09-01-2017, 12:18 PM
I don't understand why ANYONE (cough, FBT) would prefer Henne over anyone? The Jags cannot win with him, i'll take unpredictable over dink and donk boy any day of the week.
09-01-2017, 12:18 PM
09-01-2017, 12:26 PM
(09-01-2017, 11:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 11:33 AM)TheAll22 Wrote: [ -> ]I tried explaining Allen's deficiencies months ago and was attacked ...
The Westbrook TD was perfect, it's a shame he doesn't have the arm strength to do things like that more consistently where he hits a WR in time...
Allen doesn't have the elite arm strength to put the ball where he want's...
While I didn't agree with all of your points in that post from months back, I have noticed that he does have a tendency to "heave" the ball (on deeper throws) as you suggested, and his velocity is sometimes sub-par when he doesn't do that.
Nonetheless, he's had some success with that "heaving" motion when he's got protection and a guy like Westbrook to heave it to.
He's got enough velocity on the short stuff, and can heave it effectively on the deeper stuff.
It's his lack of velocity on intermediate throws that stand out as a weakness to me. He'll need a clean pocket and great timing on his pass to complete those IMO.
For instance, the throw to Westbrook over the middle last week that was nearly picked, and the out route to the TE last night that was picked. One he just barely squeaked by on, and the second should have been thrown away as he couldn't step into it. (he should have just thrown that pass to Ellis out of bounds.)
I see it as a problem that can be mitigated with the right playbook and coaching.
(09-01-2017, 11:34 AM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough. Just call it even across the board, including mod and admins. I've seen much, much worse from many of them without warning.Will do. Thank you.
Do you think it's a feet issue? I feel like if he doesn't have the time to set his feet, he can't get the pop or drive he wants. Like when he gets his feet set, he can go through a complete rhythm - much like a baseball player. I think he might have the best technique of all three QB's because he can make most necessary throws like you'd said
I think you could play around his flaws. I'm curious if it's enough that he would be the best option right now.
09-01-2017, 12:40 PM
Brandon Allen just doesn't have an NFL arm. He has enough arm when he has a clean pocket, but he really has to step into throws. If its a dirty pocket and he can't get his feet set, or he has a short window to read and react, his balls hang for too long.
09-01-2017, 12:44 PM
(09-01-2017, 12:26 PM)TheAll22 Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 11:44 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]...
It's his lack of velocity on intermediate throws that stand out as a weakness to me. He'll need a clean pocket and great timing on his pass to complete those IMO.
For instance, the throw to Westbrook over the middle last week that was nearly picked, and the out route to the TE last night that was picked. One he just barely squeaked by on, and the second should have been thrown away as he couldn't step into it. (he should have just thrown that pass to Ellis out of bounds.)
I see it as a problem that can be mitigated with the right playbook and coaching.
Do you think it's a feet issue? I feel like if he doesn't have the time to set his feet, he can't get the pop or drive he wants. Like when he gets his feet set, he can go through a complete rhythm - much like a baseball player. I think he might have the best technique of all three QB's because he can make most necessary throws like you'd said
I think you could play around his flaws. I'm curious if it's enough that he would be the best option right now.
It very well could be. I haven't analyzed it to that extent, that I have a strong opinion as to why it's happening. I think it may be the feet and an arm strength issue to some degree, since he compensates with the heaving thing on deep passes, but doesn't seem to do that on the intermediate stuff.
09-01-2017, 12:49 PM
To me the whole game looked like a college game. Keep in mind, the vast majority of the players that played last night are going to be unemployed tomorrow (if not sooner).
Allen looked alright, but not really someone that I would want to keep as a backup at this point. I kind of think that he's destined for the practice squad. I just don't think that the team will use a roster spot to "protect" him from being picked up by another team. Another team would have to be pretty desperate at the position to claim him at this point.
Allen looked alright, but not really someone that I would want to keep as a backup at this point. I kind of think that he's destined for the practice squad. I just don't think that the team will use a roster spot to "protect" him from being picked up by another team. Another team would have to be pretty desperate at the position to claim him at this point.
09-01-2017, 01:18 PM
(09-01-2017, 12:49 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]To me the whole game looked like a college game. Keep in mind, the vast majority of the players that played last night are going to be unemployed tomorrow (if not sooner).
Allen looked alright, but not really someone that I would want to keep as a backup at this point. I kind of think that he's destined for the practice squad. I just don't think that the team will use a roster spot to "protect" him from being picked up by another team. Another team would have to be pretty desperate at the position to claim him at this point.
Exactly. All he did was show that Westbrook was the one that has to be on the roster. Brandon can go to the practice squad.
09-01-2017, 02:45 PM
(09-01-2017, 12:40 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Brandon Allen just doesn't have an NFL arm. He has enough arm when he has a clean pocket, but he really has to step into throws. If its a dirty pocket and he can't get his feet set, or he has a short window to read and react, his balls hang for too long.
But, brandon allen arm has about equal to avg arm strength qbs such as brady, peyton with the neck problems, brees, matt ryan, montana, warner. The cannon arm strength requirement is overrated.
