First, really glad that this board got saved. Massive props to those responsible.
I'm optimistic about 2017. Think we could be a respectable NFL for first time in a while.
BUT, I look at this o line amd scratch my head. It seems like we should have signed or drafted a quality center and guard in addition to what we've done. We are going power run game and I'm skeptical. We have Linder as a good interior o lineman. Beyond that? Not great.
Am I being too negative?
Earl Watford comes close. He started 10 games last year for the Cards and signed a 2-year, $5 mil contract.
PFF apparently hates Watford:
"PFF rating: 33.9, 77th of 80
Watford was asked to play all over the Arizona offensive line, which probably contributed to his poor play, but his ratings have never been very strong, topping out at a 57.4 two years ago.
To his credit, the Cardinals’ linemen face a tough task with a deep-drop offense and more empty sets than any other team, according to ESPN. Still, the 26-year-old linemen performed well below replacement level under those circumstances."
Now, who knows about that. But it seems like the Jagcentric media wasn't that jazzed about him when the signing happened. I'm not dogging the guy, but I was talking about a guy a step up from him.
I'll say it again, but Tretter should have been a no brainer FA addition if they were seriously considering moving Linder off the position (or even if they weren't). Top ~5-10 C, young, proven, and got a shockingly reasonable deal.
As for Watford...yikes...just yikes. Universally graded among the very worst lineman in the league every year he has been in the league. I honestly have no clue what the team saw there. If it's truly open competition for LG (which it might not be considering how much more money they gave Watford) I can't see Omameh not wiping the floor with him.
(06-11-2017, 10:34 PM)TealHammer Wrote: [ -> ]To his credit, the Cardinals’ linemen face a tough task with a deep-drop offense and more empty sets than any other team, according to ESPN.
Interesting. Perhaps this was his issue but Coughlin saw him as a better fit for the power scheme he has in mind.
Don't forget we tried to throw the farm at Kevin Zeitler but the brownies had more jack to offer. That would've solidified the oline in a big way, but I don't think its worth paying a guard that much money tbh. That signing would've cost us a player or two down the line I feel like, while now I think we can pretty much re-sign whoever we're gonna want to.
To answer your question, yes, we should've signed some other guys on the interior oline, but they were focused on some big name defensive guys that they had to fight off plenty of teams to get, so I understand the lack of being able to fix everything. It will be a big priority in the next offseason.
As mentioned. Watford was signed to a decent contract. He'll more than likely push or challenge Cann for his job. I have a lot of confidence in Omameh personally. I liked what I saw out of him here and there last year and it wouldn't surprise me if he's in the starting line-up by the season opener.
Also, keep in mind that we'll have a battle between Albert and Robinson this summer. And there's a good chance one of them ends up either moving to right tackle and bumps Parnell down to G or one of them takes up the G position as well. I think we'll be fine.
We're also using the full back again this year which gives our running game a lot more wiggle room and it seems like with the trading of Thomas to Miami for Albert that they're also moving away from the tight end position being involved heavily in the passing game.
So between all of that mentioned above. I am not too, too worried about it right now. Can't really gauge it though until pre-season starts and the rounds are live. If it's one thing you can't hide it's your effectiveness in the trenches. Your line either moves them backwards or they get bulled backwards themselves.
No, they should've sold out on Alex Mack the year before. That is the one that hurts the most after how good the Atl's game was last year. Caldwell missed by hesitating there.
(06-11-2017, 09:44 PM)TealHammer Wrote: [ -> ]First, really glad that this board got saved. Massive props to those responsible.
I'm optimistic about 2017. Think we could be a respectable NFL for first time in a while.
BUT, I look at this o line amd scratch my head. It seems like we should have signed or drafted a quality center and guard in addition to what we've done. We are going power run game and I'm skeptical. We have Linder as a good interior o lineman. Beyond that? Not great.
Am I being too negative?
Relax. Cam Robinson will be a decent guard this year to go with Linder and Cann/Omaha (don't want to learn how to spell his name) on the interior.
I was fairly certain they'd take a guard in round 2, 3 or 4 of the draft and they didn't. Still - the additions of Albert and Robinson are not inconsequential to the interior as Robinson very well may play inside his rookie year if he looks good in preseason action there. (I'm convinced he'll get looks at guard regardless of Marrone's frequently misconstrued comments prior to rookie camp)
The Shatley at center narrative is getting a lot of steam behind it now that multiple reporters/observers (who aren't really supposed to report on practices) are heavily implying that Shatley is getting most of the work with the ones at Center. It's still very early - but they may be the scenario the staff is aiming for. Linder at RG and Shatley in the middle.
