Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

While I agree with Vic, I remember him praising Gene Smith like no other.

(01-25-2018, 09:44 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Sign Bortles to a reasonable deal that brings his cap number way down from 19 million and sign a free agent or draft a young lion to challenge him.

Why in the world would Blake do that? He would get more than the 15 mil/yr Glennon got last year if he hits the open market.

You could easily let Bortles walk. No team will sign him except as a back up. I think he's better than people give him credit, but which team would make him a starter? More importantly, which team would pay him elite qb money? After he tests the market, I'd sign him to an incentive laden contract and try to bring in some competition via FA or the draft.

(01-25-2018, 09:49 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018, 09:44 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Sign Bortles to a reasonable deal that brings his cap number way down from 19 million and sign a free agent or draft a young lion to challenge him.

Why in the world would Blake do that? He would get more than the 15 mil/yr Glennon got last year if he hits the open market.

Maybe he would, but the team could at least try to  sign him to a deal that provides him with enough up front money and enough dummy years to make his cap number palatable in the near term if he'll go for it. Something like five years 75 million with 20 million up front signing bonus and ten million in salary over the first two years and most of the salary back loaded. Maybe 10-15-20 million per year over the last three.

Then if the team decides to move another direction in a couple of years they have only a small cap hit for the dead money.

(01-25-2018, 10:03 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe he would, but the team could at least try to  sign him to a deal that provides him with enough up front money and enough dummy years to make his cap number palatable in the near term if he'll go for it. Something like five years 75 million with 20 million up front signing bonus and ten million in salary over the first two years and most of the salary back loaded. Maybe 10-15-20 million per year over the last three.

Then if the team decides to move another direction in a couple of years they have only a small cap hit for the dead money.

We can try but you're basically wanting him to sign another rookie contract. Look at all of the QBs who are off their rookie contract all of them are making more than 15 mil. The only ones that aren't are the ancient one year contract types like McCown, Hoyer, and Cutler.

Glennon 15, Tyrod 15.2, Dalton 16, Smith 17, Bradford 18, Tannehill 19.2. And a lot of those were signed years ago and with cap inflation would be significantly more than that now. Thinking we could get Bortles to sign for significantly, or any, less than the 5th year option level long term is just a pipe dream.

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(01-25-2018, 09:54 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]You could easily let Bortles walk. No team will sign him except as a back up. I think he's better than people give him credit, but which team would make him a starter? More importantly, which team would pay him elite qb money? After he tests the market, I'd sign him to an incentive laden contract and try to bring in some competition via FA or the draft.

He wouldn't get the elite ~25+ mil like Stafford, Luck, Carr, etc just got but as I said above he would get as much or more than the Glennon/Tyrod/Bradford types.

(01-25-2018, 10:12 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018, 10:03 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe he would, but the team could at least try to  sign him to a deal that provides him with enough up front money and enough dummy years to make his cap number palatable in the near term if he'll go for it. Something like five years 75 million with 20 million up front signing bonus and ten million in salary over the first two years and most of the salary back loaded. Maybe 10-15-20 million per year over the last three.

Then if the team decides to move another direction in a couple of years they have only a small cap hit for the dead money.

We can try but you're basically wanting him to sign another rookie contract. Look at all of the QBs who are off their rookie contract all of them are making more than 15 mil. The only ones that aren't are the ancient one year contract types like McCown, Hoyer, and Cutler.

Glennon 15, Tyrod 15.2, Dalton 16, Smith 17, Bradford 18, Tannehill 19.2. And a lot of those were signed years ago and with cap inflation would be significantly more than that now. Thinking we could get Bortles to sign for significantly, or any, less than the 5th year option level long term is just a pipe dream.

Technically they could make it practically as large as they want with salary and incentives in the back end, but what really matters is the up front money, and he's essentially be guaranteed 25 million up front in bonus and salary and another five in year two which is more than the 19 million he can currently count on. And frankly I don't think he'll get the Glennon deal in free agency because I don't think any other team would value him as highly as the Jaguars will.

