(10-21-2018, 10:21 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Questions for those who absolutely think Bortles needs to be replaced.
Assume the Jaguars maintain their middle of the pack standing throughout the rest of the year, and end up with a mid first round pick in the draft.
How would you address the QB position?
Let's assume the very elite passers will not be on the market (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, Mahomes, Goff, Ryan).
Does the team need a stud, franchise QB to succeed, or can this team win with a veteran QB who is good, not necessarily great?
What would be your strategy in acquiring this signal caller?
If you are talking about a vet, would you spend the $$ for one in free agency or trade for one
If you are going to spend for one in free agency. how much are you willing to spend? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to sacrifice to land that signal caller?
If you are willing to trade for the vet signal caller, how much are you willing to trade away to land him, and how much are you willing to spend to sign him? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to let walk?
If you are willing to draft the signal caller, are you content staying in the middle of the round to wait for the QB to fall to you, or would you find it necessary to trade up for one? If it's the latter, how much are you willing to surrender in terms of draft choice compensation to move up to get that player?
Would it matter if you felt it would take a year before the rookie passer is ready to play (Mahomes, Goff)?
If the Jags are drafting 15-20 they'll be in position for a QB like Grier or Lock (Herbert and Finley are likely top 5-10 and perhaps they could move up to get one)
They could also snag a 2nd round guy but the talent in this years draft isnt deep at all. After about 4-5 QBs you get into some real projects.
Honestly I think they need to (and what I would do) is draft a guy this year. Find a guy you like and get him, move up a little, or stand pat at 15-20 and get him there.
I think all of the guys that are first round QBs this year have the talent to be good for the long term.
I would not dip into FA. I'd roll with Rookie and Bortles with Tanner Lee still on PS. OPEN competition. The best QB plays. And if the money rides pine, so be it (Bradford is riding pine in AZ, Glennon did it, it happens)
If Bortles is the better option you have your rookie developing. If Bortles magically turns into someone he isn't... then your worst case scenario is Bortles is allowing a rookie to truly develop like Rodgers did behind Favre.
That's what I'd do. It's the most fiscally responsible thing while not ignoring that Bortles needs to be upgraded but still allows him to keep (earn) his spot with his contract.
Future and now is planned for without sacrificing either.
(10-21-2018, 10:58 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Considering his contract and just how the NFL seems to go with some GMs holding onto some guys too long... I'd say there is a 10% chance he is here in 2 years. This % would go up in my opinion if no QB is drafted in 2019.
0% chance in 3 years.
And I'm one of the few that think there's a small possibility (25% ish) they cut ties in 2019 (with a highly drafted rookie and perhaps a "veteran" like Tyrod or Teddy) and just eat the dead money.
The cap situation isn't good for eating a bunch of dead money in 2019 from Bortles.
(10-21-2018, 11:05 AM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 10:58 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Considering his contract and just how the NFL seems to go with some GMs holding onto some guys too long... I'd say there is a 10% chance he is here in 2 years. This % would go up in my opinion if no QB is drafted in 2019.
0% chance in 3 years.
And I'm one of the few that think there's a small possibility (25% ish) they cut ties in 2019 (with a highly drafted rookie and perhaps a "veteran" like Tyrod or Teddy) and just eat the dead money.
The cap situation isn't good for eating a bunch of dead money in 2019 from Bortles.
I know... And it isn't likely. But if this team craps the bed... they may have to rethink a lot of the roster. It may not all be on the QB or one position or the other, so depending on the changes and direction, I just don't think it's totally out of the realm of possibilities.
(10-21-2018, 08:43 AM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 08:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]No. His inconsistency, has held us back for too long. I would have rather drafted a QB from the last draft, but since that's off the table, I think we must find a way to draft a franchise guy this coming draft. IMO, we must find a way get either Justin Herbert of Oregon, Dwayne Haskins of Ohio State or Drew Lock of Missouri.
Lock is meh. Not a huge Haskins fan either. Herbert is really the only one I'd want. I think he can be special.
Then be prepared to trade up to #1.
(10-21-2018, 11:12 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 08:43 AM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]Lock is meh. Not a huge Haskins fan either. Herbert is really the only one I'd want. I think he can be special.
Then be prepared to trade up to #1.
We can all have our favorites and think so and so is "Meh".... but us on the message board rarely get QB picks right.
Hell, most GMs can't get it right.
