(10-22-2018, 10:27 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 11:12 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Then be prepared to trade up to #1.
Good luck selling this to the board. If it's one thing I've learned about the people on this board over the years, as a whole, the posters here are categorically averse to trading up.
My question to you is what are you prepared to give up to get to that point?
Right now, we are not exactly flush with draft capital.
Would you be willing to trade future #1s and or #2s?
Would you be willing to trade off some of our defensive stars?
I'm normally opposed to trading up as well, but I see no other alternative, so the answer to those two questions are yes and yes.
(10-22-2018, 03:26 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-22-2018, 10:27 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Good luck selling this to the board. If it's one thing I've learned about the people on this board over the years, as a whole, the posters here are categorically averse to trading up.
My question to you is what are you prepared to give up to get to that point?
Right now, we are not exactly flush with draft capital.
Would you be willing to trade future #1s and or #2s?
Would you be willing to trade off some of our defensive stars?
I'm normally opposed to trading up as well, but I see no other alternative, so the answer to those two questions are yes and yes.
They're going to get a QB in next years draft. It's pretty much a given. The real issue I have is if this FO can evaluate the QB position correctly. Chiefs waited for the guy they loved and got Mahomes. Texans waited for Watson. Browns took Mayfield. Smart teams can evaluate the QB position which is really hard to do. Can this Jags FO do that? No idea.
Feels so good seeing the jags go down hill so quick!! After all that talk about how you guys are so good after only one year lmao. Loved coming on this forum reading your guys opinions of other teams and talking crap about other players how luck is overrated and he is done and Houston sucks.. This is karma. Good luck in cap hell boys!
(10-21-2018, 11:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 11:17 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]We can all have our favorites and think so and so is "Meh".... but us on the message board rarely get QB picks right.
Hell, most GMs can't get it right.
But if McVay and some of these coaches are showing you... if you're smart you can take a talented kid and make him successful in the NFL.
I think a lot can happen when you go from college to pros.
Goff looked lost and like trash under Jeff Fisher. Mahomes was a turnover machine in an air raid offense in college and Reid has him looking like a monster.
I think there is plenty of talent to be had.
And I think it would be silly to keep waiting around for the next Brady to just land in our lap.
When your QB is Bortles you can't think Lock is "meh" if he can be had at 20, you take that guy, imo. (Unless there is a better QB available)
Also I think the probability of trading up to top 5 for a QB won't happen. Herbert is almost certainly out of the question. He's as good as a G-Man.
Why not? If the deal is right, I think it could happen. Would have to overpay? Most certainly, but what is overpaying when you could land a QB you view as a franchise guy for the next 10-15 years? I'm normally against giving up draft picks, but at this point, what good are they doing, when year after year, we are being held back by the lack of a consistent passing game? I for one, am in favor of trading whatever we have to, in order to get ahead of the Giants and select Herbert. Whether that be multiple first round picks and 2nd rounders or a player and multiple first round picks as well as other picks. If no deal can be reached, that's fine, but at least we tried. I still trade into the top 10 though and make sure we get one of the other top guys. It's time to find a reliable signal caller before we start losing defensive stars to free agency. The window is not going to stay open forever.
Well... we may not have to trade up too far if we continue down this trek.
That being said, if the NY Giants have the first overall pick, Herbert is gone right?
If not we could trade from like 8th or 10th up and probably not lose too much. If they like Herbert that much more than the next guy.
Me personally I like enough of the guys in this draft that I'd be comfortable sitting pat around 10 if we're picking that high.
If somehow we end up picking near 20 we may need to make a move like KC did to get Mahomes.
(10-21-2018, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 11:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why not? If the deal is right, I think it could happen. Would have to overpay? Most certainly, but what is overpaying when you could land a QB you view as a franchise guy for the next 10-15 years? I'm normally against giving up draft picks, but at this point, what good are they doing, when year after year, we are being held back by the lack of a consistent passing game? I for one, am in favor of trading whatever we have to, in order to get ahead of the Giants and select Herbert. Whether that be multiple first round picks and 2nd rounders or a player and multiple first round picks as well as other picks. If no deal can be reached, that's fine, but at least we tried. I still trade into the top 10 though and make sure we get one of the other top guys. It's time to find a reliable signal caller before we start losing defensive stars to free agency. The window is not going to stay open forever.
Its funny that "not working" means 1st place in the division with a brutally injured roster.
You're being disingenuous about the brutally injured roster.
4 out of 5 OL starters have played the majority of the season.
