(01-26-2018, 09:17 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 09:05 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Bortles was a bad officiating crew away from a Superbowl.
This is true, and true for all our players. It doesn't change how you evaluate them.
In an alternate universe that 4th down pass to Westbrook was missed by the defender, Westbrook caught it and took it in for a TD, Jags held on, Bortles finishes the game with 300 yds and 2tds against NE in the championship game and is off to the superbowl. Such fine margins in this game we love.
(Writing that just made me sad again)
It was a decent pass - there was just PI with the guy literally climbing DeDe to get to it.
Asking Vic on opinions of the modern game is like asking Thomas Edison on the intricacies of writing computer code. His opinions were often not close to correct 10 years ago, much less today. He sucks.
(01-26-2018, 01:45 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]It's honestly comedy how much stock you guys put into some writer that hasn't been around this team in how many years? Yet he knows what this staff thinks. LOL
There's a part of me that hopes Bortles leaves, signs else where and has success, while we suck for the next 10+ years because of it.
(01-26-2018, 10:18 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Asking Vic on opinions of the modern game is like asking Thomas Edison on the intricacies of writing computer code. His opinions were often not close to correct 10 years ago, much less today. He sucks.
I don't need to agree with Vic, nor does he always have to be correct in his takes. He's a good writer with skills I appreciate, and a curmudgeon with whom I identify.
(01-26-2018, 11:34 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 01:45 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]It's honestly comedy how much stock you guys put into some writer that hasn't been around this team in how many years? Yet he knows what this staff thinks. LOL
There's a part of me that hopes Bortles leaves, signs else where and has success, while we suck for the next 10+ years because of it.
(01-26-2018, 10:18 AM)Jagwired Wrote: [ -> ]Asking Vic on opinions of the modern game is like asking Thomas Edison on the intricacies of writing computer code. His opinions were often not close to correct 10 years ago, much less today. He sucks.
I don't need to agree with Vic, nor does he always have to be correct in his takes. He's a good writer with skills I appreciate, and a curmudgeon with whom I identify.
^^ This. Thing is when you observe football for as long as he has you recognize trends and items that matter. Bill Belicheck called out the coaching staff as well. They said they were going to do everything they could to make Blake Bortles beat them. That has been the game plan all year long. Fortunately we have had a defense that has rewarded playing safe overall.
I am not sure BB5 has the ability to improve where we need him to be for sustained success. What is worse is that we have retained Henne as long as we have. The team has coddled his ego and gave him a path to keep the jobs. Going to be an interesting off season.
(01-25-2018, 09:44 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: why-not-both.jpg]](https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/52633046/why-not-both.jpg)
Sign Bortles to a reasonable deal that brings his cap number way down from 19 million and sign a free agent or draft a young lion to challenge him.
Because BB5 isn't going to command a cheap contract, no matter what these folks on here think.
(01-26-2018, 01:51 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2018, 09:44 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]
Sign Bortles to a reasonable deal that brings his cap number way down from 19 million and sign a free agent or draft a young lion to challenge him.
Because BB5 isn't going to command a cheap contract, no matter what these folks on here think.
$19 million puts Bortles just below the median for starting quarterbacks in terms of cap hit. Which is right about where he is in terms of skill and performance as well. I'd rather have him play on his option for a season than do a long term just to save a few million in the short term.
(01-25-2018, 06:31 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2018, 06:27 PM)HandsomeRob86 Wrote: [ -> ]I just read the rest, he still likes the Jags to say the least. I think anyone who enjoyed ask Vic back on jaguars.com will enjoy today's column. The Packers questions are funny, its like they have never had a losing season before.
My thanks isn't anything but respect. He is telling it like it is and was always a good fans voice. Johnny O can't hold Vic's jock. I get tired of the condescension and contempt that rolls from the O ster.
Condescension and contempt? I thought that was Vic's calling card. If you don't love the 1970s Steelers ...
Johnny O is just trying to be funny.
They have different styles. Both are allowed to be enjoyed.
