(12-17-2018, 06:08 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2018, 06:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Still a terrible comparison.
So far you're correct, the browns got a lot more value out of Richardson (thanks to the colts) than the Jaguars have gotten out of Fournette so far.
From a production standpoint they're strikingly close.
LOL
The Browns didn't have a playoff run during Richardson's stay in Cleveland. I'm surprised you still stand alone on this hill. It's ridiculous.
Like I said before. Richardson fell off a cliff of uselessness as an NFL player. Fournette hasn't done that and I don't think he will if he can stay healthy a bit more. Until LF can't earn a prominent role and produce - it's a really stupid comparison.
(12-17-2018, 06:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2018, 06:08 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]So far you're correct, the browns got a lot more value out of Richardson (thanks to the colts) than the Jaguars have gotten out of Fournette so far.
From a production standpoint they're strikingly close.
LOL
The Browns didn't have a playoff run during Richardson's stay in Cleveland. I'm surprised you still stand alone on this hill. It's ridiculous.
Like I said before. Richardson fell off a cliff of uselessness as an NFL player. Fournette hasn't done that and I don't think he will if he can stay healthy a bit more. Until LF can't earn a prominent role and produce - it's a really stupid comparison.
Are we talking the same Fournette? What did he have in the second half yesterday, one carry?
(12-17-2018, 06:22 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2018, 06:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
The Browns didn't have a playoff run during Richardson's stay in Cleveland. I'm surprised you still stand alone on this hill. It's ridiculous.
Like I said before. Richardson fell off a cliff of uselessness as an NFL player. Fournette hasn't done that and I don't think he will if he can stay healthy a bit more. Until LF can't earn a prominent role and produce - it's a really stupid comparison.
Are we talking the same Fournette? What did he have in the second half yesterday, one carry?
What does that have to do with the topic? Call me if he's not the starter in 2019.
McCaffrey or Cook would have been a better pick than LF at that spot. Both even with his injuries, are more explosive, better vision, same speed, etc. They should have never drafted a RB with that pick, but they drafted the wrong one with better options out there.
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4nette is a straight coughlin pick. dave would have went somewhere else
(12-17-2018, 04:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2018, 04:31 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I see the phrase "today's NFL" and other similar phrases that imply that the approach that the Jaguars are trying to take is "outdated". That's simply not the case. Many teams have won big games using the approach of having a good defense and a good running game ...
The issue I take with this is not that a "run-the-ball-and play-great-defense" strategy can't be a winning formula in the NFL today. It still can.
It's that such a strategy must be adapt along with the changes being mandated by the league. As rule change after rule change continue to be implemented to facilitate increases in passing offense, modern teams must be able to take advantage of what is being afforded them. Combine that with the trends in officiating (like the proliferation of non-calls against offensive holding that has come under public scrutiny) and teams can't just ignore what the league wants from an entertainment perspective.
That said - I think the Jags brass would very much like to incorporate enough of a downfield passing attack to accommodate these trends while still relying heavily on the run and great defense. They have simply failed to acquire the necessary talent to pull it off thus far.
Exactly. The approach is not to put up a bunch of points every week with a potent passing attack, it's more along the lines of keeping teams from stacking the box the way that they have.
Want to stop the run and stack the box? Then we'll burn you with the pass.
That's what this FO is attempting to build and is a winning formula. The missing piece(s)? A capable QB and WR's who can actually catch... even if the ball isn't perfect. They also need a O-Line that can protect a QB for more than 2 or 3 seconds.
The winning formula is a great defense, a strong running game and a serviceable pass offensive game. It's been the formula for years.
(12-17-2018, 04:31 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I see the phrase "today's NFL" and other similar phrases that imply that the approach that the Jaguars are trying to take is "outdated". That's simply not the case. Many teams have won big games using the approach of having a good defense and a good running game. Far too many people want to see high scoring games, blowouts, multiple deep passes and a lot of trick plays/schemes. If I wanted to watch that I would turn on just about any college game on Saturdays.
I would rather see a defensive shoot-out and a low scoring, competitive game than a high scoring ridiculous game on Sundays.
It's not that running and defense can't still be effective, it's that 21/12/22 heavy personnel offenses can't. If we spread it out and get players in space and then used that to run, like what the Bears do, then our running would be improved perhaps. I think Yeldon could be very good in that type of versatile offense. But that type of 11 heavy offense doesn't fit Fournette, so we're back at my main point...but with the players being the problem instead of the Xs and Os. Either way, Fournette isn't a fit IMO.
(12-17-2018, 08:25 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2018, 04:31 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]I see the phrase "today's NFL" and other similar phrases that imply that the approach that the Jaguars are trying to take is "outdated". That's simply not the case. Many teams have won big games using the approach of having a good defense and a good running game. Far too many people want to see high scoring games, blowouts, multiple deep passes and a lot of trick plays/schemes. If I wanted to watch that I would turn on just about any college game on Saturdays.
I would rather see a defensive shoot-out and a low scoring, competitive game than a high scoring ridiculous game on Sundays.
