Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

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If I had to rank the worst QB situations in the league it would be:

32 NY Jets (Petty, McCown, Hackenberg)
31 LA Rams (Goff, Mannion)
31 Cleveland (Kessler, Kizer, Osweiler)
30 San Francisco (Hoyer, Beathard, Barkley)
29 Jacksonville (Bortles, Henne, Allen)

I'm having a hard time throwing all the blame for Bortle's regression on Olson. I think the expectation was that Borltes had fixed his major mechanical flaws over the 2015 season that putting that much effort into the 2016 off-season. Bortles did mechanical work last off-season as all QB's do. Was it wrong not to go back to Tom House and his program, absolutely but it's such a hindsight thing to see? Thinking about guys that have done major mechanical work early in their careers (Rivers, Rodgers, Palmer, Dalton, Brady, Roethlisberger, Winston) It's almost a right of passage for NFL QB's to go to 3DQB).

Bortles has had chance after chance and this is the culminating change, right? I think the organization has been very fair and for the most part, so have the fans - Most are in agreement that he does deserve a chance. However when I look at Borltes skill set on top of his style of play - I see a player that we have to hide from defenses. Do you really want to ride with a QB that you have to constantly hold your breath on? Bortles is Tony Romo or Philip Rivers at his best and those guys only performed when it didn't matter at their best - I'm just not a fan of the style of play which is where I have a major issue. Bortles doesn't have (as of today) possess the Arm Talent (mechanically speaking) or decision-making functions of a Championship tier QB.

I'll give him a chance, I'll assume the FO didn't think any QB's were worth obtaining this offense but I have seen enough and I'd love to be wrong but I'm not going sugar-coat my thoughts in fears of someone calling me negative or a hater. It's just an honest evaluation and I don't want to see any player fail (especially ones wearing Black and Teal). I'm sure he's a wonderful human being with a soul and hopes and ambitions

In comparisons to the other positions, for example, the secondary - DC did what he thought was best each off-season. The Jags spent a ton on secondary including high picks. In a perfect world, Cyp would have obtained some coverage skills and became an elite SS but it didn't happen, Gratz didn't happen, House was wildly inconsistent - all those players were given opportunities just like Bortles will be. Caldwell has been aggressive and I much enjoy his aggressiveness and his ability to admit a mistake and move on from it. Joeckel was a bad pick, so he went out and signed Beachum and now trading for Albert while admitting a mistake on Thomas.

I can only assume that if Borltes loses his job then DC will be gone with him but I can't blame the strategy.

(06-25-2017, 09:10 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody wants Henne on the field, but Henne is better than anybody who was in this past draft and anybody who was a FA.

I'm not buying this.

Actually, I am buying the first part that nobody wants Henne on the field, but there were upgrades.

(06-26-2017, 12:02 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-25-2017, 09:10 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Nobody wants Henne on the field, but Henne is better than anybody who was in this past draft and anybody who was a FA.

I'm not buying this.

Actually, I am buying the first part that nobody wants Henne on the field, but there were upgrades.

Ok, then who do you think would have been an upgrade?

Edit: Wait do you mean an upgrade over Bortles, or Henne? If you're talking about Henne, then it really doesn't matter because upgrading a back up QB doesn't do much of anything. Who cares who's holding the clip board and keeping the bench seat warm.

Edit #2: And I understand everybody wants to think the back up QB is going to push Bortles, or whatever. That's not going to happen. Either Bortles wants to push himself, or he doesn't. It doesn't matter who's in the building. That's something he has to want for himself, regardless if there's somebody else there or not.

(06-26-2017, 12:21 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 12:02 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not buying this.

Actually, I am buying the first part that nobody wants Henne on the field, but there were upgrades.

Ok, then who do you think would have been an upgrade?

Edit: Wait do you mean an upgrade over Bortles, or Henne? If you're talking about Henne, then it really doesn't matter because upgrading a back up QB doesn't do much of anything. Who cares who's holding the clip board and keeping the bench seat warm.

Edit #2: And I understand everybody wants to think the back up QB is going to push Bortles, or whatever. That's not going to happen. Either Bortles wants to push himself, or he doesn't. It doesn't matter who's in the building. That's something he has to want for himself, regardless if there's somebody else there or not.

We'll all care quite a bit the moment Blake goes down with an injury. If there's any roster spot that can be improved, the team by all rights should make a move to improve it. The backup QB spot is one such spot, and I'm hoping the reason they haven't addressed Henne is that they feel Brandon Allen is good enough to unseat him.

