Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(06-22-2017, 08:44 AM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2017, 11:47 PM)mvannostran Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe they still see the talent in Bortles to be successful?

I agree but you can't tell that to folks who wants to see blake gone because they continue to whine and complain about it as if he's hasn't done a thing in this league. Tom and Dave want blake to be the qb so if anyone don't like the way they came to that conclusion or the decision itself then my advice to them is to get over it and allow the process to play out. I'm truly not trying to be insensitive with my post because i truly understand folks frustration with this team but we have less patients with blake than we had blaine gabbert which is mind blowing to me. I guess the fan base as a whole is suffering from losing seasons syndrome and wants to exterminate anyone that's associate with it.

Relax big man. It's the slow season. I just wanted to find a topic worthy of discussion. I am not a Blake hater in any form or fashion. I hope he does great!

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I think everyone is missing the point. In the 23 years of this team's existence, how many QBs have been drafted? I'm not saying find a replacement. Did New England draft Brady in the 6th round to be a starter? I don't think so. I just think they should throw a couple more picks at QBs here and there and see if they get a flash in the pan. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. This team has been in a position to use a pick on a QB like that many times and hasn't. Why is what I'm asking.

It doesn't make sense why they would not bring in some draft pick just to see if you can hit on a prospect they like.

They didn't value a QB high enough to draft him. Not rocket science.

(06-22-2017, 02:04 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't make sense why they would not bring in some draft pick just to see if you can hit on a prospect they like.

The odds of that happening in this particular draft were about the same as Rosie O'Donnell having an affair with Donald Trump.

BTW, they drafted a prospect last year.

(06-22-2017, 02:04 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't make sense why they would not bring in some draft pick just to see if you can hit on a prospect they like.

If you throw draft picks at quarterbacks, year after year, hoping you'll hit on one, you will waste a lot of draft picks, and if you do finally hit on one, he won't have a team around him because of all the draft picks you wasted trying to hit on a quarterback.

For example, in the 2014 draft, when the Jags got to the 5th round, they could have tried to hit on one of these quarterbacks: Aaron Murray, AJ McCarron, Zach Mettenberger, David Fales, Keith Wenning, Tajh Boyd, or Garrett Gilbert. Those were the QBs that were still available in the 5th round. Why not take a flyer on one of those guys? Because they decided to take Telvin Smith.

You can throw picks at QBs all day and never hit on one, and eventually, you have a weak roster, because you threw away pick after pick on bad quarterbacks.

(06-21-2017, 04:37 PM)Dakota Wrote: [ -> ]What are they seeing that we don't...

That would be the tape of Blake's 2015 season. ...especially down the strech in clutch situations, dude was on fire.

(06-22-2017, 04:50 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-21-2017, 04:37 PM)Dakota Wrote: [ -> ]What are they seeing that we don't...

That would be the tape of Blake's 2015 season. ...especially down the strech in clutch situations, dude was on fire.

And they had Brunell, but drafted Rob Johnson. He turned into Fred Taylor. It can go both ways.

Just for the sake or argument, of course. What else is there to do during the dead season.

(06-22-2017, 05:32 PM)Dakota Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-22-2017, 04:50 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
That would be the tape of Blake's 2015 season. ...especially down the strech in clutch situations, dude was on fire.

And they had Brunell, but drafted Rob Johnson. He turned into Fred Taylor. It can go both ways.

Just for the sake or argument, of course. What else is there to do during the dead season.

That roster didnt have a dev guy when they took Johnson, they had either Brunell or Beerline to backup for one season and no one else. They needed a rookie on that team, the current one already has all 3 qbs needed for next year.

The Carr contract extension makes the Bortles 5th year option more palatable. $18+ mil a year isn't (or won't be soon) top 15 QB money. Carr isn't elite (and I don't believe he ever will be), but the extension he received is for the expectation that he will become elite. That contract, among other things, should be highly motivating for Bortles this season. We should have a pretty good idea what direction we're going with him by mid season.

