Quote:"Did I get that right?"
Are you JW? ... Think about that for a moment.
Sheesh. :no: You need more practice, a lot more. :yes: Not everything is meant to be ... right.
Quote:Товарищ, у нас есть водка Translated : Comrade, we have vodka!
You buying?
Wait, let me rephrase that.
Are you buying us the Vodka? This is going to get old quite quickly. Stupid DF. :yes:
Quote:Oh, fun times with unsubstantiated claims. The whole collection of music. movies etc. might have an influence I admit, but I think that it's more likely the fact they live in a craphole and they see no other way of making money other than turning to a life of crime from an early age. And once you're in that circuit it becomes the only thing you know how to do and in the end there are essentially only two ways out; get killed or thrown in prison.
You've seen to many tupac movies, one way out prison or death. And even in the worse ghettos there's ways to make honest money, you don't make as much and it takes twice as long but a life of crime is far from the only way, it might be the only way taught but that goes back to a late of parenting.
Quote:All snarky comments aside, I genuinely enjoyed staying in the US for about a week. But even with that limited experience I'm still sure I wouldn't want to live there. I prefer Europe in practically every way (except gas prices) and it's not just the cheap health care, higher public safety or (mostly) competent public transport.
I'd like to visit Europe one day, I don't pretend to know a whole lot about European ways and I'd like to broaden my experiences. That said it's damn near impossible with a family of 6 but maybe one day after I've made my millions!
Quote:I'm not sure how to discuss this. Inaccurate stamped out sheet metal? We aren't discussing the same weapons from way back when the AK was the more reliable choice, and that has nothing to do with shooting range fun.
You can take waayyyy less accurate all day long, as long as you are on the other team. 
I know the AK still lives on it's "very" 60ish year old reputation as some superiorly reliable weapon, but its design is just that ... Old, and cheaply produced. There are countries that you can buy an AK for under $50.00 ... and maybe in some, you could get 2.
Remember the "civilian" version of the M-16 the AR-15 is very different, I'd take the Military version of the M-16 Fully Auto piston Loaded any day of the week, however the "civilian" AK is just as powerful and durable as any military used version in the world.
Plus the ammo SOOOOOO much cheaper!
Quote:Right, and I said it wasn't a Stand Your Ground case. But the description of what entails "stand your ground" is part of how Florida defines self defense, and that was included in the instructions.
Wrong again. Self defense does not equal stand your ground.
Stand your ground will NEVER be a part of jury instructions. Stand your ground is a pretrial motion which is either successful or not. If it is successful, there is no trial, and therefore no jury instructions, period.
So again, this is so clear, I have no idea how anyone can't understand it. If you are attempting to play on a nuance of the phrase, fine. I'll play along and give you your cookie. However, if you read the context of the debate, it is night and day clear. Zimmerman was NOT a stand your ground case. You all can try to make it that, but you can't change facts.
Quote:Wrong again. Self defense does not equal stand your ground.
Stand your ground will NEVER be a part of jury instructions. Stand your ground is a pretrial motion which is either successful or not. If it is successful, there is no trial, and therefore no jury instructions, period.
So again, this is so clear, I have no idea how anyone can't understand it. If you are attempting to play on a nuance of the phrase, fine. I'll play along and give you your cookie. However, if you read the context of the debate, it is night and day clear. Zimmerman was NOT a stand your ground case. You all can try to make it that, but you can't change facts.
Right, except for the entire paragraph not only using the exact words but also providing an almost dictionary definition of stand your ground and how it relates to the case.
Quote:Right, except for the entire paragraph not only using the exact words but also providing an almost dictionary definition of stand your ground and how it relates to the case.
A description doesn't make a law. Not the same thing. There is no way to make Zimmerman a stand your ground case.
Do you still think it was? Are you really that naive of the facts?
For home protection, I have a Mossberg 500 auto loader 12 guage with the 10 round clip. I use 0-0 buck too, that's like getting hit 9X with a 32 cal slug.
Also for hunting (And Protection) I have and old M-1 Garand, An M-14 (slightly larger bore then the M-1, both good deer rifles) and a Chinese SKS (Same Cal as the M-1)
You get hit with any one of my weapons you're going down. Break in, you're dead I don't care if you're armed or not (Castle doctrine)
Quote:A description doesn't make a law. Not the same thing. There is no way to make Zimmerman a stand your ground case.