But if McVay and some of these coaches are showing you... if you're smart you can take a talented kid and make him successful in the NFL.
I think a lot can happen when you go from college to pros.
Goff looked lost and like trash under Jeff Fisher. Mahomes was a turnover machine in an air raid offense in college and Reid has him looking like a monster.
I think there is plenty of talent to be had.
And I think it would be silly to keep waiting around for the next Brady to just land in our lap.
When your QB is Bortles you can't think Lock is "meh" if he can be had at 20, you take that guy, imo. (Unless there is a better QB available)
Also I think the probability of trading up to top 5 for a QB won't happen. Herbert is almost certainly out of the question. He's as good as a G-Man.
(10-21-2018, 10:21 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Questions for those who absolutely think Bortles needs to be replaced.
Assume the Jaguars maintain their middle of the pack standing throughout the rest of the year, and end up with a mid first round pick in the draft.
How would you address the QB position?
Let's assume the very elite passers will not be on the market (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, Mahomes, Goff, Ryan).
Does the team need a stud, franchise QB to succeed, or can this team win with a veteran QB who is good, not necessarily great?
What would be your strategy in acquiring this signal caller?
If you are talking about a vet, would you spend the $$ for one in free agency or trade for one
If you are going to spend for one in free agency. how much are you willing to spend? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to sacrifice to land that signal caller?
If you are willing to trade for the vet signal caller, how much are you willing to trade away to land him, and how much are you willing to spend to sign him? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to let walk?
If you are willing to draft the signal caller, are you content staying in the middle of the round to wait for the QB to fall to you, or would you find it necessary to trade up for one? If it's the latter, how much are you willing to surrender in terms of draft choice compensation to move up to get that player?
Would it matter if you felt it would take a year before the rookie passer is ready to play (Mahomes, Goff)?
That's easy. I would do whatever I have to in order to trade up and draft a QB. I'd Offer a defensive player and multiple picks if we have to. One of our starting Safeties might be an option as trade bait or I might be inclined to part with Malik Jackson. Going without a franchise QB is not working. There are no veteran QB's that I would target. We have too much money invested in the defense and acquiring a really good veteran is just not a feasible option. If I could land Justin Herbert, I'd be willing to part with a defensive player, 2 first round picks and possibly a future 2nd and a mid rounder. I know that sounds like a lot, but in today's NFL, that's what it takes to trade up to #1 and that's probably what it would take to get ahead of the Giants and ensure landing Herbert. He is the closest thing to a really good franchise QB, that I see this year. As I said before, I also really like Haskins and Lock. I'd trade into the top 10 for either one of them. If we can't land any of those three, I probably have a nervous breakdown.
(10-21-2018, 11:17 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 11:12 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Then be prepared to trade up to #1.
We can all have our favorites and think so and so is "Meh".... but us on the message board rarely get QB picks right.
Hell, most GMs can't get it right.
But if McVay and some of these coaches are showing you... if you're smart you can take a talented kid and make him successful in the NFL.
I think a lot can happen when you go from college to pros.
Goff looked lost and like trash under Jeff Fisher. Mahomes was a turnover machine in an air raid offense in college and Reid has him looking like a monster.
I think there is plenty of talent to be had.
And I think it would be silly to keep waiting around for the next Brady to just land in our lap.
When your QB is Bortles you can't think Lock is "meh" if he can be had at 20, you take that guy, imo. (Unless there is a better QB available)
Also I think the probability of trading up to top 5 for a QB won't happen. Herbert is almost certainly out of the question. He's as good as a G-Man.
Why not? If the deal is right, I think it could happen. Would have to overpay? Most certainly, but what is overpaying when you could land a QB you view as a franchise guy for the next 10-15 years? I'm normally against giving up draft picks, but at this point, what good are they doing, when year after year, we are being held back by the lack of a consistent passing game? I for one, am in favor of trading whatever we have to, in order to get ahead of the Giants and select Herbert. Whether that be multiple first round picks and 2nd rounders or a player and multiple first round picks as well as other picks. If no deal can be reached, that's fine, but at least we tried. I still trade into the top 10 though and make sure we get one of the other top guys. It's time to find a reliable signal caller before we start losing defensive stars to free agency. The window is not going to stay open forever.
I don't know if he will finish this year as starting QB. Throwing into triple coverage and hitting his own player in the helmet for an int in the redzone are prime examples of Bortles being Bortles.
