(01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 11:36 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]14 of the last 15 AFC champions had Brady, Big Ben, or Peyton Manning as the AFC representative, with Flacco's fluke run being the exception. You don't need an exceptional QB to make a playoff run...but if you want it to be sustainable year to year you do.
We did a great job catching lightning in a bottle with a terrible division, super easy schedule, and exceptional injury luck. If we keep the status quo everything is unlikely to break in our favor again, and it's likely we'll regret that we punched a long term ticket to ride the Bortles roller coaster.
So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
Lol so easy!! People seem to forget that we have some All Time great QBs playing right now. You won't have a super group of QBs like this again for a long time.
Brady
Rodgers
Peyton
Ben
Brees
These are all generational QBs that somehow ended up in the same generation.
(01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 11:36 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]14 of the last 15 AFC champions had Brady, Big Ben, or Peyton Manning as the AFC representative, with Flacco's fluke run being the exception. You don't need an exceptional QB to make a playoff run...but if you want it to be sustainable year to year you do.
We did a great job catching lightning in a bottle with a terrible division, super easy schedule, and exceptional injury luck. If we keep the status quo everything is unlikely to break in our favor again, and it's likely we'll regret that we punched a long term ticket to ride the Bortles roller coaster.
So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott and DeShaun Watson have all been drafted in the last 3 years and all either appear to be or have flashed, abilities to be future stars at the QB spot. Their respective teams recognized this and went out and drafted them. We can't be afraid to do the same thing, just because it's a long shot. Sometimes you have to take risks. Now, is the perfect time. Outside of QB, our only major needs are TE and OG. If not now, when? I don't wanna be stuck in mediocrity, just because we wanna play it safe. I'm willing to swing the bat and go for a home run. Maybe we strike out or maybe, just maybe, we find a future star at the QB position which can elevate this team even further.
(01-19-2018, 10:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott and DeShaun Watson have all been drafted in the last 3 years and all either appear to be or have flashed, abilities to be future stars at the QB spot. Their respective teams recognized this and went out and drafted them. We can't be afraid to do the same thing, just because it's a long shot. Sometimes you have to take risks. Now, is the perfect time. Outside of QB, our only major needs are TE and OG. If not now, when? I don't wanna be stuck in mediocrity, just because we wanna play it safe. I'm willing to swing the bat and go for a home run. Maybe we strike out or maybe, just maybe, we find a future star at the QB position which can elevate this team even further.
I'm not saying he's trash...
but Dak really came back down to Earth this year...
But the potential Watson flashed (assuming he comes back from ACL 100) along with Goff and Wentz... and given the upside of guys like Mariota, Winston, Carr, Bortles, and the guys coming out Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, etc
We COULD see a very thick QB club of great to elite in the next few years. Granted, more than likely guys will flame out and become backups or nada (I'm looking at you Ms. Mary). But it isn't crazy to think in the year 2020 the NFL could essentially have replaced Manning/Brady/Rivers/Big Ben/Brees with guys like Rodgers and Wilson being the "old men elite" and Watson/Goff/Wentz and a few other young guys being prem-o QB talents.
IDK if we'll ever see a draft like 2004 but this coming one could potentially top it when it comes to star QBs drafted in the first. Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Rudolph, Jackson in theory could all be 1st round QBs.
(01-19-2018, 10:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott and DeShaun Watson have all been drafted in the last 3 years and all either appear to be or have flashed, abilities to be future stars at the QB spot. Their respective teams recognized this and went out and drafted them. We can't be afraid to do the same thing, just because it's a long shot. Sometimes you have to take risks. Now, is the perfect time. Outside of QB, our only major needs are TE and OG. If not now, when? I don't wanna be stuck in mediocrity, just because we wanna play it safe. I'm willing to swing the bat and go for a home run. Maybe we strike out or maybe, just maybe, we find a future star at the QB position which can elevate this team even further.
Maybe
we don't all feel the same way that
you do. And in reality, if the Jaguars like him it doesn't really matter.
(01-19-2018, 10:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott and DeShaun Watson have all been drafted in the last 3 years and all either appear to be or have flashed, abilities to be future stars at the QB spot. Their respective teams recognized this and went out and drafted them. We can't be afraid to do the same thing, just because it's a long shot. Sometimes you have to take risks. Now, is the perfect time. Outside of QB, our only major needs are TE and OG. If not now, when? I don't wanna be stuck in mediocrity, just because we wanna play it safe. I'm willing to swing the bat and go for a home run. Maybe we strike out or maybe, just maybe, we find a future star at the QB position which can elevate this team even further.