(06-26-2017, 02:03 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 12:21 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, then who do you think would have been an upgrade?

Edit: Wait do you mean an upgrade over Bortles, or Henne? If you're talking about Henne, then it really doesn't matter because upgrading a back up QB doesn't do much of anything. Who cares who's holding the clip board and keeping the bench seat warm.

Edit #2: And I understand everybody wants to think the back up QB is going to push Bortles, or whatever. That's not going to happen. Either Bortles wants to push himself, or he doesn't. It doesn't matter who's in the building. That's something he has to want for himself, regardless if there's somebody else there or not.

We'll all care quite a bit the moment Blake goes down with an injury. If there's any roster spot that can be improved, the team by all rights should make a move to improve it. The backup QB spot is one such spot, and I'm hoping the reason they haven't addressed Henne is that they feel Brandon Allen is good enough to unseat him.

Agreed, but you still didn't answer the question though. You believe there was somebody that would be an upgrade over Henne. Who do you believe that was?

(06-26-2017, 03:11 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 02:03 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]We'll all care quite a bit the moment Blake goes down with an injury. If there's any roster spot that can be improved, the team by all rights should make a move to improve it. The backup QB spot is one such spot, and I'm hoping the reason they haven't addressed Henne is that they feel Brandon Allen is good enough to unseat him.

Agreed, but you still didn't answer the question though. You believe there was somebody that would be an upgrade over Henne. Who do you believe that was?

Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

(06-26-2017, 03:22 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 03:11 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, but you still didn't answer the question though. You believe there was somebody that would be an upgrade over Henne. Who do you believe that was?

Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

Kaepernick has zero touch on the football and can only throw bullets. Sure he can run, but a run first QB will never succeed in the NFL.

(06-26-2017, 03:22 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 03:11 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, but you still didn't answer the question though. You believe there was somebody that would be an upgrade over Henne. Who do you believe that was?

Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

I don't doubt that Kaepernick would play better than Henne if he were given the chance, but the last thing I'd want in a backup QB is a big team distraction, so bringing him in wouldn't make sense for a young team with a tough nosed new head coach trying to establish a winning culture.

(06-26-2017, 03:22 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 03:11 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, but you still didn't answer the question though. You believe there was somebody that would be an upgrade over Henne. Who do you believe that was?

Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

Sure, draconian rules Coughlin brings in the guy who pissed off 3/4s of the country by intentionally violating one of our basic social rules. Talk about turd in a punch bowl.

Nick Foles was available. No way you can say Henne is better than Foles. The same goes for EJ Manuel, Geno Smith and Chase Daniel.

(06-26-2017, 07:05 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 03:22 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

Sure, draconian rules Coughlin brings in the guy who pissed off 3/4s of the country by intentionally violating one of our basic social rules. Talk about turd in a punch bowl.

Exactly.

Plus, after watching Kaepernick play over the past couple of seasons, I honestly don't see him as an upgrade, even over Henne. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in the past.

(06-25-2017, 09:31 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-25-2017, 09:10 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Well they drafted Bortles in 2014.

In 2015 he was going into his 2nd year and there wasn't really a need to draft a QB high, or go after a high profile FA when Bortles was only going into his 2nd year. That would have been an awful situation and do nothing but cause distractions. I could just see the headlines.. "Wow the Jags drafted X QB, or signed X QB. They obviously must not have a lot of faith in Bortles, who's only going into his 2nd season."

Going into his 3rd year in 2016, he was coming off of what looked like a very promising year. All the talk was about us finally having our Franchise QB and it looked like we did. The QB position looked to be set for the foreseeable future. Would have been stupid to go after a QB after how promising Bortles looked in 2015.

This off season is the season they could have really went after another QB. The problem is, you don't just go after somebody because you think you need to. There was literally nothing out there that would be an upgrade from Bortles. Nobody wants Henne on the field, but Henne is better than anybody who was in this past draft and anybody who was a FA. Bortles is obviously better than Henne.

It's easy to say that they have to try anything, just do something. That's far easier said then done though. Are you talking about teams being in the same situation as us this off season and improving? If so, every team improves on paper, in the off season. It doesn't really mean anything at this point in time. We wont know which teams improved and which teams got worse until the bullets really start flying.

Not to even mention that they DID take a QB in the 2016 draft. The pats taking some QBs over the 16 years Tom Brady has been kicking butt has nothing to do with anything. If there's a good QB to take, go ahead and take him, but taking guys that won't contribute on a bad team doesn't help anything.