On one hand it would suck if "todays" Bortles was still here in 3 years, but I would think that if he is actually still the starting QB in 3 years its because he turned the corner and started to play well and consistent.
(10-21-2018, 11:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 11:17 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]We can all have our favorites and think so and so is "Meh".... but us on the message board rarely get QB picks right.
Hell, most GMs can't get it right.
But if McVay and some of these coaches are showing you... if you're smart you can take a talented kid and make him successful in the NFL.
I think a lot can happen when you go from college to pros.
Goff looked lost and like trash under Jeff Fisher. Mahomes was a turnover machine in an air raid offense in college and Reid has him looking like a monster.
I think there is plenty of talent to be had.
And I think it would be silly to keep waiting around for the next Brady to just land in our lap.
When your QB is Bortles you can't think Lock is "meh" if he can be had at 20, you take that guy, imo. (Unless there is a better QB available)
Also I think the probability of trading up to top 5 for a QB won't happen. Herbert is almost certainly out of the question. He's as good as a G-Man.
Why not? If the deal is right, I think it could happen. Would have to overpay? Most certainly, but what is overpaying when you could land a QB you view as a franchise guy for the next 10-15 years? I'm normally against giving up draft picks, but at this point, what good are they doing, when year after year, we are being held back by the lack of a consistent passing game? I for one, am in favor of trading whatever we have to, in order to get ahead of the Giants and select Herbert. Whether that be multiple first round picks and 2nd rounders or a player and multiple first round picks as well as other picks. If no deal can be reached, that's fine, but at least we tried. I still trade into the top 10 though and make sure we get one of the other top guys. It's time to find a reliable signal caller before we start losing defensive stars to free agency. The window is not going to stay open forever.
Its funny that "not working" means 1st place in the division with a brutally injured roster.
(10-21-2018, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 11:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why not? If the deal is right, I think it could happen. Would have to overpay? Most certainly, but what is overpaying when you could land a QB you view as a franchise guy for the next 10-15 years? I'm normally against giving up draft picks, but at this point, what good are they doing, when year after year, we are being held back by the lack of a consistent passing game? I for one, am in favor of trading whatever we have to, in order to get ahead of the Giants and select Herbert. Whether that be multiple first round picks and 2nd rounders or a player and multiple first round picks as well as other picks. If no deal can be reached, that's fine, but at least we tried. I still trade into the top 10 though and make sure we get one of the other top guys. It's time to find a reliable signal caller before we start losing defensive stars to free agency. The window is not going to stay open forever.
Its funny that "not working" means 1st place in the division with a brutally injured roster.
Is first place in the weakest division in the NFL, gonna get us a Superbowl though? Championships are all I care about at this point. We have the roster to win a Superbowl, minus the QB (if we avoid major injuries.) It's time to quit ignoring the obvious. Draft a QB and bring in some viable depth on the O-Line, so when injuries do happen, we're not just putting in turnstiles.
(10-21-2018, 12:46 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Its funny that "not working" means 1st place in the division with a brutally injured roster.
Is first place in the weakest division in the NFL, gonna get us a Superbowl though? Championships are all I care about at this point. We have the roster to win a Superbowl, minus the QB (if we avoid major injuries.) It's time to quit ignoring the obvious. Draft a QB and bring in some viable depth on the O-Line, so when injuries do happen, we're not just putting in turnstiles.
Yes, it just might. And if we win the superb owl you and the other anti-BB5 crowd will still be on this soapbox. At this moment the most recent results are that he had this team 5 minutes from the Super Bowl and in 1st place after 6 games this year. And yet, here we are.
Maybe here in 2019. Gone in 2020 for sure.
(10-21-2018, 04:26 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe here in 2019. Gone in 2020 for sure.
Seems like the only real way to play it...unless we do something crazy like the Texans did with Osweiler and give a team with a ton of cap space a draft pick to take him off our cap.
Bortles seems like a pretty reasonable guy. I think given the circumstances he might be willing to restructure and be the backup... I wouldn't mind having him around as a backup.
Some of you look real stupid right now
(10-22-2018, 10:16 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you look real stupid right now
Why, did Kessler Time work out or do those garbage time passes, 4 sacks, and 1 (almost 2) turnover still mean it's all BB5's fault? I'm not seeing a team that the QB can fix.
(10-21-2018, 11:12 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 08:43 AM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]Lock is meh. Not a huge Haskins fan either. Herbert is really the only one I'd want. I think he can be special.
