I love the way you included highlights, a 247 link , a fansided link and a walterfootball link as evidence.     

Well for one Kirk is not that good of an athlete at all and tested very poorly. Beckham on the other hand tested amazingly, particularly in agility.  Now I don't think Kirk is quite as bad as his testing indicated but he's not in ODB's realm athletically.  Kirk is relatively fast in a straight line but thats it. To put this into perspective , Kirk had a 20 yard shuttle time of 4.45 (5th percentile for WRs), Bortles had a shuttle time of 4.21. ODB had a time of 3.94  (96th percentile for WRs). 

As a WR Kirk will be confined to a slot role with his size and inability to get off press at the point of attack. ODB on the other hand played outside much more in college and was able to be effective vs press and used an array of moves to beat his man at the line. Projected much better in the NFL at an outside role.  He's now one of the most effective press beaters in the entire league. Kirk struggles massively with this. 

ODB's big strength for a guy so agile is his ability to go up for contested catchs. He's able to get clean breaks off his route but if he's still being covered he's great at going up in the air and getting it. This is another area where Kirk struggles with. Its not a skillset thats expected of a smaller slot guy but its a noteworthy difference between ODB and Kirk.   

They are lazily comped together by some because they were a similar size and both were kick returners.  A much more accurate comp for Kirk is Danny Amendola. Strictly slot guys who are below average athletically but are smart route runners and great at sinking into zone. Very talented at making adjustments to their QB.

Says a Jags fan on the jags message board thats in the minority big time. I have seen a number of people say this and just watch the guy play, looks a lot like ODB out there. I dont see the the inability to get off press at the point of attack like you mention and to say he is relatively fast in a straight line but thats it is a joke.  Not to mention the after the catch ability is rediculous. Odell can jump higher and a little more athletic  but thats about it as prospects. Kirk is also much stronger than Odell which will help in the pros. 

Here is something other than highlights, a 247 link, a fansided link, and a Walterfootball link.  Start at 1:10

https://youtu.be/E1n1A73NiGQ?t=1m10s

In other words I wouldn't consider them strong evidence of anything at all.   

I've watched him and don't think he plays like ODB for the reasons listed above. He isn't close to him athletically either as listed above.   

Yeah his inability to get off press has shown up for the bones of 3 years and is the main reason he's projected as a slot. I'd be interested in what game you saw where he showed a consistent ability to get off press?  What techniques do you see him win with in press?

Odell Beckham is a lot more athletic though. That's why he tested much better athletically and looks much more athletic on the field. 

Watched the Voch video before. Agree with some, disagree with more.

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What do you guy think about DJ Chark?

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What do you guy think about DJ Chark?

His last album was fire

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Cap numbers have been set officially at 177.2 million. Cap space not looking as nice as once thought. Which is why we won’t tag ARob.

https://twitter.com/mike_e_kaye/status/9...3246317568

Looking at the numbers, we're basically $1.3 mil under the cap, but the incentives adjustments and carry-over from 2017 added $27.8 mil. 

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'02

What do you guy think about DJ Chark?

I definintely have my eye on him as a possible #29 pick after his combine. My top guy at WR is Courtland Sutton, but he's not far behind.  I can see both of these guys coming in and immediately taking right over for ARob.

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'02

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/3/3/17...mbine-2018

James Washington is another guy to consider. I was tempted to overlook him when I saw he was only 5-11, but he can jump.

Great quote by him from this article...
 

“Those 50/50 balls are just whoever wants them more. I feel like I want to more than the DB every time the ball’s in the air. I’m willing to go after it with a fight,”

Having said that, is he still winning these jump balls playing outside in the NFL? I still feel safer with a tall guy who can run like Sutton, Chark and St. Brown. 

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'02

Cap numbers have been set officially at 177.2 million. Cap space not looking as nice as once thought. Which is why we won’t tag ARob.

https://twitter.com/mike_e_kaye/status/9...3246317568

This doesn't account for the $27-$30M they can roll over from last year. They have about $47-$53M in actual cap space. with the roll over.