I think Coughwell might have considered taking a QB if the value met our pick as in one of the guys that went in the first round were to have slipped to the second, but as talented as we as fans believe this roster might be they weren't willing to waste a pick reaching for a guy they didn't believe in later in the draft when those picks would be more effectively spent elsewhere for depth/special teams.

It's been frustrating as a fan. I know exactly where you're coming from Dakota. What really jumps out at you too is the fact that a team like New England. Even with Brady front and center. They've still invested quality selections at the QB position.

Mallet was a 3RD round selection in 2011.
Garoppolo was a 2ND round selection in 2014.

Shanahan did the same thing in 2012. They jumped up for RGIII and still went with Cousins in RD4 as an insurance policy. Fast forward to 2017 and you've got one guy going down the path as a career back up and another guy on the verge of being paid a big fat contract for actually, you know, winning games.

You should see the same philosophy being applied at the QB position. This team has had plenty of cap space to add legitimate competition behind Bortles over the past three years between free agency and the draft. They've opted not to address it. It's baffling. And if he fails this year. Caldwell's head needs to roll.

At first I was like we will ride or die with Bortles in 17. Than I thought if Blake was to start the season really bad. We could possibly trade for a qb. But nothing wrong with giving Bortles the benefit of the doubt. He proved the last few games. That he can be much better.

So right now. I will give Blake a record of 1-1 under Marrone. And hope he improves this year.

(06-23-2017, 06:50 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's been frustrating as a fan. I know exactly where you're coming from Dakota. What really jumps out at you too is the fact that a team like New England. Even with Brady front and center. They've still invested quality selections at the QB position.

Mallet was a 3RD round selection in 2011.
Garoppolo was a 2ND round selection in 2014.

Shanahan did the same thing in 2012. They jumped up for RGIII and still went with Cousins in RD4 as an insurance policy. Fast forward to 2017 and you've got one guy going down the path as a career back up and another guy on the verge of being paid a big fat contract for actually, you know, winning games.

You should see the same philosophy being applied at the QB position. This team has had plenty of cap space to add legitimate competition behind Bortles over the past three years between free agency and the draft. They've opted not to address it. It's baffling. And if he fails this year. Caldwell's head needs to roll.

Who would all that cap space buy?

(06-23-2017, 06:50 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's been frustrating as a fan. I know exactly where you're coming from Dakota. What really jumps out at you too is the fact that a team like New England. Even with Brady front and center. They've still invested quality selections at the QB position.

Mallet was a 3RD round selection in 2011.
Garoppolo was a 2ND round selection in 2014.

Shanahan did the same thing in 2012. They jumped up for RGIII and still went with Cousins in RD4 as an insurance policy. Fast forward to 2017 and you've got one guy going down the path as a career back up and another guy on the verge of being paid a big fat contract for actually, you know, winning games.

You should see the same philosophy being applied at the QB position. This team has had plenty of cap space to add legitimate competition behind Bortles over the past three years between free agency and the draft. They've opted not to address it. It's baffling. And if he fails this year. Caldwell's head needs to roll.

The Pats might have taken QBs, but what does that prove? The only thing it shows to me is that they're good at working the system. They draft a back up QB and let him "develop" behind Brady in that system. Everybody just assumes that said QB is going to be great because he came from that system, even though they've literally never touched the field during their time there. Cassel's situation was a little different because of the freak Brady knee injury.

The Pats then ship off said QB for a draft pick in return. Whether it was for a profit (see Matt Cassel), or simply just to get something back for a wasted pick (see Mallet). None of those QBs ever turn out to be any good. Mallet is awful and while Garoppolo could be good, he's nothing more than a big question mark at this point in time.

Shanahan played it safe by double dipping in that draft. He got lucky and hit on Cousins. That kind of situation happening is not the norm and you seen what kind of issues it caused during the entire time both QBs were there. It was a constant back and forth of, this guy should play, no this guy etc.