If you can upgrade Bortles you do it but there aren't that many upgrades out there in FA. I don't know who will be available when we pick in the draft or if any of those QBs make sense. I don't like the idea of a rookie coming in and running things.
(01-26-2018, 03:22 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: [ -> ]If you can upgrade Bortles you do it but there aren't that many upgrades out there in FA. I don't know who will be available when we pick in the draft or if any of those QBs make sense. I don't like the idea of a rookie coming in and running things.
I don't think there is any way Coughlin/Marrone let a rookie anywhere near the first team offense, so I wouldn't worry about that.
When you tell your QB to take a knee with 55 seconds and two times out in the first half - you have a game manager. I agree - if you can find an improvement to that you have to do it.
(01-25-2018, 09:44 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]
Sign Bortles to a reasonable deal that brings his cap number way down from 19 million and sign a free agent or draft a young lion to challenge him.
Does Bortles have any reason to do that deal?
Also... doing that sort of deal negates any bringing in of spendy veteran QBs like Cousins I would think.
Not that I'd be against the idea of Bortles for 3 years 15 mil each year with a rookie getting drafted.
Cousins is allegedly going to be a transition tag so someone else can make their negotiation. We shall see how it pans out.
Vic, said Henne looked good in Miami and was going to be a quality starting QB....Give me a break
Vic was rarely ever correct about QB play.....
(01-26-2018, 03:42 PM)Adam2012 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 03:22 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: [ -> ]If you can upgrade Bortles you do it but there aren't that many upgrades out there in FA. I don't know who will be available when we pick in the draft or if any of those QBs make sense. I don't like the idea of a rookie coming in and running things.
I don't think there is any way Coughlin/Marrone let a rookie anywhere near the first team offense, so I wouldn't worry about that.
When you tell your QB to take a knee with 55 seconds and two times out in the first half - you have a game manager. I agree - if you can find an improvement to that you have to do it.
I disagree. You get the ball in the second half and are looking to make adjustments and Play shutdown defense like you have all year.
Cousins is a definitely upgrade over Bortles. The other QBs? Not so much.
While I do believe Bortles is a game-manager, I believe he has far more high-yardage games than most other game-managing QBs usually have. Taking a knee at 55 seconds is on the coaches, not Bortles's quality of play. Bortles was 13 of 15 going into the half and we completely abandoned that game plan. I'm all for getting Cousins at 25 mil. but I'm not digging the other options.
(01-26-2018, 04:08 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2018, 09:44 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]
Sign Bortles to a reasonable deal that brings his cap number way down from 19 million and sign a free agent or draft a young lion to challenge him.
Does Bortles have any reason to do that deal?
Also... doing that sort of deal negates any bringing in of spendy veteran QBs like Cousins I would think.
Not that I'd be against the idea of Bortles for 3 years 15 mil each year with a rookie getting drafted.
There would be a few reasons to do that but it doesn't matter because the team isn't allowed to negotiate the option I believe. They'd have to cut him first and
then sign a long term deal. But if you do that the all the other teams get to talk to him as well which means there is no way you get his cap figure down by any significant amount because there are plenty of teams around that wouldn't mind paying ~$19 million guaranteed for Bortles.
The only way the Jaguars move on for Bortles is if they can sign another QB in the two day tampering period prior to the start of the new league year. In all honesty, I'd keep Bortles under the option, use the remaining cap space to resign some of the young core players and to move money forward into 2018 if possible. This team has shown in can win games with Bortles under center including winning the division and playoff games as well.
(01-26-2018, 03:42 PM)Adam2012 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 03:22 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: [ -> ]If you can upgrade Bortles you do it but there aren't that many upgrades out there in FA. I don't know who will be available when we pick in the draft or if any of those QBs make sense. I don't like the idea of a rookie coming in and running things.
I don't think there is any way Coughlin/Marrone let a rookie anywhere near the first team offense, so I wouldn't worry about that.
When you tell your QB to take a knee with 55 seconds and two times out in the first half - you have a game manager. I agree - if you can find an improvement to that you have to do it.