Just clarifying here that this is NOT true. Read my last post.

The $29 mil figure is accurate including the rollover. Let me know if you require more proof and I'll direct you to links. 

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'02

This doesn't account for the $27-$30M they can roll over from last year. They have about $47-$53M in actual cap space. with the roll over.

It actually does. I’ve cross referenced with spotrac and they have a similar number with the rollover included. 29 million is what we have to work with this year. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/cap/

I see you beat me to it.

I'll break it down even more...

• $177.2 mil = league salary cap
  
• $175.9 mil = Jaguars current spending
  
• $27.8 mil = Jaguars rollover and adjustments
  
• $29.1 mil = Jaguars cap space
  

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'02

We managed to win games without him. Would I like to see him back in Jacksonville? Sure. But if the front office feels confident with Hurns, Westbrook and Cole and they think they can retain Lee at a better price then so be it. The crazy thing is that some of the top receivers in this draft class are pretty big and rangy just like Robinson.

Could be looking at a guy like Courtland Sutton, St. Brown or maybe Cobb's Jr. out of Indiana. Personally I like Christian Kirk & Marcel Ateman the most out of this class though. You can probably get them a little bit later on. We'll see though.

Cobb and Ateman had rather average combine numbers which probably drop them, but either would make for an intriguing later round pick.

Kirk is a guy I see many here clamoring for, but at 5'10" I see him as more of a slot WR and not really taking over for ARob. He's even talked about playing in the slot.

I'd be ok with Sutton or St. Brown at #29, although I don't think Sutton will actually make it there whereas St. Brown might be there for us in round two.

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'02

Not that much different at all.  Both smaller compacted guys that can take any pass to the house at anytime.  Both have sticky hands, great route runners, excellent speed, can make the highlight catches.  Kirk is much stonger than ODB, Beckham is a little more athletcic, and speed about the same. He looks a lot like him imo.  You are in the minority saying worst comparison and very different players.

Look at the comments, not sure how you are one of the only ones that dont see it. What are so different between the 2 that make them very different players?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Dqo0ZH7pM&t=119s

https://247sports.com/nfl/philadelphia-e...-115389873

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018CKirk.php

https://thelandryhat.com/2018/01/22/dall...tian-kirk/

I love the way you included highlights, a 247 link , a fansided link and a walterfootball link as evidence.     

Well for one Kirk is not that good of an athlete at all and tested very poorly. Beckham on the other hand tested amazingly, particularly in agility.  Now I don't think Kirk is quite as bad as his testing indicated but he's not in ODB's realm athletically.  Kirk is relatively fast in a straight line but thats it. To put this into perspective , Kirk had a 20 yard shuttle time of 4.45 (5th percentile for WRs), Bortles had a shuttle time of 4.21. ODB had a time of 3.94  (96th percentile for WRs). 

As a WR Kirk will be confined to a slot role with his size and inability to get off press at the point of attack. ODB on the other hand played outside much more in college and was able to be effective vs press and used an array of moves to beat his man at the line. Projected much better in the NFL at an outside role.  He's now one of the most effective press beaters in the entire league. Kirk struggles massively with this. 

ODB's big strength for a guy so agile is his ability to go up for contested catchs. He's able to get clean breaks off his route but if he's still being covered he's great at going up in the air and getting it. This is another area where Kirk struggles with. Its not a skillset thats expected of a smaller slot guy but its a noteworthy difference between ODB and Kirk.   

They are lazily comped together by some because they were a similar size and both were kick returners.  A much more accurate comp for Kirk is Danny Amendola. Strictly slot guys who are below average athletically but are smart route runners and great at sinking into zone. Very talented at making adjustments to their QB.

Totally agree. If there's anyone who compares to OBJ in this draft, I'm thinking it's James Washington.

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Position …  Tag Salary
QB … $23,189,000
RB … $11,866,000
WR …$15,982,000
TE … $9,846,000
OL …$14,077,000
DE … $17,143,000
DT … $13,939,000
LB … $14,961,000
CB … $14,975,000
S … $11,287,000
K/P … $4,939,000

Those are the tag numbers. The NFL says that WR is the third most important in the game. Dime a dozen...stop living in the past.