How would you feel with the Memphis kid in the 3rd or 4th? Using 1st and 2nd round picks on TE and OG.
While having Blake ride out his 5th year option?
(01-18-2018, 07:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 04:38 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]I don't get the hate for the guy...
He's young and he's still learning the game of football.
Oh, and he got us to the AFC Championship.
He did not get us to the AFC Championship. The entire team got us here. Largely, thanks to the defense. One QB, especially an erratic one should not take so much credit for where we are. Just look at the Buffalo game. Bortles was bailed out by our defense. This past week, Blake performed much better and although the defense gave up more points than usual. If you look at the long TD strikes by Pittsburgh though, the coverage was spot on. Roethlisberger just threw it to the perfect spot and his receivers made great catches. Football is a team game and the entire team should be congratulated for getting us here. QB's normally get the bulk of the credit, but in this case, the offense and defense are equally as important. So far, when one side has a bad week, the other side performs great and it saves us.
Many Jags fans were critics the last 4 years.......... When the o line was bad and Luke Jockel, it was Bortles fault. When the coaching and Gus Bradley was bad, it was Bortles fault. When the running game was bad and Toby Gerhart, it was Bortles fault. When the scoring defense was bad #26-#32 for 3 years, it was Bortles fault.
This year, without Allen Robinson, without Marquise Lee 3 games, Allen Hurns 7 games, Leonard Fournette 3 games (3-0 without him), without Dede Westbrook 8 games........Bortles has been a tough [BLEEP]. I think almost ANY other QB being drafted in that situation (Browns like situation/media pressure) would have wilted.
Jags are lucky to have him. Glad their fans and critics ate crow.
(01-18-2018, 09:36 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 08:12 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]The Ravens let Dilfer walk after their Super Bowl win. Dilfer had at least as inoffensive a postseason as Bortles has. Food for thought. My hunch is that Coughlin is not the type to let a little thing like a deep playoff run result in keeping a guy who walked into a great situation but really isn't that great.
How many of those TDs came before the opposing team had a two-touchdown lead?
A Dilfer comparison, followed up by the garbage time argument. How original!!
What is garbage time? Another fairy tale from ignorant people. If garbage time was so easy, why isn't every QB throwing for 35 TDs a year?
Wentz was a more mature and NFL ready QB coming out. He is the same age as Bortles and last year had pedestrian numbers. He has had one good year. By no means a sure thing to be a top QB going forward. Dak Prescott came out of nowhere. He was drafted in the 4th round and he has had only a single great season. Again Goff, one great year but was horrible last year. Watson had a good 4 game stretch which included the Browns. None of these quarterbacks are a guaranteed upgrade long term. In my opinion the only guaranteed upgrades at the position are Brady, Ryan, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Brees, and Wilson. None will be available to the Jaguars next season. I'm not saying don't draft a QB, but we won't be drafting high enough to get one of the top 3. There is a chance to hit a home run by drafting a QB later but Bortles would be a better option for next year and it would be better to have the rookie sit a year rather than throw them in the fire with Super Bowl aspirations and watch them struggle as a young QB with no NFL experience which is what happens in the majority of the situations where a rookie QB starts.
(01-19-2018, 10:57 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott and DeShaun Watson have all been drafted in the last 3 years and all either appear to be or have flashed, abilities to be future stars at the QB spot. Their respective teams recognized this and went out and drafted them. We can't be afraid to do the same thing, just because it's a long shot. Sometimes you have to take risks. Now, is the perfect time. Outside of QB, our only major needs are TE and OG. If not now, when? I don't wanna be stuck in mediocrity, just because we wanna play it safe. I'm willing to swing the bat and go for a home run. Maybe we strike out or maybe, just maybe, we find a future star at the QB position which can elevate this team even further.
Yawn. None of those scrubs have their teams anywhere near where Bortles has HIS team.
One year Mariota is the flavor of the week. Next year it's Luck. Next year it's Carr. Next year it's Jameis.
Guess what.....Bortles is 2-0 in the playoffs and has every Jags passing record in history.