We were "better without Fournette" until we weren't.
The bad QB play is solely on the QB.
It isn't all on Bortles but surely you can not think that he is the answer long term and we should totally ignore the position for another season or two?
Even if we keep him, don't cut him, we should have a 1st round QB waiting. Just like KC did. If Bortles is good enough, the kid waits, if not, we move on.
Kessler is not the answer. Teddy is not the answer. Tyrod is not the answer...
But Bortles is not the answer.
Will a QB magically fix all of our other issues? No. Can he mask some? If he's good enough he can. The best ones do.
Also... now in 3rd place with clots improving and winning, so last in the worst division (again) is looking like a real possibility
(10-23-2018, 10:41 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 12:40 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Its funny that "not working" means 1st place in the division with a brutally injured roster.
You're being disingenuous about the brutally injured roster.
4 out of 5 OL starters have played the majority of the season.
We were "better without Fournette" until we weren't.
The bad QB play is solely on the QB.
It isn't all on Bortles but surely you can not think that he is the answer long term and we should totally ignore the position for another season or two?
Even if we keep him, don't cut him, we should have a 1st round QB waiting. Just like KC did. If Bortles is good enough, the kid waits, if not, we move on.
Kessler is not the answer. Teddy is not the answer. Tyrod is not the answer...
But Bortles is not the answer.
Will a QB magically fix all of our other issues? No. Can he mask some? If he's good enough he can. The best ones do.
Also... now in 3rd place with clots improving and winning, so last in the worst division (again) is looking like a real possibility
5 out of 5 OL starters are injured (ACL, Foot, Back, Triceps, Knee from left to right), they're playing on grit and spit. Lee, ASJ (and his 2 backups fwiw), LF27, Grant; this offense that was just ok to start with those guys is flat out bad without them. Bortles isn't the answer, but he's also not really the question. You think his play isn't somewhat based on the worst LT in football, a decimated running back corps, and the maddening stone hands of his top 3 receivers?. Sometimes you just lose a year to injury, that doesn't meant the window is closed or that we should be in full panic mode. If they go with a new QB next season fine, but don't give away the future trying to salvage an unsalvageable present. All the pissing and moaning about firing people, and draft busts, and quitting is such an overreaction, it's like no one has ever experienced adversity before. Unfulfilled expectations are poison for the soul.
(10-23-2018, 11:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]5 out of 5 OL starters are injured (ACL, Foot, Back, Triceps, Knee from left to right), they're playing on grit and spit. Lee, ASJ (and his 2 backups fwiw), LF27, Grant; this offense that was just ok to start with those guys is flat out bad without them. Bortles isn't the answer, but he's also not really the question. You think his play isn't somewhat based on the worst LT in football, a decimated running back corps, and the maddening stone hands of his top 3 receivers?. Sometimes you just lose a year to injury, that doesn't meant the window is closed or that we should be in full panic mode. If they go with a new QB next season fine, but don't give away the future trying to salvage an unsalvageable present. All the pissing and moaning about firing people, and draft busts, and quitting is such an overreaction, it's like no one has ever experienced adversity before. Unfulfilled expectations are poison for the soul.
Wish we had a "like" button. Adding reputation doesn't show approval of a post. That said, I couldn't "like" or agree more with this.
(10-23-2018, 11:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2018, 10:41 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]You're being disingenuous about the brutally injured roster.
4 out of 5 OL starters have played the majority of the season.
We were "better without Fournette" until we weren't.
The bad QB play is solely on the QB.
It isn't all on Bortles but surely you can not think that he is the answer long term and we should totally ignore the position for another season or two?
Even if we keep him, don't cut him, we should have a 1st round QB waiting. Just like KC did. If Bortles is good enough, the kid waits, if not, we move on.
Kessler is not the answer. Teddy is not the answer. Tyrod is not the answer...
But Bortles is not the answer.
Will a QB magically fix all of our other issues? No. Can he mask some? If he's good enough he can. The best ones do.
Also... now in 3rd place with clots improving and winning, so last in the worst division (again) is looking like a real possibility
5 out of 5 OL starters are injured (ACL, Foot, Back, Triceps, Knee from left to right), they're playing on grit and spit. Lee, ASJ (and his 2 backups fwiw), LF27, Grant; this offense that was just ok to start with those guys is flat out bad without them. Bortles isn't the answer, but he's also not really the question. You think his play isn't somewhat based on the worst LT in football, a decimated running back corps, and the maddening stone hands of his top 3 receivers?. Sometimes you just lose a year to injury, that doesn't meant the window is closed or that we should be in full panic mode. If they go with a new QB next season fine, but don't give away the future trying to salvage an unsalvageable present. All the pissing and moaning about firing people, and draft busts, and quitting is such an overreaction, it's like no one has ever experienced adversity before. Unfulfilled expectations are poison for the soul.