Interesting... they're a tad less than predicted. ARob's tag was projected to be something like $16.05 mil.

Why is LB so high? It's nearly as much as CB. Offhand, I would have guessed that LB would be around $12 mil and that CB would be $17 mil.

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'02

Why is LB so high? It's nearly as much as CB. Offhand, I would have guessed that LB would be around $12 mil and that CB would be $17 mil.[/b][/color]

Because guys like Von Miller, Chandler Jones, and Justin Houston are considered linebackers. They need to change it to make a difference between the pass rushing LB and off ball LBs.

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Why is LB so high? It's nearly as much as CB. Offhand, I would have guessed that LB would be around $12 mil and that CB would be $17 mil.[/b][/color]

Because guys like Von Miller, Chandler Jones, and Justin Houston are considered linebackers. They need to change it to make a difference between the pass rushing LB and off ball LBs.

They should find a way to lump those guys with the DEs instead.

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'02

They should find a way to lump those guys with the DEs instead.

Plenty of the modern analysts have separated them into DL, EDGE, and LB by now it's time they do formally.

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They should find a way to lump those guys with the DEs instead.

Plenty of the modern analysts have separated them into DL, EDGE, and LB by now it's time they do formally.

It's also time they separate G/C and OT.

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'02

Presuming ARob gets big money somewhere and doesn't come crawling back to Caldwell, I'll project how I figure our WR position looks if we had to play with the current roster. Now keep in mind I feel that Dede is best as a slot WR and that Hurns should basically be their 4th WR able to sub in at any spot without missing a beat, but for that to happen we would need a new split-end taking over for #15. So, as it stands we're looking at...

x (#1WR, split-end): Dede, Hurns
z (#2WR, flanker): Cole, Strong (or Greene)
slot (#3 WR): Hurns, Mickens, Wynn?

Practice Squad: Lamar Atkins and/or Tavaun Smith

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'02

Cap numbers have been set officially at 177.2 million. Cap space not looking as nice as once thought. Which is why we won’t tag ARob.

https://twitter.com/mike_e_kaye/status/9...3246317568

Looking at the numbers, we're basically $1.3 mil under the cap, but the incentives adjustments and carry-over from 2017 added $27.8 mil. 

That just reinforces the point- there's a huge difference between being $27 million under because of rollovers, vs $27 million under the actual cap.   Since we are actually up against the cap if we don't include rollover money, that means if use all the rollover money, and we keep the exact same players at the exact same salaries, then next year we would be $27 million OVER the cap.  That's why we have to be very careful using rollover money, and probably don't want to use it all up.  

I think average Joe Fan doesn't think forward enough.  "We have $27 million, we can tag ARob, sign Colvin, get a free agent OG..."  No, we can't unless we have a plan to cut a whole bunch of players next season to get back under the cap.

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Some of you think a rookie can come over and immediately take over for ARob? How bad do you think ARob is?

No rookie in this draft is going to come in and do anything close to what ARob could do for this team. AJ Green is not in this draft.

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We didn't have him at all last year and the team still did fine. If he's looking to get paid a king's ransom I'd rather WR be our weakest unit on the field.

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No pain, no gain.

Position …  Tag Salary
QB … $23,189,000
RB … $11,866,000
WR …$15,982,000
TE … $9,846,000
OL …$14,077,000
DE … $17,143,000
DT … $13,939,000
LB … $14,961,000
CB … $14,975,000
S … $11,287,000
K/P … $4,939,000

Those are the tag numbers. The NFL says that WR is the third most important in the game. Dime a dozen...stop living in the past.

Tag numbers represent the top 3 positions averaged.

So because the top 3 WRs in the league are paid on average the 3rd best salary they are hard to find and you can only get them with high draft picks and should cap strap the team to keep one?

Interesting...

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Antonio Brown was a 6th round pick

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