No one cares what u think. Bortles is playing with KEELAN COLE in the playoffs while Hall of Famers have Antonio Brown. If you don't think he elevates players you're out of your mind.
(01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
That's the goal, yes. It's really darn hard to sustain winning without a true franchise QB. Players get old, players get expensive, players get hurt. If we want this perfect storm of weak division, easy schedule, and fortunate health luck to translate into long term sustainability we should stay diligent on the path of upgrading QB.
(01-19-2018, 11:55 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 08:57 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]So all we have to do is draft the next Peyton Manning, Ben Rothliesberger, or Tom Brady. Brilliant plan.
That's the goal, yes. It's really darn hard to sustain winning without a true franchise QB. Players get old, players get expensive, players get hurt. If we want this perfect storm of weak division, easy schedule, and fortunate health luck to translate into long term sustainability we should stay diligent on the path of upgrading QB.
What a joke. So how long have those players been around? And in that timespan you, yourself, said that one other quarterback has snuck in there. And allll of the quarterbacks drafted in that same timespan and only one has won the AFC. What a joke. Using three first ballot HOF quarterbacks as a measuring stick...as if that's the norm. Come back to reality for a while.
(01-19-2018, 11:42 AM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying don't draft a QB, but we won't be drafting high enough to get one of the top 3. There is a chance to hit a home run by drafting a QB later but Bortles would be a better option for next year and it would be better to have the rookie sit a year rather than throw them in the fire with Super Bowl aspirations and watch them struggle as a young QB with no NFL experience which is what happens in the majority of the situations where a rookie QB starts.
I should clarify again as I have in many other threads but maybe not this one. I am ok with Bortles on the 5th year option and drafting a QB as high as possible, hopefully in a trade up if a good prospect starts slipping like Mahomes/Watson did last year. I don't think it's as good as signing Cousins or trading for Smith (while also drafting QB early), but it's an ok option. I am not ok with giving Bortles an extension and drafting a mid round long shot QB to develop as has been suggested by many in this thread.
(01-19-2018, 11:59 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 11:55 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]That's the goal, yes. It's really darn hard to sustain winning without a true franchise QB. Players get old, players get expensive, players get hurt. If we want this perfect storm of weak division, easy schedule, and fortunate health luck to translate into long term sustainability we should stay diligent on the path of upgrading QB.
What a joke. So how long have those players been around? And in that timespan you, yourself, said that one other quarterback has snuck in there. And allll of the quarterbacks drafted in that same timespan and only one has won the AFC. What a joke. Using three first ballot HOF quarterbacks as a measuring stick...as if that's the norm. Come back to reality for a while.
I didn't say that's the norm, I said that's the goal. It's a far more noble goal than settling on average. And it's even more attainable now that that group of Brady/Ben/Brees is close to their way out.
(01-19-2018, 11:59 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 11:42 AM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying don't draft a QB, but we won't be drafting high enough to get one of the top 3. There is a chance to hit a home run by drafting a QB later but Bortles would be a better option for next year and it would be better to have the rookie sit a year rather than throw them in the fire with Super Bowl aspirations and watch them struggle as a young QB with no NFL experience which is what happens in the majority of the situations where a rookie QB starts.
I should clarify again as I have in many other threads but maybe not this one. I am ok with Bortles on the 5th year option and drafting a QB as high as possible, hopefully in a trade up if a good prospect starts slipping like Mahomes/Watson did last year. I don't think it's as good as signing Cousins or trading for Smith (while also drafting QB early), but it's an ok option. I am not ok with giving Bortles an extension and drafting a mid round long shot QB to develop as has been suggested by many in this thread.
I'm not sure Cousins is a guaranteed upgrade. In his 25 and 26 year old seasons he threw for 14 touchdowns and 16 interceptions with a QB rating of 74.3. Even this season (29 years old) his Total QBR was lower than Bortles. 0-2 in the playoffs with a rating lower than Bortles. Bortles is also without a #1 receiver and or a decent tight end. Could Cousins turn out better than Bortles going forward? Maybe, but it is far from a certainty. People get on Bortles for turning it over. His career INT % is 2.9. Kirk Cousins at age 26 had a career 4.7% INT %.
