Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Go after Foles and draft Haskins if he falls to #7. Trade up to the mid 1st and grab Kyler Murray and then go after Will Grier at the top of round 2

(01-17-2019, 05:20 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Go after Foles and draft Haskins if he falls to #7.  Trade up to the mid 1st and grab Kyler Murray and then go after Will Grier at the top of round 2

Haha! Yeah, we can corner the market!

(01-17-2019, 05:20 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Go after Foles and draft Haskins if he falls to #7.  Trade up to the mid 1st and grab Kyler Murray and then go after Will Grier at the top of round 2

Lol.  If it weren’t for the oline TE and WR, I’d be all over this idea.

(01-17-2019, 04:28 PM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]We failed over and over again with drafting QBs

That is very true. Unfortunately, we have also failed at several other positions:

Offensive line- Monroe and Joeckel

Wide receiver- Soward, Williams, Jones and Blackmon.

Defensive line- Harvey, Fowler and possibly Bryan


My point is that this team has been horrible historically with their 1st round picks. In 24 drafts, the only great picks were Boselli, Taylor and Ramsay. The current regime is batting 200 (1 for 5).
Bottom line is they need to do a much better job and definitely not reach for a player based on need. If Haskins is gone, there's a good chance Will Grier will still be there in round 2. If their scouts believe he has a good chance to succeed after sitting for as long as necessary, they should take him. If they're not crazy about any of the quarterbacks in this draft, they need to make sure they get one of the better free agents and use a mid-round draft pick on someone they feel can be developed like Stidham, Thorsen or Finley. If this plan fails, the current regime will be gone next year and hopefully they get one of the top guys in 2020.

The more tape and reports read about Haskins and Foles, I think this is the wrong question. There will never a consensus this off season on either Foles or Haskins becoming a "savior" or possibly future Pride of the Jaguars level QB. It is also just as rare for a QB to be acquired via FA and lead different franchises to the Super Bowl or to have a hyped/"can't miss" QB option in the draft that actually works out.

Both of these QB need playmaking weapons and a more solidified offensive line for the Jags to have any chance to make a Super Bowl run. I think the decision should be determined on how the Jags think they can build those pieces via FA and draft over the next 2 seasons. If they need the cap space more, then they should lean towards Haskins. If they value the draft opportunities to fill those spots, they should lean towards Foles.

If anything, it may be easier to build that offensive system/team around Foles because there is a better idea of what his strengths whereas Haskins will be somewhat of an unknown until he plays and possibly until he gets more experience.

Haskings is a gamble.

I rather take the mostly sure thing in Foles in that he is atleast a good QB.

(01-17-2019, 01:50 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-17-2019, 01:23 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Watson and Mahomes were a part of an apparent weak class.

Also... Tua and Fromm are can't miss prospects? The only QB that looks like a lock is Trevor Lawerence. I think Haskins will be a better pro than both Tua and Fromm. I put Haskins behind only Baker and Darnold from last year.

Watson and Mahomes at least played three years to enhance their play. Even without the ability of hindsight, I liked those guys coming out of college. This Haskins guy just completed his first year as a starter and I don't have the same feeling.

In my opinion Tua is overrated and strictly a product of coaching and outstanding personnel around him. Fromm will end up being more successful if/when either get drafted. Everyone knew Baker was going to be a baller if he could stow the attitude. From a talent standpoint, safe pick there. Darnold, I was never high on but showed room for growth because he played disciplined, albeit safe. I liked what I saw from him this year.

Haskins, I don't see the disciplined pocket passer. I don't see that gamer that can come from behind. I don't see a guy that can take hits and still stand tall. I don't see the "it" factor. It doesn't mean he can't fufill all of those and more but in my opinion there is too much risk chasing those unknowns. I think a lot of teams would feel better seeing him another year or two in college but reality is, he and his agent were smart to jump and enter a weak draft. Some team will bet the farm and I hope it isn't the Jags.


Wow! I haven't seen so much mularkey since a guy with that name was our OC.