You can if you propose that Martin was standing his ground.
Quote:A description doesn't make a law. Not the same thing. There is no way to make Zimmerman a stand your ground case.
Do you still think it was? Are you really that naive of the facts?
Just because the defense does not seek a stand your ground case does not mean the law doesn't apply. That's why the law is named specifically in the jury instructions
Quote:Just because the defense does not seek a stand your ground case does not mean the law doesn't apply. That's why the law is named specifically in the jury instructions
The law is not named. The phrase is written.
Where are the instructions of how the law is applied? Where does it explain the law to the jururs? All of the other laws were explained in great detail. Why the ommission?
We can play this game all night long, but the fact of the matter is simple. Zimmerman was not a stand your ground case, period.
Quote:For home protection, I have a Mossberg 500 auto loader 12 guage with the 10 round clip. I use 0-0 buck too, that's like getting hit 9X with a 32 cal slug.
Also for hunting (And Protection) I have and old M-1 Garand, An M-14 (slightly larger bore then the M-1, both good deer rifles) and a Chinese SKS (Same Cal as the M-1)
You get hit with any one of my weapons you're going down. Break in, you're dead I don't care if you're armed or not (Castle doctrine)
Note to self ... Stick him in the back with a $2.00 Wal-Mart knife ... steal the guns, and sale them for Crack money.
Another old geezer over confident with big mean words about guns. :woot:
Quote:For home protection, I have a Mossberg 500 auto loader 12 guage with the 10 round clip. I use 0-0 buck too, that's like getting hit 9X with a 32 cal slug.
Also for hunting (And Protection) I have and old M-1 Garand, An M-14 (slightly larger bore then the M-1, both good deer rifles) and a Chinese SKS (Same Cal as the M-1)
You get hit with any one of my weapons you're going down. Break in, you're dead I don't care if you're armed or not (Castle doctrine)
I go small with my carry weapons. I have a S&W M&P .40 shield which is my primary carry sidearm. I sometimes carry a second. It's a Ruger LCP .380 with laser sights. It fits on my ankle nicely and I don't even notice it. It is almost a little small for the caliber and I don't enjoy the control as much so I would never make that a primary carry sidearm.
As for what I have at home for protection, I'm not going there. Let's just say that someone wouldn't want to break in and find out.
Quote:Wrong again. Self defense does not equal stand your ground.
Stand your ground will NEVER be a part of jury instructions. Stand your ground is a pretrial motion which is either successful or not. If it is successful, there is no trial, and therefore no jury instructions, period.
So again, this is so clear, I have no idea how anyone can't understand it. If you are attempting to play on a nuance of the phrase, fine. I'll play along and give you your cookie. However, if you read the context of the debate, it is night and day clear. Zimmerman was NOT a stand your ground case. You all can try to make it that, but you can't change facts.
Enough with the condescension, I never use that on you. If you want to play the game of adding insult to argument, I can play that way.
There is no stand your ground statute. It is one section of a list of items that define justifiable homicide. When the judge instructed the jury to consider self-defense, she included an explanation of standing one's ground as it is used to define self defense. It was very clear in her instructions. That it was not used by the defense to have the case dismissed, which would make it a Stand Your Ground case. They didn't, so it was not. But it was in the instructions.
Quote:Remember the "civilian" version of the M-16 the AR-15 is very different, I'd take the Military version of the M-16 Fully Auto piston Loaded any day of the week, however the "civilian" AK is just as powerful and durable as any military used version in the world.
Plus the ammo SOOOOOO much cheaper!
One of the biggest issues with the AK is the exact reason so many are "out there", they are cheap. Next, the stampings make for such a wide variable of accuracy. If you got used to 1 by aiming off center to the left to hit a target, the next one you pick up you will need to aim to the right. Then when you drop it, you will find an entirely different point of aim. They wiggled, and every single one of them are different. It is nearly a constant resighting if it is heavily used. They will take a beating, and fire nearly every time, but you don't want to try to pick off the guy holding a gun to your wifes head with an AK (unless you don't love her).
Yes, the ammo is way cheaper, so is the quality.
Quote:Enough with the condescension, I never use that on you. If you want to play the game of adding insult to argument, I can play that way.