It's not that running and defense can't still be effective, it's that 21/12/22 heavy personnel offenses can't. If we spread it out and get players in space and then used that to run, like what the Bears do, then our running would be improved perhaps. I think Yeldon could be very good in that type of versatile offense. But that type of 11 heavy offense doesn't fit Fournette, so we're back at my main point...but with the players being the problem instead of the Xs and Os. Either way, Fournette isn't a fit IMO.
The Bears are a good template to follow. We need to get a space back in the mold of Cohen and spread teams out more, mix and match with him and Fournette depending on situation and game plan. Once we have a good lead start to use Fournette more to hammer away and eat clock, maybe he can spring a big run and ice the game. He shouldn't be the focal point of the offense if we want to have routine success.
Now you can likely use plenty of backs for that specific role but im just trying to see how we can make the most effective offense possible while still featuring Fournette because he's likely to be here (well when he's healthy) for another two seasons at least.
(12-17-2018, 07:27 PM)ramseyx20 Wrote: [ -> ]4nette is a straight coughlin pick. dave would have went somewhere else
Like Dave's track record in the first round is so great?
(12-17-2018, 02:34 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn’t say he is a Jerome Bettis. He reminds me of Ricky Williams.
Guys wasn’t riding Fournette last year when he waved that DB to come get some or when he busted lose for 190 yards rushing. Or how about rushing for over 1k while missing 3 games. He can wear a defense down over the course of a game if they will feed him the ball.
All of a sudden fans are saying Fournette is a bust. Geez.
Almost our entire oline is out with injuries, along with a backup QB. Of course teams are going to stack the box and force Cody Kessler to beat them. Lol some of you guys...
He is no where near as shifty as either of those guys. Fournette has no shift in him at all. If he had decent vision he has the talent to be good, but right now he isn't.
Way to early. I don't think he's played healthy yet this year. Last year he had over 1300 yards of offense in 13 games as a rookie. He's gotta improve on the YPC though and stay on the field. Someone once said that the best ability is availability.
(12-17-2018, 03:04 AM)haveaseat Wrote: [ -> ]This thread is so stupid and confirms you know nothing about football. Teams aren’t selling out when Fournette isnt on the field because they know he’s the only legitimate weapon we have. Y’all are like the same stupid fans from Buffalo who wanted Marshawn Lynche gone. We all know how that story goes.
Quote:The idiotic comment in this one is strong.
The guy averages less than 4 ypc and is constantly hurt. He sucks bottom line
He is hurt because he is our only damn piece of offense! Guys are rolling up on him and smashing him into the shadow realm the second he gets the ball. How stupid do you have to be to not realize this? When you play the Jaguars offense the gameplan is just to "stop Fournette". There is no wide receiver threat. No downfield passing. No anything to open up ANYTHING for him. Holy crap. Does anyone actually count how many bodies are in the box when Fournette is out there? AGAINST THIS O-LINE? People are so stupid here. Good GOD.
I feel bad for Fournette. If he was on the Saints, Texans, Rams, or Chiefs he'd be a GOD to their city right now. No one would be selling out on the run every play. People in Jacksonville don't realize one good player doesn't make it happen all themselves.
I can see that argument.
But if we're talking about people that shouldn't be here... Caldwell and Bortles ahead of him.
They really should have IR'ed Fournette this season and used that slot to grab a PS player for next year. OL, LB, another RB... anything, really.
(12-17-2018, 09:21 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2018, 07:27 PM)ramseyx20 Wrote: [ -> ]4nette is a straight coughlin pick. dave would have went somewhere else
Like Dave's track record in the first round is so great?
Dave's pattern in the 1st round is to take premium positions, even if they haven't worked out.
The problem with the whole offense is lack of quality offensive line depth. Aside from Robinson and linder this a terrible online and the difference last year was those two players were healthy. Gave blake good time for his slow wind up and opened holes for the running game.
(12-30-2018, 11:09 AM)Mdjagsfan1989 Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with the whole offense is lack of quality offensive line depth. Aside from Robinson and linder this a terrible online and the difference last year was those two players were healthy. Gave blake good time for his slow wind up and opened holes for the running game.
No team has "quality depth" past their 7th man.
Welp. He’s not playing today and finishes the year averaging 3.3 yards a carry. That’s 3rd worst in the NFL.
Fournette was drafted to be a bell cow work horse focal point of our offense and he plays in like 1/4 of the games and in most of those games he runs gimpy. He is a bust for what he was drafted for.
(12-30-2018, 12:53 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Welp. He’s not playing today and finishes the year averaging 3.3 yards a carry. That’s 3rd worst in the NFL.
Is there a stat for time or yards to first contact?
(12-30-2018, 01:05 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-30-2018, 12:53 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Welp. He’s not playing today and finishes the year averaging 3.3 yards a carry. That’s 3rd worst in the NFL.
Is there a stat for time or yards to first contact?
Or a stat for number of times a player has run directly into a pile when there were obvious holes just to either side?