(03-08-2018, 07:48 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2018, 07:25 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]
I love the way you included highlights, a 247 link , a fansided link and a walterfootball link as evidence.
Well for one Kirk is not that good of an athlete at all and tested very poorly. Beckham on the other hand tested amazingly, particularly in agility. Now I don't think Kirk is quite as bad as his testing indicated but he's not in ODB's realm athletically. Kirk is relatively fast in a straight line but thats it. To put this into perspective , Kirk had a 20 yard shuttle time of 4.45 (5th percentile for WRs), Bortles had a shuttle time of 4.21. ODB had a time of 3.94 (96th percentile for WRs).
As a WR Kirk will be confined to a slot role with his size and inability to get off press at the point of attack. ODB on the other hand played outside much more in college and was able to be effective vs press and used an array of moves to beat his man at the line. Projected much better in the NFL at an outside role. He's now one of the most effective press beaters in the entire league. Kirk struggles massively with this.
ODB's big strength for a guy so agile is his ability to go up for contested catchs. He's able to get clean breaks off his route but if he's still being covered he's great at going up in the air and getting it. This is another area where Kirk struggles with. Its not a skillset thats expected of a smaller slot guy but its a noteworthy difference between ODB and Kirk.
They are lazily comped together by some because they were a similar size and both were kick returners. A much more accurate comp for Kirk is Danny Amendola. Strictly slot guys who are below average athletically but are smart route runners and great at sinking into zone. Very talented at making adjustments to their QB.
Says a Jags fan on the jags message board thats in the minority big time. I have seen a number of people say this and just watch the guy play, looks a lot like ODB out there. I dont see the the inability to get off press at the point of attack like you mention and to say he is relatively fast in a straight line but thats it is a joke. Not to mention the after the catch ability is rediculous. Odell can jump higher and a little more athletic but thats about it as prospects. Kirk is also much stronger than Odell which will help in the pros.
Here is something other than highlights, a 247 link, a fansided link, and a Walterfootball link. Start at 1:10
https://youtu.be/E1n1A73NiGQ?t=1m10s
In other words I wouldn't consider them strong evidence of anything at all.
I've watched him and don't think he plays like ODB for the reasons listed above. He isn't close to him athletically either as listed above.
Yeah his inability to get off press has shown up for the bones of 3 years and is the main reason he's projected as a slot. I'd be interested in what game you saw where he showed a consistent ability to get off press? What techniques do you see him win with in press?
Odell Beckham is a lot more athletic though. That's why he tested much better athletically and looks much more athletic on the field.
Watched the Voch video before. Agree with some, disagree with more.
What do you guy think about DJ Chark?
(03-09-2018, 04:49 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Why is LB so high? It's nearly as much as CB. Offhand, I would have guessed that LB would be around $12 mil and that CB would be $17 mil.[/b][/color]
Because guys like Von Miller, Chandler Jones, and Justin Houston are considered linebackers. They need to change it to make a difference between the pass rushing LB and off ball LBs.
(03-09-2018, 05:57 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]They should find a way to lump those guys with the DEs instead.
Plenty of the modern analysts have separated them into DL, EDGE, and LB by now it's time they do formally.
Presuming ARob gets big money somewhere and doesn't come crawling back to Caldwell, I'll project how I figure our WR position looks if we had to play with the current roster. Now keep in mind I feel that Dede is best as a slot WR and that Hurns should basically be their 4th WR able to sub in at any spot without missing a beat, but for that to happen we would need a new split-end taking over for #15. So, as it stands we're looking at...
x (#1WR, split-end): Dede, Hurns
z (#2WR, flanker): Cole, Strong (or Greene)
slot (#3 WR): Hurns, Mickens, Wynn?
Practice Squad: Lamar Atkins and/or Tavaun Smith
(03-09-2018, 03:24 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-05-2018, 10:30 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]Cap numbers have been set officially at 177.2 million. Cap space not looking as nice as once thought. Which is why we won’t tag ARob.
https://twitter.com/mike_e_kaye/status/9...3246317568
Looking at the numbers, we're basically $1.3 mil under the cap, but the incentives adjustments and carry-over from 2017 added $27.8 mil.
That just reinforces the point- there's a huge difference between being $27 million under because of rollovers, vs $27 million under the actual cap. Since we are actually up against the cap if we don't include rollover money, that means if use all the rollover money, and we keep the exact same players at the exact same salaries, then next year we would be $27 million OVER the cap. That's why we have to be very careful using rollover money, and probably don't want to use it all up.
I think average Joe Fan doesn't think forward enough. "We have $27 million, we can tag ARob, sign Colvin, get a free agent OG..." No, we can't unless we have a plan to cut a whole bunch of players next season to get back under the cap.
Some of you think a rookie can come over and immediately take over for ARob? How bad do you think ARob is?
No rookie in this draft is going to come in and do anything close to what ARob could do for this team. AJ Green is not in this draft.
We didn't have him at all last year and the team still did fine. If he's looking to get paid a king's ransom I'd rather WR be our weakest unit on the field.
(03-08-2018, 07:34 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Position … Tag Salary
QB … $23,189,000
RB … $11,866,000
WR …$15,982,000
TE … $9,846,000
OL …$14,077,000
DE … $17,143,000
DT … $13,939,000
LB … $14,961,000
CB … $14,975,000
S … $11,287,000
K/P … $4,939,000
Those are the tag numbers. The NFL says that WR is the third most important in the game. Dime a dozen...stop living in the past.
Tag numbers represent the top 3 positions averaged.
So because the top 3 WRs in the league are paid on average the 3rd best salary they are hard to find and you can only get them with high draft picks and should cap strap the team to keep one?
Interesting...
Antonio Brown was a 6th round pick