09-01-2017, 02:48 PM
(09-01-2017, 11:13 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]I missed the game sadly. I saw some clips though, 2 were hardly "his fault" but they still count the same.. I still would want him at QB2, and develop him some more.
Sorry, but INT#1 was a poorly thrown fade route. He came up short of where the ball should have been placed, and it was picked. That's a pass that you throw to the back corner of the end zone and let your receiver go get. He was about 5 yards short.
INT#2 was a bad decision on his part. He tried to force a pass in and the DB jumped the play and picked it off. That's on him.
INT#3 is the only one where an argument could be made that it was just one of those things that happen, but the camera angle on the play couldn't have been any better. Allen's pass was tipped because he threw to the inside while his intended target was turned to the outside. Even if it hadn't been tipped, it darn sure wouldn't have been caught. Now, one could argue that it was either a poorly placed pass, or his target was turned the wrong way. Tough to say if there was some sort of miscommunication there.
Keep in mind that all 3 interceptions came from DBs on the bottom of Atlanta's roster. These weren't the front line guys he was going up against. These are guys who may only have that highlight for their entire NFL career as they'll be returning to their day jobs on Monday.
09-01-2017, 02:54 PM
(09-01-2017, 12:18 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand why ANYONE (cough, FBT) would prefer Henne over anyone? The Jags cannot win with him, i'll take unpredictable over dink and donk boy any day of the week.
I don't prefer Henne. I just don't think there's any benefit to cutting him over Allen. Allen should be groomed to become the long-term solution at backup because that's about the pinnacle expectation for his career. You want a backup who is going to avoid mistakes. We saw Allen make 3 major gaffes in the red zone last night against scrubs.
At the end of the day, what I'd PREFER is for some team to release a backup QB who is actually better than what we have right now. I don't expect that to happen, but if it did, I'd expect to see the front office make a run at another QB, cut Allen and drop him on the practice squad, and let Henne take the walk of shame. Barring that happening, the team is still better served to go with Henne as the backup. That's not my preference. That's the preference of the people paid to make that decision.
09-01-2017, 02:55 PM
(09-01-2017, 02:48 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 11:13 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]I missed the game sadly. I saw some clips though, 2 were hardly "his fault" but they still count the same.. I still would want him at QB2, and develop him some more.
Sorry, but INT#1 was a poorly thrown fade route. He came up short of where the ball should have been placed, and it was picked. That's a pass that you throw to the back corner of the end zone and let your receiver go get. He was about 5 yards short.
INT#2 was a bad decision on his part. He tried to force a pass in and the DB jumped the play and picked it off. That's on him.
INT#3 is the only one where an argument could be made that it was just one of those things that happen, but the camera angle on the play couldn't have been any better. Allen's pass was tipped because he threw to the inside while his intended target was turned to the outside. Even if it hadn't been tipped, it darn sure wouldn't have been caught. Now, one could argue that it was either a poorly placed pass, or his target was turned the wrong way. Tough to say if there was some sort of miscommunication there.
Keep in mind that all 3 interceptions came from DBs on the bottom of Atlanta's roster. These weren't the front line guys he was going up against. These are guys who may only have that highlight for their entire NFL career as they'll be returning to their day jobs on Monday.
But, mark brunnell likes allen. He said those makes were from lack of game time reps.
09-01-2017, 02:56 PM
09-01-2017, 03:00 PM
09-01-2017, 03:02 PM
(09-01-2017, 02:48 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 11:13 AM)JagsFanSince95 Wrote: [ -> ]I missed the game sadly. I saw some clips though, 2 were hardly "his fault" but they still count the same.. I still would want him at QB2, and develop him some more.
Sorry, but INT#1 was a poorly thrown fade route. He came up short of where the ball should have been placed, and it was picked. That's a pass that you throw to the back corner of the end zone and let your receiver go get. He was about 5 yards short.
INT#2 was a bad decision on his part. He tried to force a pass in and the DB jumped the play and picked it off. That's on him.
INT#3 is the only one where an argument could be made that it was just one of those things that happen, but the camera angle on the play couldn't have been any better. Allen's pass was tipped because he threw to the inside while his intended target was turned to the outside. Even if it hadn't been tipped, it darn sure wouldn't have been caught. Now, one could argue that it was either a poorly placed pass, or his target was turned the wrong way. Tough to say if there was some sort of miscommunication there.
Keep in mind that all 3 interceptions came from DBs on the bottom of Atlanta's roster. These weren't the front line guys he was going up against. These are guys who may only have that highlight for their entire NFL career as they'll be returning to their day jobs on Monday.
Int #1 wasn't just a bad throw, it was a terrible decision, and showed a lot about Allen. Westbrook was double covered, the guy that intercepted the pass had deep coverage on him and another guy was trailing. Allen stared a double covered guy down and threw it there anyway. It was like Bortles on his worst day.