(01-19-2018, 11:39 AM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 07:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]He did not get us to the AFC Championship. The entire team got us here. Largely, thanks to the defense. One QB, especially an erratic one should not take so much credit for where we are. Just look at the Buffalo game. Bortles was bailed out by our defense. This past week, Blake performed much better and although the defense gave up more points than usual. If you look at the long TD strikes by Pittsburgh though, the coverage was spot on. Roethlisberger just threw it to the perfect spot and his receivers made great catches. Football is a team game and the entire team should be congratulated for getting us here. QB's normally get the bulk of the credit, but in this case, the offense and defense are equally as important. So far, when one side has a bad week, the other side performs great and it saves us.
Many Jags fans were critics the last 4 years.......... When the o line was bad and Luke Jockel, it was Bortles fault. When the coaching and Gus Bradley was bad, it was Bortles fault. When the running game was bad and Toby Gerhart, it was Bortles fault. When the scoring defense was bad #26-#32 for 3 years, it was Bortles fault.
This is just wrong. Sure there were always some "Never Bortles" type folks...
But for his first 3 seasons, most people bent over backwards to give Bortles the benefit of the doubt.
Including many of the people that decided in the preseason this year Bortles wasn't "the guy".
But whatever... keep banging that drum for ya boy.
Well, we ain't cutting him, that's for sure. I'd say he's at least going to get that fifth-year $19mm while we decide whether to long-term extend or not. But, a long-term deal this offseason is very possible.
Look, I get his deficiencies. But, he's done enough to warrant keeping him as our starting QB. Also, I don't know, it just feels like moving on from Blake now would be a blow to team chemistry. It just wouldn't feel right. Like when Shane Falco got benched for the [BLEEP] hotshot guy, if I can be a little silly for a minute. Blake's our Shane Falco.
(01-19-2018, 12:52 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 11:59 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I should clarify again as I have in many other threads but maybe not this one. I am ok with Bortles on the 5th year option and drafting a QB as high as possible, hopefully in a trade up if a good prospect starts slipping like Mahomes/Watson did last year. I don't think it's as good as signing Cousins or trading for Smith (while also drafting QB early), but it's an ok option. I am not ok with giving Bortles an extension and drafting a mid round long shot QB to develop as has been suggested by many in this thread.
I'm not sure Cousins is a guaranteed upgrade. In his 25 and 26 year old seasons he threw for 14 touchdowns and 16 interceptions with a QB rating of 74.3. Even this season (29 years old) his Total QBR was lower than Bortles. 0-2 in the playoffs with a rating lower than Bortles. Bortles is also without a #1 receiver and or a decent tight end. Could Cousins turn out better than Bortles going forward? Maybe, but it is far from a certainty. People get on Bortles for turning it over. His career INT % is 2.9. Kirk Cousins at age 26 had a career 4.7% INT %.
People on this board will say ANY QB is an upgrade. Tebow, Kaepernick, Cousins, Joe Nameth.....they don't have a clue.
Bortles career path is better than any QB the Jags can acquire.
(01-19-2018, 12:54 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 11:39 AM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ]Many Jags fans were critics the last 4 years.......... When the o line was bad and Luke Jockel, it was Bortles fault. When the coaching and Gus Bradley was bad, it was Bortles fault. When the running game was bad and Toby Gerhart, it was Bortles fault. When the scoring defense was bad #26-#32 for 3 years, it was Bortles fault.
This is just wrong. Sure there were always some "Never Bortles" type folks...
But for his first 3 seasons, most people bent over backwards to give Bortles the benefit of the doubt.
Including many of the people that decided in the preseason this year Bortles wasn't "the guy".
But whatever... keep banging that drum for ya boy.
No they didn't. You're out of your mind.
When Bortles was 2nd in the NFL in TD passes at age 23 (been done once ever in history of NFL at that age), with no help around him (Luke Joeckel and Toby Gerhart hahaha) there were people wondering why he ONLY performs in garbage time when the defense was #32 in scoring defense. It's embarrassing how ignorant fans are here. The entire team was ALWAYS in garbage time because they were giving up 51 points to Mariota and 36 to EJ Manuel.
Plenty of crow to eat for everyone.
(01-19-2018, 12:52 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 11:59 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I should clarify again as I have in many other threads but maybe not this one. I am ok with Bortles on the 5th year option and drafting a QB as high as possible, hopefully in a trade up if a good prospect starts slipping like Mahomes/Watson did last year. I don't think it's as good as signing Cousins or trading for Smith (while also drafting QB early), but it's an ok option. I am not ok with giving Bortles an extension and drafting a mid round long shot QB to develop as has been suggested by many in this thread.