One of the better posts I've seen this week. Bravo sir.
(10-23-2018, 11:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2018, 10:41 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]You're being disingenuous about the brutally injured roster.
4 out of 5 OL starters have played the majority of the season.
We were "better without Fournette" until we weren't.
The bad QB play is solely on the QB.
It isn't all on Bortles but surely you can not think that he is the answer long term and we should totally ignore the position for another season or two?
Even if we keep him, don't cut him, we should have a 1st round QB waiting. Just like KC did. If Bortles is good enough, the kid waits, if not, we move on.
Kessler is not the answer. Teddy is not the answer. Tyrod is not the answer...
But Bortles is not the answer.
Will a QB magically fix all of our other issues? No. Can he mask some? If he's good enough he can. The best ones do.
Also... now in 3rd place with clots improving and winning, so last in the worst division (again) is looking like a real possibility
5 out of 5 OL starters are injured (ACL, Foot, Back, Triceps, Knee from left to right), they're playing on grit and spit. Lee, ASJ (and his 2 backups fwiw), LF27, Grant; this offense that was just ok to start with those guys is flat out bad without them. Bortles isn't the answer, but he's also not really the question. You think his play isn't somewhat based on the worst LT in football, a decimated running back corps, and the maddening stone hands of his top 3 receivers?. Sometimes you just lose a year to injury, that doesn't meant the window is closed or that we should be in full panic mode. If they go with a new QB next season fine, but don't give away the future trying to salvage an unsalvageable present. All the pissing and moaning about firing people, and draft busts, and quitting is such an overreaction, it's like no one has ever experienced adversity before. Unfulfilled expectations are poison for the soul.
Well I agree... we shouldn't give up too much for QB because we definitely need help at other areas.
About the OL though.... find me one team with a healthy Oline halfway thru the season.
Grant was a role player.
ASJ wasn't doing anything when he was here aside from some good blocking we probably could have had with old [BLEEP] Lewis. I'm not saying the injuries aren't a part of the problem. But I'd venture to say this offense struggles without a majority of these injuries to be honest. The OL just isn't playing great, the QB has been bad more often than not, even when given time. The WRs drop balls when they are on target. It's been a team struggle. But bad Bortles magnifies all the issues instead of a good QB masking SOME of them.
Also all the pissing and moaning is nothing new. So perhaps you're new? lol
This board has been volatile even when we were winning. Everyone is always trying to fire someone. But Bortles is a 5 year starter not playing well at the most important position. He's got to go.
But others do too. (Perhaps a little higher up than the roster)
(10-23-2018, 11:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2018, 10:41 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]You're being disingenuous about the brutally injured roster.
4 out of 5 OL starters have played the majority of the season.
We were "better without Fournette" until we weren't.
The bad QB play is solely on the QB.
It isn't all on Bortles but surely you can not think that he is the answer long term and we should totally ignore the position for another season or two?
Even if we keep him, don't cut him, we should have a 1st round QB waiting. Just like KC did. If Bortles is good enough, the kid waits, if not, we move on.
Kessler is not the answer. Teddy is not the answer. Tyrod is not the answer...
But Bortles is not the answer.
Will a QB magically fix all of our other issues? No. Can he mask some? If he's good enough he can. The best ones do.
Also... now in 3rd place with clots improving and winning, so last in the worst division (again) is looking like a real possibility
5 out of 5 OL starters are injured (ACL, Foot, Back, Triceps, Knee from left to right), they're playing on grit and spit. Lee, ASJ (and his 2 backups fwiw), LF27, Grant; this offense that was just ok to start with those guys is flat out bad without them. Bortles isn't the answer, but he's also not really the question. You think his play isn't somewhat based on the worst LT in football, a decimated running back corps, and the maddening stone hands of his top 3 receivers?. Sometimes you just lose a year to injury, that doesn't meant the window is closed or that we should be in full panic mode. If they go with a new QB next season fine, but don't give away the future trying to salvage an unsalvageable present. All the pissing and moaning about firing people, and draft busts, and quitting is such an overreaction, it's like no one has ever experienced adversity before. Unfulfilled expectations are poison for the soul.