I believe they have all intentions on pushing Bortles, but with who? You can say that they should of brought somebody in, but there literally wasn't anybody worth a lick out there. The QB class was very weak and so was the FA class. 

Did you want to bring in Cutler? Somebody who makes all kinds of poor decisions with the football. Or did you want to trade for an old and broken down Tony Romo?

The ship floats, or sinks with Bortles this season and it was pretty obvious that it would. Best case, we win with him (which is what everybody should want). Worst case, we suck again and we're drafting high in what will be a far greater QB class than this past year's.

(06-23-2017, 11:14 AM)Teal Time Radio Wrote: [ -> ]At first I was like we will ride or die with Bortles in 17.  Than I thought if Blake was to start the season really bad.  We could possibly trade for a qb.  But nothing wrong with giving Bortles the benefit of the doubt.   He proved the last few games.   That he can be much better.  

So right now.  I will give Blake a record of 1-1 under Marrone.  And hope he improves this year.

We aren't trading for a QB.  If Blake falters this year, Marrone probably won't hesitate to pull him, and our first pick next year is a QB.

(06-25-2017, 11:33 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2017, 11:14 AM)Teal Time Radio Wrote: [ -> ]At first I was like we will ride or die with Bortles in 17.  Than I thought if Blake was to start the season really bad.  We could possibly trade for a qb.  But nothing wrong with giving Bortles the benefit of the doubt.   He proved the last few games.   That he can be much better.  

So right now.  I will give Blake a record of 1-1 under Marrone.  And hope he improves this year.

We aren't trading for a QB.  If Blake falters this year, Marrone probably won't hesitate to pull him, and our first pick next year is a QB.

I really don't understand the point of pulling him. Is Henne better at his best than Bortles is at his worst? No. Is Branden Albert better than Henne? Apparently not since Dave thought it was so important to have Henne on the roster.

So do you mean Marrone will pull Bortles so that the team can go full on tank mode for the draft? I somehow doubt we'll see that, so I can't see Bortles getting pulled.

He'll be the starter as long as he's healthy, and anyone talking about pulling him is either talking about tanking, or doesn't understand how bad Henne and (by proxy, apparently) Albert are.

(06-25-2017, 11:33 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-23-2017, 11:14 AM)Teal Time Radio Wrote: [ -> ]At first I was like we will ride or die with Bortles in 17.  Than I thought if Blake was to start the season really bad.  We could possibly trade for a qb.  But nothing wrong with giving Bortles the benefit of the doubt.   He proved the last few games.   That he can be much better.  

So right now.  I will give Blake a record of 1-1 under Marrone.  And hope he improves this year.

We aren't trading for a QB.  If Blake falters this year, Marrone probably won't hesitate to pull him, and our first pick next year is a QB.

No way, Bortles is the guy this year for better or worse.  There's no one on the roster that's better.

(06-25-2017, 12:30 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-25-2017, 11:33 AM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]We aren't trading for a QB.  If Blake falters this year, Marrone probably won't hesitate to pull him, and our first pick next year is a QB.

I really don't understand the point of pulling him. Is Henne better at his best than Bortles is at his worst? No. Is Branden Albert better than Henne? Apparently not since Dave thought it was so important to have Henne on the roster.

So do you mean Marrone will pull Bortles so that the team can go full on tank mode for the draft? I somehow doubt we'll see that, so I can't see Bortles getting pulled.

He'll be the starter as long as he's healthy, and anyone talking about pulling him is either talking about tanking, or doesn't understand how bad Henne and (by proxy, apparently) Albert are.

This exactly ^

There's really only two situations where Bortles isn't going to be the QB all year..

First is if he gets hurt and obviously can't play. 

The second is if he just completely loses his mind and starts turning the football over at an incredible rate. If he has a stretch of games where he literally turns the ball over 5-6 times a game.