I'm not sure Cousins is a guaranteed upgrade. In his 25 and 26 year old seasons he threw for 14 touchdowns and 16 interceptions with a QB rating of 74.3. Even this season (29 years old) his Total QBR was lower than Bortles. 0-2 in the playoffs with a rating lower than Bortles. Bortles is also without a #1 receiver and or a decent tight end. Could Cousins turn out better than Bortles going forward? Maybe, but it is far from a certainty. People get on Bortles for turning it over. His career INT % is 2.9. Kirk Cousins at age 26 had a career 4.7% INT %.
He started 3 and 5 games respectively in his age 25 and 26 seasons because they hadn't committed to him with RG3 in the way until the following season which was his 4th season and a contract year. They didn't have a 5th year option because he wasn't a 1st rounder. They've since tagged him twice because they needed to see more before committing to him. I'm fine with throwing out Bortles' prior seasons, but Cousins is a prime example why Bortles shouldn't and probably won't get the long term deal yet, unless he is the reason we go on and win the Super Bowl and even then the smart thing to do is probably let it play out next year under the option. He's played well and been the reason we've won a few times this season, but the vast majority of Jaguars victories this season were defensively led victories that a lot of QBs could've coasted to victory with. Most of our losses, however, were due to the offense and Bortles. If Cousins were on this team this year, I have little doubt we'd have been the 1 or 2 seed.
Cousins has had 3 really good seasons as a starting QB. Even this year when they let all his receivers walk and Jordan Reed spent most of the season injured, he put up a much more impressive statistical season than Bortles has had. Cousins has absolutely earned whatever the size of the mega contract he's going to get this offseason. If he winds up getting tagged again it's because he just wants out of Washington altogether which may be the case based on things that were said last offseason when he was tagged. It won't be because Washington needs to see more. He's clearly a franchise guy by any objective measure. I don't know how any Jags fan (or the front office) can look at the entire picture of Bortles' career and not need to see more before locking him up. The only explanation is it's the exuberance of where we are right now, playing in an AFC title game.
You really have to dig deep cherry picking stats and specific seasons as Cousins not being the full time starter to make Blake's stats look better than Cousins'. That whole exercise should tell you everything you need to know about Cousins right there. Blake may well play himself into being here long term and have the front office not give a 2nd thought about pursuing Cousins or anyone else, but any rational fan needs to see more before the long term deal makes sense and we already have him here next year regardless of what happens unless the front office chooses to part ways with him. And we have him here the year after if need be with the tag. If the team identifies a guy as a franchise QB, they will have no problem paying him handsomely. You don't identify a guy as "the guy" and pay him as such based on a few games though, especially when you already have him under contract for further evaluation. The 5th year option was designed for this specific scenario.
(01-19-2018, 01:18 PM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 12:52 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure Cousins is a guaranteed upgrade. In his 25 and 26 year old seasons he threw for 14 touchdowns and 16 interceptions with a QB rating of 74.3. Even this season (29 years old) his Total QBR was lower than Bortles. 0-2 in the playoffs with a rating lower than Bortles. Bortles is also without a #1 receiver and or a decent tight end. Could Cousins turn out better than Bortles going forward? Maybe, but it is far from a certainty. People get on Bortles for turning it over. His career INT % is 2.9. Kirk Cousins at age 26 had a career 4.7% INT %.
People on this board will say ANY QB is an upgrade. Tebow, Kaepernick, Cousins, Joe Nameth.....they don't have a clue.
Bortles career path is better than any QB the Jags can acquire.
(01-19-2018, 12:54 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]This is just wrong. Sure there were always some "Never Bortles" type folks...
But for his first 3 seasons, most people bent over backwards to give Bortles the benefit of the doubt.
Including many of the people that decided in the preseason this year Bortles wasn't "the guy".
But whatever... keep banging that drum for ya boy.
No they didn't. You're out of your mind.
When Bortles was 2nd in the NFL in TD passes at age 23 (been done once ever in history of NFL at that age), with no help around him (Luke Joeckel and Toby Gerhart hahaha) there were people wondering why he ONLY performs in garbage time when the defense was #32 in scoring defense. It's embarrassing how ignorant fans are here. The entire team was ALWAYS in garbage time because they were giving up 51 points to Mariota and 36 to EJ Manuel.