Then be prepared to trade up to #1.
Good luck selling this to the board. If it's one thing I've learned about the people on this board over the years, as a whole, the posters here are categorically averse to trading up.
My question to you is what are you prepared to give up to get to that point?
Right now, we are not exactly flush with draft capital.
Would you be willing to trade future #1s and or #2s?
Would you be willing to trade off some of our defensive stars?
(10-21-2018, 10:21 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Questions for those who absolutely think Bortles needs to be replaced.
Assume the Jaguars maintain their middle of the pack standing throughout the rest of the year, and end up with a mid first round pick in the draft.
How would you address the QB position?
Let's assume the very elite passers will not be on the market (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, Mahomes, Goff, Ryan).
Does the team need a stud, franchise QB to succeed, or can this team win with a veteran QB who is good, not necessarily great?
What would be your strategy in acquiring this signal caller?
If you are talking about a vet, would you spend the $$ for one in free agency or trade for one
If you are going to spend for one in free agency. how much are you willing to spend? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to sacrifice to land that signal caller?
If you are willing to trade for the vet signal caller, how much are you willing to trade away to land him, and how much are you willing to spend to sign him? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to let walk?
If you are willing to draft the signal caller, are you content staying in the middle of the round to wait for the QB to fall to you, or would you find it necessary to trade up for one? If it's the latter, how much are you willing to surrender in terms of draft choice compensation to move up to get that player?
Would it matter if you felt it would take a year before the rookie passer is ready to play (Mahomes, Goff)?
I'd use a first round pick to draft a QB. I might even throw in a second first round pick for 2020 to move up and make sure I get the QB I want. Then I would sign a journeyman QB, like Ryan Fitzpartrick to play in 2019, while the rookie sits. Almost exactly like the Chiefs did it. On defense, I'd dump Dareus--he was brought here to stop the run, and that hasn't worked. I would probably let Ramsey go. I think he's a good player, but his mouth makes him a liability, IMO. I think we could do better than Parnell at RT, so I'd let him go. I think we let Church go, and replace him with Harrison. Next year in the draft, besides QB, I would focus on a TE, a RT, another DT.
I screwed that up. See my comments at the bottom of the gray area.
Also, if we could, I'd like to trade Fowler for a draft pick.
(10-22-2018, 10:44 AM)JagFanFirst Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 10:21 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Questions for those who absolutely think Bortles needs to be replaced.
Assume the Jaguars maintain their middle of the pack standing throughout the rest of the year, and end up with a mid first round pick in the draft.
How would you address the QB position?
Let's assume the very elite passers will not be on the market (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, Mahomes, Goff, Ryan).
Does the team need a stud, franchise QB to succeed, or can this team win with a veteran QB who is good, not necessarily great?
What would be your strategy in acquiring this signal caller?
If you are talking about a vet, would you spend the $$ for one in free agency or trade for one
If you are going to spend for one in free agency. how much are you willing to spend? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to sacrifice to land that signal caller?
If you are willing to trade for the vet signal caller, how much are you willing to trade away to land him, and how much are you willing to spend to sign him? What defensive starter(s) are you willing to let walk?
If you are willing to draft the signal caller, are you content staying in the middle of the round to wait for the QB to fall to you, or would you find it necessary to trade up for one? If it's the latter, how much are you willing to surrender in terms of draft choice compensation to move up to get that player?
Would it matter if you felt it would take a year before the rookie passer is ready to play (Mahomes, Goff)?
I'd use a first round pick to draft a QB. I might even throw in a second first round pick for 2020 to move up and make sure I get the QB I want. Then I would sign a journeyman QB, like Ryan Fitzpartrick to play in 2019, while the rookie sits. Almost exactly like the Chiefs did it. On defense, I'd dump Dareus--he was brought here to stop the run, and that hasn't worked. I would probably let Ramsey go. I think he's a good player, but his mouth makes him a liability, IMO. I think we could do better than Parnell at RT, so I'd let him go. I think we let Church go, and replace him with Harrison. Next year in the draft, besides QB, I would focus on a TE, a RT, another DT.
I screwed that up. See my comments at the bottom of the gray area.
Also, if we could, I'd like to trade Fowler for a draft pick.
I actually rather trade Ngakue.
Some of the players comments were about him imo. "not having the season they expected..."
I am starting to like Fowler and I see him getting pressure constantly in his limited playing time.
We can get more by trading Ngakue.