Thank you, everything I've been trying to say, just articulated much better!
(10-23-2018, 12:19 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2018, 11:19 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]5 out of 5 OL starters are injured (ACL, Foot, Back, Triceps, Knee from left to right), they're playing on grit and spit. Lee, ASJ (and his 2 backups fwiw), LF27, Grant; this offense that was just ok to start with those guys is flat out bad without them. Bortles isn't the answer, but he's also not really the question. You think his play isn't somewhat based on the worst LT in football, a decimated running back corps, and the maddening stone hands of his top 3 receivers?. Sometimes you just lose a year to injury, that doesn't meant the window is closed or that we should be in full panic mode. If they go with a new QB next season fine, but don't give away the future trying to salvage an unsalvageable present. All the pissing and moaning about firing people, and draft busts, and quitting is such an overreaction, it's like no one has ever experienced adversity before. Unfulfilled expectations are poison for the soul.
Well I agree... we shouldn't give up too much for QB because we definitely need help at other areas.
About the OL though.... find me one team with a healthy Oline halfway thru the season.
Grant was a role player.
ASJ wasn't doing anything when he was here aside from some good blocking we probably could have had with old [BLEEP] Lewis. I'm not saying the injuries aren't a part of the problem. But I'd venture to say this offense struggles without a majority of these injuries to be honest. The OL just isn't playing great, the QB has been bad more often than not, even when given time. The WRs drop balls when they are on target. It's been a team struggle. But bad Bortles magnifies all the issues instead of a good QB masking SOME of them.
Also all the pissing and moaning is nothing new. So perhaps you're new? lol
This board has been volatile even when we were winning. Everyone is always trying to fire someone. But Bortles is a 5 year starter not playing well at the most important position. He's got to go.
But others do too. (Perhaps a little higher up than the roster)
Injuries aren't exclusive to this team, but we seem to have really been hurt in the best parts of our weakest area. I was really excited to see the 2 back sets with LF and Grant, I think that could've been special. ASJ had 11 catches in 2 games with 1 TD and another called back by penalty, he was rounding into a useful player. I'm mostly sad that we didn't get to see all these guys playing together this year, I really liked the ideas from the preseason and thought they would've been fine with our philosophy and defensive talent. If Bortles goes then he goes, but he's got the Quarterback's Libel more than this is actually his fault.
(10-23-2018, 10:35 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-21-2018, 11:37 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Why not? If the deal is right, I think it could happen. Would have to overpay? Most certainly, but what is overpaying when you could land a QB you view as a franchise guy for the next 10-15 years? I'm normally against giving up draft picks, but at this point, what good are they doing, when year after year, we are being held back by the lack of a consistent passing game? I for one, am in favor of trading whatever we have to, in order to get ahead of the Giants and select Herbert. Whether that be multiple first round picks and 2nd rounders or a player and multiple first round picks as well as other picks. If no deal can be reached, that's fine, but at least we tried. I still trade into the top 10 though and make sure we get one of the other top guys. It's time to find a reliable signal caller before we start losing defensive stars to free agency. The window is not going to stay open forever.
Well... we may not have to trade up too far if we continue down this trek.
That being said, if the NY Giants have the first overall pick, Herbert is gone right?
If not we could trade from like 8th or 10th up and probably not lose too much. If they like Herbert that much more than the next guy.
Me personally I like enough of the guys in this draft that I'd be comfortable sitting pat around 10 if we're picking that high.
If somehow we end up picking near 20 we may need to make a move like KC did to get Mahomes.
Agreed. If the Giants stay at #1, there is basically nothing we can do. Herbert will be gone. If we finish with a top 10 pick, (God forbid,) then I'd probably be satisfied to stand pat, as long as we're ahead of Denver and Miami. I believe both will be looking to draft QB's. I just wanna make sure we come away with either Herbert, Lock or Haskins. If only two of these guys declare, we're gonna have to make a move up. Hopefully, all 3 declare and our chances are increased. If only one of these guys declares and we can't get in front of the Giants, I trade out of round 1, acquire a 2020 first round pick and we'd have the ammo to probably get the first QB off the board in 2020. I'd hate to wait that long, but it's better than taking the wrong guy again.
Anyone else hoping the Broncos dump Kelly...
(10-23-2018, 02:45 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2018, 10:35 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Well... we may not have to trade up too far if we continue down this trek.
That being said, if the NY Giants have the first overall pick, Herbert is gone right?