Plenty of crow to eat for everyone.
You're a damn liar.
First, you showed up in October of 2015.
Bortles rookie year was 2014, everyone loved him because he showed he could move the offense Henne could not.
In 2015, Bortles' stats exploded. TDs were way up but so were INTs, but still everyone loved that he was taking his next step. Only the raunchiest of detractors were using the "garbage time" excuse at this point.
Many many many posters on here figured we had found our guy and he was just gonna go up from there.
Then 2016 happened. This is the year he started losing supporters. The fire everybody train started up. Gus, Dave, Bortles were all targets...
But even in 2016 there were some of us still saying "give the guy time, the team around him isn't quite there"
There's no crow needed... cuz Bortles still hasn't shown that he can be a game changing QB (outside of in a negative way with INTs).
He HAS shown that with the right cast and a solid game plan he can manage the hell out of a game and make a couple throws to put up points. Perhaps he continues to improve, which is most people's hope.
You've claimed the entire time that he's some franchise changing QB. He's not. I don't disagree he was dealt a [BLEEP] roster... but your love fest with the guy is borderline unhealthy.
And your claims that everyone always bagged on him are way way off base.
You're delusional.
You should probably seek help.
(01-18-2018, 08:07 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 08:06 PM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ]You're out of your MIND if you think the Jags will try to upgrade the QB position early in the draft. 4th-7th round at BEST for Henne's spot.
If they don't, they're fools.
Coughlin is no fool. He’ll pursue a qb in the middle rounds to groom for the future. He won’t burn a high pick.
(01-19-2018, 01:47 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 12:52 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure Cousins is a guaranteed upgrade. In his 25 and 26 year old seasons he threw for 14 touchdowns and 16 interceptions with a QB rating of 74.3. Even this season (29 years old) his Total QBR was lower than Bortles. 0-2 in the playoffs with a rating lower than Bortles. Bortles is also without a #1 receiver and or a decent tight end. Could Cousins turn out better than Bortles going forward? Maybe, but it is far from a certainty. People get on Bortles for turning it over. His career INT % is 2.9. Kirk Cousins at age 26 had a career 4.7% INT %.
He started 3 and 5 games respectively in his age 25 and 26 seasons because they hadn't committed to him with RG3 in the way until the following season which was his 4th season and a contract year. They didn't have a 5th year option because he wasn't a 1st rounder. They've since tagged him twice because they needed to see more before committing to him. I'm fine with throwing out Bortles' prior seasons, but Cousins is a prime example why Bortles shouldn't and probably won't get the long term deal yet, unless he is the reason we go on and win the Super Bowl and even then the smart thing to do is probably let it play out next year under the option. He's played well and been the reason we've won a few times this season, but the vast majority of Jaguars victories this season were defensively led victories that a lot of QBs could've coasted to victory with. Most of our losses, however, were due to the offense and Bortles. If Cousins were on this team this year, I have little doubt we'd have been the 1 or 2 seed.
Cousins has had 3 really good seasons as a starting QB. Even this year when they let all his receivers walk and Jordan Reed spent most of the season injured, he put up a much more impressive statistical season than Bortles has had. Cousins has absolutely earned whatever the size of the mega contract he's going to get this offseason. If he winds up getting tagged again it's because he just wants out of Washington altogether which may be the case based on things that were said last offseason when he was tagged. It won't be because Washington needs to see more. He's clearly a franchise guy by any objective measure. I don't know how any Jags fan (or the front office) can look at the entire picture of Bortles' career and not need to see more before locking him up. The only explanation is it's the exuberance of where we are right now, playing in an AFC title game.
You really have to dig deep cherry picking stats and specific seasons as Cousins not being the full time starter to make Blake's stats look better than Cousins'. That whole exercise should tell you everything you need to know about Cousins right there. Blake may well play himself into being here long term and have the front office not give a 2nd thought about pursuing Cousins or anyone else, but any rational fan needs to see more before the long term deal makes sense and we already have him here next year regardless of what happens unless the front office chooses to part ways with him. And we have him here the year after if need be with the tag. If the team identifies a guy as a franchise QB, they will have no problem paying him handsomely. You don't identify a guy as "the guy" and pay him as such based on a few games though, especially when you already have him under contract for further evaluation. The 5th year option was designed for this specific scenario.