Other than those two outcomes, I don't think there's any possible way that Bortles isn't the QB for every game this season.

They have to try. That's the point. I am saying they can't use the lack of space as an excuse. They could have tried something, anything to make the position better and competitive. They simply haven't.

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(06-23-2017, 06:50 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's been frustrating as a fan. I know exactly where you're coming from Dakota. What really jumps out at you too is the fact that a team like New England. Even with Brady front and center. They've still invested quality selections at the QB position.

Mallet was a 3RD round selection in 2011.
Garoppolo was a 2ND round selection in 2014.

Shanahan did the same thing in 2012. They jumped up for RGIII and still went with Cousins in RD4 as an insurance policy. Fast forward to 2017 and you've got one guy going down the path as a career back up and another guy on the verge of being paid a big fat contract for actually, you know, winning games.

You should see the same philosophy being applied at the QB position. This team has had plenty of cap space to add legitimate competition behind Bortles over the past three years between free agency and the draft. They've opted not to address it. It's baffling. And if he fails this year. Caldwell's head needs to roll.

The Pats might have taken QBs, but what does that prove? The only thing it shows to me is that they're good at working the system. They draft a back up QB and let him "develop" behind Brady in that system. Everybody just assumes that said QB is going to be great because he came from that system, even though they've literally never touched the field during their time there. Cassel's situation was a little different because of the freak Brady knee injury.

The Pats then ship off said QB for a draft pick in return. Whether it was for a profit (see Matt Cassel), or simply just to get something back for a wasted pick (see Mallet). None of those QBs ever turn out to be any good. Mallet is awful and while Garoppolo could be good, he's nothing more than a big question mark at this point in time.

Shanahan played it safe by double dipping in that draft. He got lucky and hit on Cousins. That kind of situation happening is not the norm and you seen what kind of issues it caused during the entire time both QBs were there. It was a constant back and forth of, this guy should play, no this guy etc.

I believe they have all intentions on pushing Bortles, but with who? You can say that they should of brought somebody in, but there literally wasn't anybody worth a lick out there. The QB class was very weak and so was the FA class. 

Did you want to bring in Cutler? Somebody who makes all kinds of poor decisions with the football. Or did you want to trade for an old and broken down Tony Romo?

The ship floats, or sinks with Bortles this season and it was pretty obvious that it would. Best case, we win with him (which is what everybody should want). Worst case, we suck again and we're drafting high in what will be a far greater QB class than this past year's.
[/quote]
Again. They have to try something, anything. And they didn't. Whether it was through the draft or free agency. Teams improved after us that were in the same boat as us.


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(06-25-2017, 07:09 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]They have to try. That's the point. I am saying they can't use the lack of space as an excuse. They could have tried something, anything to make the position better and competitive. They simply haven't.

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(06-23-2017, 06:50 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's been frustrating as a fan. I know exactly where you're coming from Dakota. What really jumps out at you too is the fact that a team like New England. Even with Brady front and center. They've still invested quality selections at the QB position.

Mallet was a 3RD round selection in 2011.
Garoppolo was a 2ND round selection in 2014.

Shanahan did the same thing in 2012. They jumped up for RGIII and still went with Cousins in RD4 as an insurance policy. Fast forward to 2017 and you've got one guy going down the path as a career back up and another guy on the verge of being paid a big fat contract for actually, you know, winning games.

You should see the same philosophy being applied at the QB position. This team has had plenty of cap space to add legitimate competition behind Bortles over the past three years between free agency and the draft. They've opted not to address it. It's baffling. And if he fails this year. Caldwell's head needs to roll.

The Pats might have taken QBs, but what does that prove? The only thing it shows to me is that they're good at working the system. They draft a back up QB and let him "develop" behind Brady in that system. Everybody just assumes that said QB is going to be great because he came from that system, even though they've literally never touched the field during their time there. Cassel's situation was a little different because of the freak Brady knee injury.