There is no stand your ground statute. It is one section of a list of items that define justifiable homicide. When the judge instructed the jury to consider self-defense, she included an explanation of standing one's ground as it is used to define self defense. It was very clear in her instructions. That it was not used by the defense to have the case dismissed, which would make it a Stand Your Ground case. They didn't, so it was not. But it was in the instructions.
My apologies. Condescension wasn't my intention. I am a reasonable guy, and so I will seek to find some common ground here.
As to your claim of the existence of a stand your ground statute, what was the Florida legislature debating today? It is real, and it does exist. I'll be honest here. I think we both have an understanding of what we're talking about. I think I'm taking the procedural side of the argument, and you're taking the fundamental side. That's okay. We're still friends.
I think we're arguing conceptual versus procedural here.
Legally, I'm right. Conceptually, you guys are probably right. Can we agree on that much?
Quote:I go small with my carry weapons. I have a S&W M&P .40 shield which is my primary carry sidearm. I sometimes carry a second. It's a Ruger LCP .380 with laser sights. It fits on my ankle nicely and I don't even notice it. It is almost a little small for the caliber and I don't enjoy the control as much so I would never make that a primary carry sidearm.
As for what I have at home for protection, I'm not going there. Let's just say that someone wouldn't want to break in and find out.
More Crack money ... I think I will run this one over with my 73 Gremlin ... lost a hubcap that way once.
Quote:Not at all, anyone that has grown up in the "gun culture" understands what they are for. It's a big reason why we own them.
Just like when I was growing up I teach my kids about guns from an early age, you have to with kids in the house. I let them hold the weapon (unloaded and cleared of course) let them feel the weight so they know the difference between a real gun and a toy gun. I explain to them one on one what they are used for, how they are tools and like any tool you use it wrong someone can get hurt or even die.
It's the kids not raised by their parents around guns but find them on the streets and play GTA all day that get hurt or use them for crime.
I saw it said once, "Kids that Hunt, Trap and Fish don't Bang, Steal and Rape"
Oh, come on. GTA V sold 11 million copies in the first 24 hours. 29 million copies were sold in the first six weeks. It was the biggest entertainment launch ever. How many of them do you think went out and got a gun and used it for crime? It's hilarious that someone is arguing in favor of guns but condemning video games as something that makes people commit crimes.
Talk about someone buying into the media perception of something "hook, line, and sinker."
Quote:I'm not saying the kid is violent because of video games specifically. I'm referring to the gang culture that runs the inner cities, it's everywhere from the music to the movies to the games and if you don't believe all of that influences them I don't know what to say.
These same kids over loaded with the gang culture have no clue how to handle a fire arm or respect what its used for. They get mad or want something they can't afford and that's probably a good 75% of your gun crime right there.
Then leave the game out of it. Guns do far more damage to people than video games ever have or ever will. If you intend to refer to the gang culture, refer to the gang culture not the fastest selling entertainment product in the history of entertainment.
Best thing about the AK...You can buy kits and have "build parties" where you build the receiver out of metal stock. It's by far the best gun to easily build.
The AR, is great to shoot and easy to build. Parts are coming down and I've got enough bits to make a few.
If anyone ever wants to learn to shoot or needs help picking out a weapon, PM me.
As far as the classes being voluntary...duh so is firearm ownership.
Quote:Well, for starters it should be "Did I get that right?".
Sammy was being colloquial and was correct, in that context.
Quote: My apologies. Condescension wasn't my intention. I am a reasonable guy, and so I will seek to find some common ground here.
As to your claim of the existence of a stand your ground statute, what was the Florida legislature debating today? It is real, and it does exist. I'll be honest here. I think we both have an understanding of what we're talking about. I think I'm taking the procedural side of the argument, and you're taking the fundamental side. That's okay. We're still friends.
I think we're arguing conceptual versus procedural here.
Legally, I'm right. Conceptually, you guys are probably right. Can we agree on that much?
Here is the statute. Stand your ground is addressed in section 3. As you can see, any instructions to the jury that include self-defense or justifiable homicide would have to include a definition of stand your ground.
I'm not arguing in support of DF. He was wrong to say the Zimmerman case was a stand your ground case, but it is also wrong to say that an explanation of stand your ground was not in the instructions to the jury.