Cousins isn't even an option in Jacksonville. WAY TOO MUCH money. Not a chance.
It's a bidding war between Denver and NY Jets. Caldwell/Coughlin is saving their money for the defensive guys.
No use even bringing Cousins up.
(01-19-2018, 02:20 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2018, 01:18 PM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ] People on this board will say ANY QB is an upgrade. Tebow, Kaepernick, Cousins, Joe Nameth.....they don't have a clue.
Bortles career path is better than any QB the Jags can acquire.
No they didn't. You're out of your mind.
When Bortles was 2nd in the NFL in TD passes at age 23 (been done once ever in history of NFL at that age), with no help around him (Luke Joeckel and Toby Gerhart hahaha) there were people wondering why he ONLY performs in garbage time when the defense was #32 in scoring defense. It's embarrassing how ignorant fans are here. The entire team was ALWAYS in garbage time because they were giving up 51 points to Mariota and 36 to EJ Manuel.
Plenty of crow to eat for everyone.
You're a damn liar.
First, you showed up in October of 2015.
Bortles rookie year was 2014, everyone loved him because he showed he could move the offense Henne could not.
In 2015, Bortles' stats exploded. TDs were way up but so were INTs, but still everyone loved that he was taking his next step. Only the raunchiest of detractors were using the "garbage time" excuse at this point.
Many many many posters on here figured we had found our guy and he was just gonna go up from there.
Then 2016 happened. This is the year he started losing supporters. The fire everybody train started up. Gus, Dave, Bortles were all targets...
But even in 2016 there were some of us still saying "give the guy time, the team around him isn't quite there"
There's no crow needed... cuz Bortles still hasn't shown that he can be a game changing QB (outside of in a negative way with INTs).
He HAS shown that with the right cast and a solid game plan he can manage the hell out of a game and make a couple throws to put up points. Perhaps he continues to improve, which is most people's hope.
You've claimed the entire time that he's some franchise changing QB. He's not. I don't disagree he was dealt a [BLEEP] roster... but your love fest with the guy is borderline unhealthy.
And your claims that everyone always bagged on him are way way off base.
You're delusional.
You should probably seek help.
Everyone hated him in J-ville.
While at UCF....My favorite Blake story was told by a backup QB that played with him and ended up working for Athletics or the GKC. Basically said that during Blake's very first practice Blake threw a ball in the ground or threw an INT or some kind of screw up. George O'Leary got in his face and absolutely chewed him out in front of everyone, then told him to do it again. Blake turns and winks at the other QBs with a little smirk on his face, and proceeds to throw a perfect ball on his next attempt. He said that was when he knew Blake would be good, because most freshman would have been completely rattled.
(01-19-2018, 11:39 AM)spacecoastjag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2018, 07:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]He did not get us to the AFC Championship. The entire team got us here. Largely, thanks to the defense. One QB, especially an erratic one should not take so much credit for where we are. Just look at the Buffalo game. Bortles was bailed out by our defense. This past week, Blake performed much better and although the defense gave up more points than usual. If you look at the long TD strikes by Pittsburgh though, the coverage was spot on. Roethlisberger just threw it to the perfect spot and his receivers made great catches. Football is a team game and the entire team should be congratulated for getting us here. QB's normally get the bulk of the credit, but in this case, the offense and defense are equally as important. So far, when one side has a bad week, the other side performs great and it saves us.
Many Jags fans were critics the last 4 years.......... When the o line was bad and Luke Jockel, it was Bortles fault. When the coaching and Gus Bradley was bad, it was Bortles fault. When the running game was bad and Toby Gerhart, it was Bortles fault. When the scoring defense was bad #26-#32 for 3 years, it was Bortles fault.
This year, without Allen Robinson, without Marquise Lee 3 games, Allen Hurns 7 games, Leonard Fournette 3 games (3-0 without him), without Dede Westbrook 8 games........Bortles has been a tough [BLEEP]. I think almost ANY other QB being drafted in that situation (Browns like situation/media pressure) would have wilted.
Jags are lucky to have him. Glad their fans and critics ate crow.
(01-18-2018, 09:36 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ]A Dilfer comparison, followed up by the garbage time argument. How original!!
What is garbage time? Another fairy tale from ignorant people. If garbage time was so easy, why isn't every QB throwing for 35 TDs a year?
Keep your pants on, I was defending him!