If Shatley indeed lands the Center start and Albert is good to go at LT -- then you've essentially got Robinson, Cann, Omameh, Reed, and Watford scrapping it out for the LG spot. (Unless they really push Robinson to compete for the RT spot)
So - if it turns out that the winner of the LG battle isn't very good - then yes, the Jags should have done more for the interior line. If the winner of the battle plays well, then our worrying is all for naught.
I'm simply going to repeat for the record that the idea of Shatley at Center makes me nervous as hell.
Yes, Upgrades should have been made at least attempted to be made. The line will fail to give Blake any time just like the last 2 years. Sad face
(06-12-2017, 01:03 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]If Shatley indeed lands the Center start and Albert is good to go at LT -- then you've essentially got Robinson, Cann, Omameh, Reed, and Watford scrapping it out for the LG spot. (Unless they really push Robinson to compete for the RT spot)
So - if it turns out that the winner of the LG battle isn't very good - then yes, the Jags should have done more for the interior line. If the winner of the battle plays well, then our worrying is all for naught.
The LG battle among Robinson, Cann, and even Omameh (with an emphasis on meh) sounds like a solid competition. The one to emerge will be a competent run blocker, at the very least. I believe Robinson will start at LT, too, but I'm also certain there'll be some decent guards in next year's draft or free agency.
(06-12-2017, 01:53 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm simply going to repeat for the record that the idea of Shatley at Center makes me nervous as hell.
I think he's a scrapper. Bowanko would make me more nervous.
(06-12-2017, 03:00 PM)Browntrouser Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, Upgrades should have been made at least attempted to be made. The line will fail to give Blake any time just like the last 2 years. Sad face
Attempts were made. We were hard after Zeitler, and the other available starting interior linemen were pretty much picked up while we squared off against the Browns for his services. The browns just had more money to offer.
The line is not ideal, but if everyone stays healthy, it can be serviceable this year. I hope Omama'mia and Robinson start at guard, Linder at C, Albert and Parnell at the tackle spots. Could be ok I suppose.
If anything, maybe Feeney over Smoot. I kinda like guys like Omamamay and Shatley. Bowanko. Chris Reed. I know it seems like make shift depth but when u consider Gennesy and Watford, somewherr in there I would think lies the answer. 5 guys that may start across the line are Albert, Cann, Linder, Parnell and Robinson. We should be ok. Wish we woulda brought in QB comp though. Cap...
I don't know who they could have acquired, but my answer is anytime you can improve the roster without breaking the bank you should do so
(06-12-2017, 01:53 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm simply going to repeat for the record that the idea of Shatley at Center makes me nervous as hell.
Same here!
I think it's extremely unfair to bash Caldwell on his aggressiveness. Honestly, he has been very dedicated in his pursuit of talent - I disagree with many of his choices, however, we can't knock him for being shy with the checkbook.
Dave Caldwell went all in on Zeitler and I'm glad the Browns gave him just enough more than the Jags. I think Dave would have had to be somewhere near 13-14M a season for Zeitler
I thought it was interesting how it played out. DC didn't get Zeitler ($8.4M in 2017) but he did trade a draft pick fro Branden Albert ($8.9M in 2017) who will play Guard or Tackle. When healthy, Albert was a premier offensive lineman inside or out. If Albert ends up at Guard and does really well - then I think Dave did extremely well. Albert is the wildcard, I sense the disappointed with him not showing up for optional workouts and it's not a mindset you like to hear. You'd hope the culture shift also shifts Albert's mindset and he becomes the team player Coughlin builds his teams with.
Better yet, Caldwell found more relief in the draft. I actually love Cam Robinson as a Guard prospect better than a tackle. I really can't complain about how the O-Line was put together. I think this is one of the better groupings we have seen in recent years.
Knowing this team is always willing to sign guys that are an upgrade at any position they feel needs it, isn't it possible that the only reason a quality interior lineman wasn't signed is because they didn't see anyone out there that they felt fit the bill? That's not to say they won't pursue one eventually. Guys will be released over the next few months as teams pare their rosters. I don't think this team is done yet acquiring new talent.