the whole purpose of this thread is about the first round, not the third. We did not draft Anger in the first round.

 

Drafting BAP at a position of need limits the pool your selecting from, just off a pure numbers stand point that's dangerous. So I don't need a DE next draft but what if the next Reggie White's in that draft, you completely missed him because you where busy over drafting a Guard because it was a position of need.

 

At the end of the day BAP or Need drafting both rely on evaluating properly, if you have a good evaluator I think either system can work. I think BAP give's you a competitive advantage however, and what Gene Smith did was not what I mean by BAP, he was a needs drafter I don't care what anyone says.

Quote:Drafting BAP at a position of need limits the pool your selecting from, just off a pure numbers stand point that's dangerous. So I don't need a DE next draft but what if the next Reggie White's in that draft, you completely missed him because you where busy over drafting a Guard because it was a position of need.

 

At the end of the day BAP or Need drafting both rely on evaluating properly, if you have a good evaluator I think either system can work. I think BAP give's you a competitive advantage however, and what Gene Smith did was not what I mean by BAP, he was a needs drafter I don't care what anyone says.

 

You did not answer my question. If you were the GM in 2010 and knew defensive line was a huge need for us, would you pick JPP or Tyson Alualu at #10? Remember we had no second round pick that year because of the Derek Cox trade and Gene Smith would have picked Sean Lee with it.

 

Right now, we actually do need to upgrade defensive end, so the next Reggie White would be filling a need. Same can be said about almost any postion, really. The only positions where your point would make any sense for the first round are middle linebacker, left tackle, and wide receiver.

Quote:You did not answer my question. If you were the GM in 2010 and knew defensive line was a huge need for us, would you pick JPP or Tyson Alualu at #10? Remember we had no second round pick that year because of the Derek Cox trade and Gene Smith would have picked Sean Lee with it.

 

Right now, we actually do need to upgrade defensive end, so the next Reggie White would be filling a need. Same can be said about almost any postion, really. The only positions where your point would make any sense for the first round are middle linebacker, left tackle, and wide receiver.

 

Alualu was just a terrible pick.  He probably shouldn't even have gone until prob the 5th or 6th round. 

Quote:Alualu was just a terrible pick. He probably shouldn't even have gone until probably the 5th or 6th round. 

 

I heard he was projected as a second round pick by everyone except Gene Smith.

 

So you know we did need to fix the defensive line that year but needed a much better lineman. That is my whole point here. You know what you need; now get the best guy at that job.

Quote:I heard he was projected as a second round pick by everyone except Gene Smith.


So you know we did need to fix the defensive line that year but needed a much better lineman. That is my whole point here. You know what you need; now get the best guy at that job.

By most, yes. When I was in London I talked with Oesher about this. He said Indy was considering trading up to the early 20s for him if he was available. May be true, may not be. Kinda interesting tho.

Quote:If allowed to fantasize and pretend that I own an NFL franchise I have a very simple plan that would bring a Super Bowl. It is my belief that the game is won at the line of scrimmage. My draft focus would be offensive and defensive lines. Whether it be through draft, free agency or a combination of both I would do whatever possible to have the two most dominant lines in the league. It is also my hypothesis that if a team possesses the nastiest, dominating lines in the league other players in the league will take notice and want to play here.

 

This league is overrun with athletic freaks at the skilled positions, give them the best line to run behind and there are many RB's who are instant pro bowlers. Same goes for QB's, lots of kids out there that if you give them time to throw they will surgically remove your heart with military precision.

 

Build a D line that caves in the opposition and suddenly your corners, LB's and safeties look like world beaters!

 

The game is won in the trenches! Joeckel was a great pick last year. I like Bridgewater but there are several versions of him, not many Clowneys out there.

 

O line and D line emphasis, plug in your BAP, most needed, free agent philosophy however you want. Dominate the line of scrimmage and you control the game.

Finally!!! Someone that knows how to build a team... Give this guy a job.

Quote:I heard he was projected as a second round pick by everyone except Gene Smith.

 

So you know we did need to fix the defensive line that year but needed a much better lineman. That is my whole point here. You know what you need; now get the best guy at that job.

 

I am just saying Alualu was a terrible pick.  We could have had JPP.  I would have loved JPP.  But there were also other players on the board that Gene Smith missed.  Earl Thomas being one of them.  Which was also a major need on this team.