It has a lot to do with seeing how teams go about building and protecting their teams. Brandon Allen may very well end up being a solid QB down the road. Hopefully he does enough in these next few months to take Henne's job from him.

There were multiple chances to add more depth and competition to the roster. I don't care that Bortles had a stellar season "on paper" in 2015. Our defense was trash that year and he was Captain Garbage time no matter how anybody else wants to slice it. His second half numbers were always better than his first half numbers.

At the very minimum, you went out and drafted Bortles and had to abandon your initial hopes of sitting him his first year in 2014 BECAUSE Henne sucked and couldn't get it done. So, why keep Henne after that fact alone? You couldn't have added more youth behind him between 2015 - 2016?

And as far as "Where?" or "Who?".

2015 - Bryce Petty, Garrett Grayson, Brett Hundley via draft & Jake Locker, Brian Hoyer or Michael Vick via FA.
2016 - Cody Kessler, Connor Cook, Dak Prescott via draft & Ryan Fitzpatrick, RGIII, Chase Daniel, Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel via FA.

And I think my initial point was being missed. I wasn't asking this front office to go out and sign a starter over Bortles. The point was that we saw continuous efforts made everywhere but the QB position to make it potentially better or more competitive. And before the "Well, what have any of those guys done?". Same can be said for Henne and Bortles. What have they done again?

And any of those players could have had different or better outcomes here in Jacksonville compared to where they ended up. So the door swings both ways. Point is. TRY.

(06-26-2017, 08:21 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Not to even mention that they DID take a QB in the 2016 draft.

I can almost see it now....

Jags enter Playoffs, only in the final regular season game you can tell Blake's arm just went limp again. Suddenly he can't throw.

On comes Brandon Allen, and the rest is history. The Jaguars go on to dominate football for the next decade winning SB after SB. They become the Duval Dynasty.

Hey, one can dream.

(06-26-2017, 03:22 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 03:11 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, but you still didn't answer the question though. You believe there was somebody that would be an upgrade over Henne. Who do you believe that was?

Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

Henne can at least read a defense somewhat. Henne is a very underrated back-up

(06-26-2017, 02:28 PM)TheAll22 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 03:22 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

Henne can at least read a defense somewhat. Henne is a very underrated back-up

No... he's really not.

(06-26-2017, 02:52 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 02:28 PM)TheAll22 Wrote: [ -> ]Henne can at least read a defense somewhat. Henne is a very underrated back-up

No... he's really not.

In term of this board absolutely - The Henne hate is solely based on his age/image and nothing to do with his ability as a pro athlete

Bortles has done very little to separate himself from Henne.

(06-26-2017, 01:14 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 08:21 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Not to even mention that they DID take a QB in the 2016 draft.
I can almost see it now....

Jags enter Playoffs, only in the final regular season game you can tell Blake's arm just went limp again. Suddenly he can't throw.

On comes Brandon Allen, and the rest is history. The Jaguars go on to dominate football for the next decade winning SB after SB. They become the Duval Dynasty.

Hey, one can dream.

lol If Allen ever touches the field in a game that matters, it would be a disaster .. but hey dream on

(06-26-2017, 02:28 PM)TheAll22 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 03:22 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Heck, Kaepernick would be an upgrade to Henne.

Henne can at least read a defense somewhat. Henne is a very underrated back-up

I agree. Many people on this board hate on him so much because of his short stint as the starting QB, but fail to realize the "supporting" cast around him during that time-frame wasn't exactly ideal.

Nobody is saying that he's a superstar by any means, but he is a veteran that can manage a game and not lose it for you.

(06-26-2017, 04:10 PM)TheAll22 Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-26-2017, 02:52 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]No... he's really not.

In term of this board absolutely - The Henne hate is solely based on his age/image and nothing to do with his ability as a pro athlete

Bortles has done very little to separate himself from Henne.

I get where you're coming from. I mean Chad Henne's career TDs in 65 games = 58. Blake Bortles TDs over the past two seasons = 58.

It's almost like they're exactly the same player.

Am I the only one that remembers Henne being woefully unable to complete a very basic 10-15 yard out route during the 2016 preseason?
The ball was getting there so late I was certain he'd be picked each time it left his hands.

In pre- week three he went 7 for 18 for 75 yards. The o-line was really bad, but he looked like he was in "wing and a prayer mode" every time he released the ball.

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