The Pats then ship off said QB for a draft pick in return. Whether it was for a profit (see Matt Cassel), or simply just to get something back for a wasted pick (see Mallet). None of those QBs ever turn out to be any good. Mallet is awful and while Garoppolo could be good, he's nothing more than a big question mark at this point in time.

Shanahan played it safe by double dipping in that draft. He got lucky and hit on Cousins. That kind of situation happening is not the norm and you seen what kind of issues it caused during the entire time both QBs were there. It was a constant back and forth of, this guy should play, no this guy etc.

I believe they have all intentions on pushing Bortles, but with who? You can say that they should of brought somebody in, but there literally wasn't anybody worth a lick out there. The QB class was very weak and so was the FA class. 

Did you want to bring in Cutler? Somebody who makes all kinds of poor decisions with the football. Or did you want to trade for an old and broken down Tony Romo?

The ship floats, or sinks with Bortles this season and it was pretty obvious that it would. Best case, we win with him (which is what everybody should want). Worst case, we suck again and we're drafting high in what will be a far greater QB class than this past year's.

Again. They have to try something, anything. And they didn't. Whether it was through the draft or free agency. Teams improved after us that were in the same boat as us.


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[/quote]

Well they drafted Bortles in 2014.

In 2015 he was going into his 2nd year and there wasn't really a need to draft a QB high, or go after a high profile FA when Bortles was only going into his 2nd year. That would have been an awful situation and do nothing but cause distractions. I could just see the headlines.. "Wow the Jags drafted X QB, or signed X QB. They obviously must not have a lot of faith in Bortles, who's only going into his 2nd season."

Going into his 3rd year in 2016, he was coming off of what looked like a very promising year. All the talk was about us finally having our Franchise QB and it looked like we did. The QB position looked to be set for the foreseeable future. Would have been stupid to go after a QB after how promising Bortles looked in 2015.

This off season is the season they could have really went after another QB. The problem is, you don't just go after somebody because you think you need to. There was literally nothing out there that would be an upgrade from Bortles. Nobody wants Henne on the field, but Henne is better than anybody who was in this past draft and anybody who was a FA. Bortles is obviously better than Henne.

It's easy to say that they have to try anything, just do something. That's far easier said then done though. Are you talking about teams being in the same situation as us this off season and improving? If so, every team improves on paper, in the off season. It doesn't really mean anything at this point in time. We wont know which teams improved and which teams got worse until the bullets really start flying.

(06-25-2017, 09:10 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Well they drafted Bortles in 2014.

In 2015 he was going into his 2nd year and there wasn't really a need to draft a QB high, or go after a high profile FA when Bortles was only going into his 2nd year. That would have been an awful situation and do nothing but cause distractions. I could just see the headlines.. "Wow the Jags drafted X QB, or signed X QB. They obviously must not have a lot of faith in Bortles, who's only going into his 2nd season."

Going into his 3rd year in 2016, he was coming off of what looked like a very promising year. All the talk was about us finally having our Franchise QB and it looked like we did. The QB position looked to be set for the foreseeable future. Would have been stupid to go after a QB after how promising Bortles looked in 2015.

This off season is the season they could have really went after another QB. The problem is, you don't just go after somebody because you think you need to. There was literally nothing out there that would be an upgrade from Bortles. Nobody wants Henne on the field, but Henne is better than anybody who was in this past draft and anybody who was a FA. Bortles is obviously better than Henne.

It's easy to say that they have to try anything, just do something. That's far easier said then done though. Are you talking about teams being in the same situation as us this off season and improving? If so, every team improves on paper, in the off season. It doesn't really mean anything at this point in time. We wont know which teams improved and which teams got worse until the bullets really start flying.

Not to even mention that they DID take a QB in the 2016 draft. The pats taking some QBs over the 16 years Tom Brady has been kicking butt has nothing to do with anything. If there's a good QB to take, go ahead and take him, but taking guys that won't contribute on a bad team doesn't help anything.