If not we could trade from like 8th or 10th up and probably not lose too much. If they like Herbert that much more than the next guy.
Me personally I like enough of the guys in this draft that I'd be comfortable sitting pat around 10 if we're picking that high.
If somehow we end up picking near 20 we may need to make a move like KC did to get Mahomes.
Agreed. If the Giants stay at #1, there is basically nothing we can do. Herbert will be gone. If we finish with a top 10 pick, (God forbid,) then I'd probably be satisfied to stand pat, as long as we're ahead of Denver and Miami. I believe both will be looking to draft QB's. I just wanna make sure we come away with either Herbert, Lock or Haskins. If only two of these guys declare, we're gonna have to make a move up. Hopefully, all 3 declare and our chances are increased. If only one of these guys declares and we can't get in front of the Giants, I trade out of round 1, acquire a 2020 first round pick and we'd have the ammo to probably get the first QB off the board in 2020. I'd hate to wait that long, but it's better than taking the wrong guy again.
If all else fails... LOSE-A FOR TUA 2020!!
I couldn't figure out anything as great as Suck for Luck...
(10-23-2018, 02:47 PM)JagSwag Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone else hoping the Broncos dump Kelly...
Not really.
Was never impressed with him in college.
Thought he had some "head case" baggage...
and now trespassing... so..... nah
(10-23-2018, 03:29 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2018, 02:45 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. If the Giants stay at #1, there is basically nothing we can do. Herbert will be gone. If we finish with a top 10 pick, (God forbid,) then I'd probably be satisfied to stand pat, as long as we're ahead of Denver and Miami. I believe both will be looking to draft QB's. I just wanna make sure we come away with either Herbert, Lock or Haskins. If only two of these guys declare, we're gonna have to make a move up. Hopefully, all 3 declare and our chances are increased. If only one of these guys declares and we can't get in front of the Giants, I trade out of round 1, acquire a 2020 first round pick and we'd have the ammo to probably get the first QB off the board in 2020. I'd hate to wait that long, but it's better than taking the wrong guy again.
If all else fails... LOSE-A FOR TUA 2020!!
I couldn't figure out anything as great as Suck for Luck...
If we do have to wait until 2020, (which I hope we don't,) I would be down with that. Tua looks like a college version of Drew Brees. That kid can sling it! I'd have to learn how to say his last name though. Those Samoan names are tongue twisters!
The odds seem substantially against Blake Bortles being with the Jaguars in the 2020 season.
Blake Bortles was good enough for the Jaguars to get to the 2017 season AFC Championship Game and almost to the Super Bowl. Yet, Bortles hasn't demonstrated that he can help keep the Jaguars competitive enough with a number of key injuries on Offense. IMHO, too many favorable conditions are needed for Bortles to be a preferred starter in the long run.
(10-23-2018, 03:59 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]The odds seem substantially against Blake Bortles being with the Jaguars in the 2020 season.
Blake Bortles was good enough for the Jaguars to get to the 2017 season AFC Championship Game and almost to the Super Bowl. Yet, Bortles hasn't demonstrated that he can help keep the Jaguars competitive enough with a number of key injuries on Offense. IMHO, too many favorable conditions are needed for Bortles to be a preferred starter in the long run.
Yes. I think this will prove the back breaker for Bortles' tenure in Jax.
They'll not want to continue having to find ways to compensate for such requirements at the QB position and this year's injury situation is likely forcing them to come to terms with that.
(10-23-2018, 04:10 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-23-2018, 03:59 PM)D6 Wrote: [ -> ]The odds seem substantially against Blake Bortles being with the Jaguars in the 2020 season.
Blake Bortles was good enough for the Jaguars to get to the 2017 season AFC Championship Game and almost to the Super Bowl. Yet, Bortles hasn't demonstrated that he can help keep the Jaguars competitive enough with a number of key injuries on Offense. IMHO, too many favorable conditions are needed for Bortles to be a preferred starter in the long run.
Yes. I think this will prove the back breaker for Bortles' tenure in Jax.
They'll not want to continue having to find ways to compensate for such requirements at the QB position and this year's injury situation is likely forcing them to come to terms with that.
The two most pronounced tangible reasons why Blake Bortles' future in Jax is likely over no later than the 2020 season ( as it relates to the Jaguars current situation ), are the 3 consecutive games the Jaguars didn't score a point in the first half and Bortles' high turnover rate. Both are very difficult to overcome, even if the team's Defense was playing at a high level.