I'm really not so sure that a game manager isn't exactly what Marrone and Coughlin want...They want an old school, smash mouth, run first, and control the clock offense which really doesn't require much more skill than what Bortles has to offer...You don't need a Tom Brady or Drew Breeze to run the kind of offense they want, you really just need better accuracy and decision making than Bortles lacks at times...More consistent "GOOD" Blake and less "What the [BLEEP] was that [BLEEP]" Blake...
(01-26-2018, 08:47 PM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ]I'm really not so sure that a game manager isn't exactly what Marrone and Coughlin want...They want an old school, smash mouth, run first, and control the clock offense which really doesn't require much more skill than what Bortles has to offer...You don't need a Tom Brady or Drew Breeze to run the kind of offense they want, you really just need better accuracy and decision making than Bortles lacks at times...More consistent "GOOD" Blake and less "What the [BLEEP] was that [BLEEP]" Blake...
If they really do simply want a game manager, then we sure as hell don't need to spend 19 mil for it. McCown or Hoyer can easily do what little we asked of Blake last year and they both made 5M or less.
(01-26-2018, 09:38 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 08:47 PM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ]I'm really not so sure that a game manager isn't exactly what Marrone and Coughlin want...They want an old school, smash mouth, run first, and control the clock offense which really doesn't require much more skill than what Bortles has to offer...You don't need a Tom Brady or Drew Breeze to run the kind of offense they want, you really just need better accuracy and decision making than Bortles lacks at times...More consistent "GOOD" Blake and less "What the [BLEEP] was that [BLEEP]" Blake...
If they really do simply want a game manager, then we sure as hell don't need to spend 19 mil for it. McCown or Hoyer can easily do what little we asked of Blake last year and they both made 5M or less.
all they would need is someone like David Garrard which is just about where Bortles fits in right now neither Mccown or Hoyer are at Bortles level
(01-26-2018, 10:21 PM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 09:38 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]If they really do simply want a game manager, then we sure as hell don't need to spend 19 mil for it. McCown or Hoyer can easily do what little we asked of Blake last year and they both made 5M or less.
all they would need is someone like David Garrard which is just about where Bortles fits in right now neither Mccown or Hoyer are at Bortles level
They can't run like Bortles, obviously, but they could absolutely throw drag after drag with a screen and dump off sprinkled in. They could also re-add some of the quick developing tight window stuff like slants that Bortles can't do.
Heck, McCown was even good in air yards last year with a receiving corps and oline that were worse than Bortles had. If we simply want a game manager there is very little evidence that McCown wouldn't be better (especially considering price)...except ya know, fandom bias.
(01-26-2018, 10:33 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 10:21 PM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ]all they would need is someone like David Garrard which is just about where Bortles fits in right now neither Mccown or Hoyer are at Bortles level
They can't run like Bortles, obviously, but they could absolutely throw drag after drag with a screen and dump off sprinkled in. They could also re-add some of the quick developing tight window stuff like slants that Bortles can't do.
Heck, McCown was even good in air yards last year with a receiving corps and oline that were worse than Bortles had. If we simply want a game manager there is very little evidence that McCown wouldn't be better (especially considering price)...except ya know, fandom bias.
Bortles isn't horrible, he's just too inconsistent...IDK if he loses focus sometimes or what his problem is, but I do believe if Caldwell and Coughlin thought there was a true upgrade out there, they would try or have tried to grab one...They won't pick up a stop gap one or 2 year plan QB, they want the long term answer and for the type of offense Marrone and Coughlin run, they don't need a high flying big time pass happy QB, they just need someone who can throw 15 yards or so accurately with the occasional down field throw
(01-26-2018, 10:33 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (01-26-2018, 10:21 PM)wrong_box Wrote: [ -> ]all they would need is someone like David Garrard which is just about where Bortles fits in right now neither Mccown or Hoyer are at Bortles level
They can't run like Bortles, obviously, but they could absolutely throw drag after drag with a screen and dump off sprinkled in. They could also re-add some of the quick developing tight window stuff like slants that Bortles can't do.
The reason we don't use slant and other short stuff is because the running game already brings the linebackers and safeties down towards the box. Having McCown or Hoyer at QB wouldn't change anything about that.