If he leaves Jax it'll likely be to sign a backup level deal elsewhere.

(01-25-2018, 09:48 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree with Vic, I remember him praising Gene Smith like no other.

I do remembering him saying Gene Smith fixed the Jaguars receiver problems when he signed Torry Holt and drafted Mike Thomas, Jarrett Dillard, Zach Thomas and Tiquan Underwood in 2009.

Yeah, not so much.

(01-25-2018, 10:18 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018, 09:48 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree with Vic, I remember him praising Gene Smith like no other.

I do remembering him saying Gene Smith fixed the Jaguars receiver problems when he signed Torry Holt and drafted Mike Thomas, Jarrett Dillard, Zach Thomas and Tiquan Underwood in 2009.

Yeah, not so much.

Your talking about a preseason evaluation vs having 4 years of film on Bortles. Bit of a different scenario. Plus Vic is talking about knowing what Marrone thinks of Bortles, which I think we can all agree he (Marrone) doesn't seem to have much confidence in Blake when any other option is available (Fournette).

(01-25-2018, 10:30 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018, 10:18 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]I do remembering him saying Gene Smith fixed the Jaguars receiver problems when he signed Torry Holt and drafted Mike Thomas, Jarrett Dillard, Zach Thomas and Tiquan Underwood in 2009.

Yeah, not so much.

Your talking about a preseason evaluation vs having 4 years of film on Bortles. Bit of a different scenario. Plus Vic is talking about knowing what Marrone thinks of Bortles, which I think we can all agree he (Marrone) doesn't seem to have much confidence in Blake when any other option is available (Fournette).

Oh, I like Vic, and somewhat agree with his points regarding Bortles, but I'm not sure an upgrade will be available.

He was dead wrong about the 2009 draft, and should have known better to make such a declaration based on pics made in the 4th round or much later, a QB converted into a TE and an old receiver.

(01-25-2018, 10:18 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018, 09:48 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree with Vic, I remember him praising Gene Smith like no other.

I do remembering him saying Gene Smith fixed the Jaguars receiver problems when he signed Torry Holt and drafted Mike Thomas, Jarrett Dillard, Zach Thomas and Tiquan Underwood in 2009.

Yeah, not so much.

He literally praised every single move Gene made. I loved him as a writer, but ... as a talent evaluator ... he turned me off by his Smith praise.

(01-25-2018, 11:07 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018, 10:18 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]I do remembering him saying Gene Smith fixed the Jaguars receiver problems when he signed Torry Holt and drafted Mike Thomas, Jarrett Dillard, Zach Thomas and Tiquan Underwood in 2009.

Yeah, not so much.

He literally praised every single move Gene made. I loved him as a writer, but ... as a talent evaluator ... he turned me off by his Smith praise.

Vic may have been partially right actually.
Yeah you heard me. Intrigued? I may have to start a thread about my thoughts

If the team doesn't come out some time before free agency opens and verbally commit to Bortles, you can expect that to mean they're making a hard push for someone else who came available like Cousins or Brees or are making a trade for Smith. They'll have a couple of days prior to free agency opening to actually start talking and negotiating with whoever is available and they'll need to have it locked down and ready to submit right at the opening because Bortles $19 million guarantees once it does at 4:00 pm on March 14th. Those 2 days prior will be very interesting if the team hasn't verbally committed to Bortles at that point.

(01-25-2018, 08:24 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-25-2018, 07:29 PM)CAPTAIN Wrote: [ -> ]Why did he retire?

Vic is old, he was with the steelers for the entire steel curtain era, he has been at this over 40 years, you really think he should have to do more? Even tho he retired, but hes still a football guy thru and thru. The website is an act of love/appreciation.

I feel old for not having read his column since he left the Jags. I haven’t bothered to go to his website but if he can run his own column, he ought to get paid for it by the Jags and run their column.