Every single thing you you "don't see" is precisely what I do see when I watch Haskins play.

---

(01-17-2019, 01:43 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty generic analysis. Most college QBs "struggle Vs pressure" , most NFL QBs do too.  Haskins is bad Vs pressure atm but that's to be expected at this point.

As for reads you can only judge him on the scheme he runs but there are multiple examples in every game of him making multiple reads on NFL concepts, even if it's relatively easy scheme to get production out of, similar to Clemson's  or Oklahoma's.  The term "one read QB" is lazy and ignores the keys , presnap and post snap decisions *every* QB in spread/air raid schemes has to make.

He doesn't really scramble much either unless it's a last resort.

Call it what you will but what more can you use to analyze? His body of work is too minescule to garner any type of specifics other than those provided. That is the point in all of this. How can you be so sure as to bet your future on a guy that is this raw and unknown?

For me, I'm rather excited that he's managed to progress so much with such limited playing time. He may not have an extensive body of work, but it's plenty enough to get a good read on him. Really the only question I have is if he has the ability to nail deeper throws when the coverage is close, or if he requires a guy to be streaking wide open before he'll throw deep.

As far as struggling under pressure, I don't really see that either. Now his stats show a regression when he's under pressure, but that's typically the case of young qbs. That said, when I watch him I see someone with those eyes in the back of his head who can feel and avoid pressure rather effectively.

Draft QB's until you find one, unless a once in a generational talent comes up.

(01-17-2019, 06:49 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-17-2019, 01:50 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Watson and Mahomes at least played three years to enhance their play. Even without the ability of hindsight, I liked those guys coming out of college. This Haskins guy just completed his first year as a starter and I don't have the same feeling.

In my opinion Tua is overrated and strictly a product of coaching and outstanding personnel around him. Fromm will end up being more successful if/when either get drafted. Everyone knew Baker was going to be a baller if he could stow the attitude. From a talent standpoint, safe pick there. Darnold, I was never high on but showed room for growth because he played disciplined, albeit safe. I liked what I saw from him this year.

Haskins, I don't see the disciplined pocket passer. I don't see that gamer that can come from behind. I don't see a guy that can take hits and still stand tall. I don't see the "it" factor. It doesn't mean he can't fufill all of those and more but in my opinion there is too much risk chasing those unknowns. I think a lot of teams would feel better seeing him another year or two in college but reality is, he and his agent were smart to jump and enter a weak draft. Some team will bet the farm and I hope it isn't the Jags.


Wow! I haven't seen so much mularkey since a guy with that name was our OC.

Every single thing you you "don't see" is precisely what I do see when I watch Haskins play.

---

Call it what you will but what more can you use to analyze? His body of work is too minescule to garner any type of specifics other than those provided. That is the point in all of this. How can you be so sure as to bet your future on a guy that is this raw and unknown?

For me, I'm rather excited that he's managed to progress so much with such limited playing time. He may not have an extensive body of work, but it's plenty enough to get a good read on him. Really the only question I have is if he has the ability to nail deeper throws when the coverage is close, or if he requires a guy to be streaking wide open before he'll throw deep.

As far as struggling under pressure, I don't really see that either. Now his stats show a regression when he's under pressure, but that's typically the case of young qbs. That said, when I watch him I see someone with those eyes in the back of his head who can feel and avoid pressure rather effectively.

Even hitting open guys would be an improvement over what we have had here the last 8-10 years.

Simply not convinced either of them are special. Option 3 was my vote.

Yea lets just throw away at least $30m of cap space in 2019 on two average at best QBs (Bortles and Foles), when this team is already in the red as far as cap space goes in 2019..

It's either Bortles and a rookie, or a low priced stop gap Vet QB like Josh McCown and a rookie. Foles is gonna want to cash in and he's going to be looking for as much as he can possibly get.

This team needs to do whatever it takes to get Haskins.

(01-18-2019, 01:05 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea lets just throw away at least $30m of cap space in 2019 on two average at best QBs (Bortles and Foles), when this team is already in the red as far as cap space goes in 2019..