If the deep defender didn't have the coverage over the top throwing that pass makes sense, but what the pass really showed is that Allen didn't have a clue, he didn't make any reads and probably was completely tunnel visioned for Dede. That was what his success was in the preseason, throwing passes that should have been intercepted to the best third string WR in the NFL this preseason.
09-01-2017, 03:25 PM
As I said before. Last night's game was pretty much a college game. Aside from a handful of players from both teams, none of the players that played last night are going to be employed as of tomorrow at 4pm eastern.
09-01-2017, 03:50 PM
(09-01-2017, 02:45 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 12:40 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ]Brandon Allen just doesn't have an NFL arm. He has enough arm when he has a clean pocket, but he really has to step into throws. If its a dirty pocket and he can't get his feet set, or he has a short window to read and react, his balls hang for too long.
But, brandon allen arm has about equal to avg arm strength qbs such as brady, peyton with the neck problems, brees, matt ryan, montana, warner. The cannon arm strength requirement is overrated.
There is a difference between inadequate arm strength and average arm strength. Allen teeters the edge.
09-01-2017, 04:54 PM
(09-01-2017, 03:50 PM)FreeAgent01 Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 02:45 PM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]But, brandon allen arm has about equal to avg arm strength qbs such as brady, peyton with the neck problems, brees, matt ryan, montana, warner. The cannon arm strength requirement is overrated.
There is a difference between inadequate arm strength and average arm strength. Allen teeters the edge.
Yeah, he throws a really pretty ball so it masks it, but he does only have barely adequate NFL arm strength. His ceiling is probably something like Matt Schaub. If everything is going right he can play well, but if he loses velocity due to age or pressure or whatever reason, he will become an interception machine.
Also, I give some fault to Dede Westbrook on the first interception. he got jammed badly and didn't win his route whatsoever.
09-01-2017, 05:10 PM
(09-01-2017, 08:59 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 06:53 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Ummm...
Sasquatch compared to a short QB is a bad analogy. No?
I didn't call him stupid, or "devoid of brain cells." Just pointed out a bad analogy.
I didn't take offense to what you said to me because we all have our own opinion the situation even if it's misunderstood. I didn't say the word Sasquatch when its related to Allen because of his height but because of the mythical stature around him as an NFL QB.
09-01-2017, 05:14 PM
(09-01-2017, 05:10 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]I figured that was your point. I was just trying to funny. Of course your analogy makes sense in that respect.(09-01-2017, 08:59 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Sasquatch compared to a short QB is a bad analogy. No?
I didn't call him stupid, or "devoid of brain cells." Just pointed out a bad analogy.
I didn't take offense to what you said to me because we all have our own opinion the situation even if it's misunderstood. I didn't say the word Sasquatch when its related to Allen because of his height but because of the mythical stature around him as an NFL QB.
09-01-2017, 08:19 PM
(08-31-2017, 10:41 PM)Rooster Wrote: [ -> ]If he was 5" taller and didn't throw more picks than Bortles he'd be great!
starting QBs that Allen is equal to or taller than...
- Aaron Rodgers
- Dak Prescott
- Andy Dalton
- Brian Hoyer
- Teddy Bridgewater (not starting due to injury)
- Drew Brees
- Tyrod Taylor
- Russell Wilson
- Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bucs
- Deshone Watson, Texans
- Jimmy Garoppollo, Patriots
- Mark Sanchez, Bears (#3)
- CJ Beathard, 49ers
- Trevone Boykin, Seahawks
- Case Keenum, Vikings
- Kellen Moore, Cowboys
- Colt McCoy, Redskins
- Kellen Clemmons, Chargers
- Cody Kessler, Browns
- Nathan Peterman, Bills (#3)
09-01-2017, 08:31 PM
(09-01-2017, 02:54 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ](09-01-2017, 12:18 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand why ANYONE (cough, FBT) would prefer Henne over anyone? The Jags cannot win with him, i'll take unpredictable over dink and donk boy any day of the week.
I don't prefer Henne. I just don't think there's any benefit to cutting him over Allen. Allen should be groomed to become the long-term solution at backup because that's about the pinnacle expectation for his career. You want a backup who is going to avoid mistakes. We saw Allen make 3 major gaffes in the red zone last night against scrubs.
At the end of the day, what I'd PREFER is for some team to release a backup QB who is actually better than what we have right now. I don't expect that to happen, but if it did, I'd expect to see the front office make a run at another QB, cut Allen and drop him on the practice squad, and let Henne take the walk of shame. Barring that happening, the team is still better served to go with Henne as the backup. That's not my preference. That's the preference of the people paid to make that decision.
Henne fails in so many areas where Allen is just better. The only knock right now on Allen are those INTs, but I see him improving quickly if he were to actually get real reps. The first two INTs were on him, but both would have often landed incomplete as it took an outstanding effort on the part of the DBs to come up with them.
The thing is, the offense moves well when he's in there. You just can't say the same about Henne. Besides, Allen offers hope for the future, a future where Henne is retired. Why not open up that roster spot? The Jaguars can most definitely utilize the spot with someone who offers more to the team than Henne.