It's honestly comedy how much stock you guys put into some writer that hasn't been around this team in how many years? Yet he knows what this staff thinks. LOL

There's a part of me that hopes Bortles leaves, signs else where and has success, while we suck for the next 10+ years because of it.

(01-25-2018, 06:21 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]Robert from Orlando, FL
Are the Jags back next year, or is this a 2007-like mirage?
These Jaguars aren't a snowman; they won't melt during the offseason. It's a young, talented roster on a team loaded with salary cap room. Quarterback is the issue. The Jags can remain a playoff contender without addressing quarterback, but I don't think they can go to the championship level without an upgrade. Hey, they were afraid to pass the ball with 55 seconds left in the first half. I saw it earlier in the season, too, when they were afraid to throw the ball off their own goal line in overtime against the Jets. They tried to play around the most important club in their bag all season, and that tells me all I need to know about Doug Marrone's opinion of his quarterback. You can't play that way in today's game and expect to win. Playing scared won't work.

https://www.askvic.us/

Don't know if you saw this, but I will beat Jaxson to the punch, lol.

I love Blake and appreciate what's he's done for the jaguars so far, but I agree with Vic completely.

When you're a one-trick pony, your opponent can focus on taking away your only trick. The Jaguars need a real passing game, not just one built on drags, delays, swings, screens and checkdowns. That's scheme stuff and it worked early but not late. Plays win early, players win late. The Jaguars need to upgrade their passing game talent.

That was the answer from later in that link that stuck with me since I, and others, have pointed out how little we really asked Blake to do. Virtually any other QB can do that. We either need to get a QB that is an upgrade, or sign a McCown/Hoyer type that made 5 mil and keep doing the same vanilla tiny aDOT YAC stuff.

19 mil for what Blake does is only an option if you are playing the offseason as scared as you played the 4th quarter of the Patriots game. Unfortunately my gut says we are going to play the offseason scared too.

You’d have to be blind to see they had no faith in Bortles throughout the year including that game. And plenty on here said that wasn’t the case. Literally no one goes to halftime with two timeouts with that much time on the clock except for this team. Right then I said we deserve to lose to this game because being scary doesn’t deserve to be rewarded. Even if we would’ve gotten nothing you still show your squad we’re fighting with everything we have. Instead the coach tucked his tail, ran to the locker room, and collapsed in the second half. All that goodwill Marrone built up with me went down the toilet on that decision that possibly cost us Super Bowl appearance.

The only thing I know for sure is that this is a very tough decision. There is a lot of truth on both sides.

If they do decide to pursue one of the big FAs then Bortles is gone for sure. We will need the cap money, and Lee, Hurns and Ivory would almost definitely also have to go too. In this scenario they better be 100 percent sure they can get their man and he will definitely be a significant upgrade. Personally, I don't think they go this route. It's a big gamble and this FO has shown a commitment to continuity. But if they are sure Bortles isn't the answer then I guess it makes sense.

Vic makes a solid point, clearly the team did not show complete faith in Blake in big situations this year. But there are also other factors that influenced that like the revolving cast of WRs and Oline, and the strength of our D. For me, Bortles showed enough improvement to warrant another year as starter.

My preferred option is still to bring back Blake for the 19mil (no need for a new contract) and draft a rookie in the first few rounds. That way we have a team that is already functioning at a playoff level and the potential for a clear long term upgrade at the most important position.

Only the Jag's brass know how they really feel about Blake. Even then it could be a case of differing opinions within the coaches and FO. It's gonna be an interesting offseason.

Bortles was a bad officiating crew away from a Superbowl.

(01-26-2018, 09:05 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Bortles was a bad officiating crew away from a Superbowl.

This is true, and true for all our players. It doesn't change how you evaluate them.

In an alternate universe that 4th down pass to Westbrook was missed by the defender, Westbrook caught it and took it in for a TD, Jags held on, Bortles finishes the game with 300 yds and 2tds against NE in the championship game and is off to the superbowl. Such fine margins in this game we love. 

(Writing that just made me sad again)