It's either Bortles and a rookie, or a low priced stop gap Vet QB like Josh McCown and a rookie. Foles is gonna want to cash in and he's going to be looking for as much as he can possibly get.

This team needs to do whatever it takes to get Haskins.

McCown was worse than Bortles last year. He would pull a Henne and force the coaching staffs hand to start the rookie QB earlier than should. Pretty much every "low priced stop gap Vet QB" would unless the entire contract is incentive based regarding playing time.

(01-18-2019, 02:33 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2019, 01:05 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea lets just throw away at least $30m of cap space in 2019 on two average at best QBs (Bortles and Foles), when this team is already in the red as far as cap space goes in 2019..

It's either Bortles and a rookie, or a low priced stop gap Vet QB like Josh McCown and a rookie. Foles is gonna want to cash in and he's going to be looking for as much as he can possibly get.

This team needs to do whatever it takes to get Haskins.

McCown was worse than Bortles last year. He would pull a Henne and force the coaching staffs hand to start the rookie QB earlier than should. Pretty much every "low priced stop gap Vet QB" would unless the entire contract is incentive based regarding playing time.

McCown had arguably his best season under our brand new OC.

Regardless though, he was just an example of the type of low priced Vet to go after. It's only a matter of time before the Rookie we draft this year takes over anyways. Which is why it's best to not waste another $20+million on top of the already $10-16+m we're paying Bortles.

Do not want Foles at all and definitely do not want to give away anything to move up in the draft.

(01-18-2019, 08:01 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Do not want Foles at all and definitely do not want to give away anything to move up in the draft.

Who's playing QB for you in 2019?

(01-18-2019, 09:03 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2019, 08:01 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Do not want Foles at all and definitely do not want to give away anything to move up in the draft.

Who's playing QB for you in 2019?

Botom line...not Foles or Haskins if I have to give away picks.  There are too many other holes to fill.

(01-18-2019, 09:16 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-18-2019, 09:03 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Who's playing QB for you in 2019?

Botom line...not Foles or Haskins if I have to give away picks.  There are too many other holes to fill.

It won't matter how many holes you fill with draft picks if you don't have a good enough QB.  

Look at all the teams who moved up to take their QB, I would say most are pretty happy now right? The Texans have lots of holes but they didn't matter much because they have their QB

(01-17-2019, 05:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Get Foles on a 2 year incentive based deal based on wins and TD's thrown and take another QB later on in the draft. Maybe Grier on day two or early RD3. Would rather see the 7th overall pick traded for more picks or they take a lineman to either bulk up the offensive side of the football or defensive side of the football again.

[pedant]
RD3 is still day 2
[/pedant]
 

Can't agree more - get the big uglies early, if they are there. If not, move back and get some added picks.

---

(01-17-2019, 05:20 PM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Go after Foles and draft Haskins if he falls to #7.  Trade up to the mid 1st and grab Kyler Murray and then go after Will Grier at the top of round 2

Can't hit a home run if you don't swing, right?

(01-18-2019, 01:05 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Yea lets just throw away at least $30m of cap space in 2019 on two average at best QBs (Bortles and Foles), when this team is already in the red as far as cap space goes in 2019..

It's either Bortles and a rookie, or a low priced stop gap Vet QB like Josh McCown and a rookie. Foles is gonna want to cash in and he's going to be looking for as much as he can possibly get.

This team needs to do whatever it takes to get Haskins.

I agree with the strategy if not the players. I'd take a hard look at Bridgewater and I wouldn't trade away the farm for Haskins. Although the sky's the limit in one sense, there's also a high risk factor there. If the cost is too high, I'd like to see them consider Daniel Jones. In a dream scenario, they could go OL in the 1st round and Jones somehow falls to them in the second round.

Bad year for UFA QBs.
Bad year for QBs in the Draft.
Bad year for Jags' Salary Cap Issues.

Bortles and move down to collect more draft picks. Take the best QB who fits wherever they pick in Rd 2 or 3.