(01-18-2019, 09:29 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 09:16 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Botom line...not Foles or Haskins if I have to give away picks. There are too many other holes to fill.
It won't matter how many holes you fill with draft picks if you don't have a good enough QB.
Look at all the teams who moved up to take their QB, I would say most are pretty happy now right? The Texans have lots of holes but they didn't matter much because they have their QB
You have your opinion, I have mine.
(01-18-2019, 10:03 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 09:29 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It won't matter how many holes you fill with draft picks if you don't have a good enough QB.
Look at all the teams who moved up to take their QB, I would say most are pretty happy now right? The Texans have lots of holes but they didn't matter much because they have their QB
You have your opinion, I have mine.
Of course, I'm just trying to see how yours makes sense for this year. QB is too crucial to skip on
(01-18-2019, 10:05 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 10:03 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]You have your opinion, I have mine.
Of course, I'm just trying to see how yours makes sense for this year. QB is too crucial to skip on
You know, there's more than just this year...right?
You're making it sound like Foles and Haskins are the
only two options. I don't think they are. I think Foles is overrated. He's going to get a boatload of money from somebody and I think he'll be an even bigger mistake than Cousins. And Haskins is more of an unknown than others in the draft with his small body of work. I'd be happy with a few of the other quarterbacks in the draft and as long as they legitimately think one is capable of becoming their starter (sooner than later), I wouldn't have
much of a problem rolling with Bortles as the 'placeholder'.
(01-18-2019, 09:29 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 09:16 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Botom line...not Foles or Haskins if I have to give away picks. There are too many other holes to fill.
It won't matter how many holes you fill with draft picks if you don't have a good enough QB.
Look at all the teams who moved up to take their QB, I would say most are pretty happy now right? The Texans have lots of holes but they didn't matter much because they have their QB
One could argue that they also have a more competent receiving core or at least a true #1 threat and move TEs. One could also argue that they have more agressive OCs and plan to QB strengths. Which one of these did the Jags possess for the entire season? Last year was not an anomaly and you could see it carry over into this season until our first string guys and playmakers started dropping like flies. I get the Bortles hate but he is not deserving of everything that went wrong and then receives no credit for the things that went right.
(01-18-2019, 10:16 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 09:29 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It won't matter how many holes you fill with draft picks if you don't have a good enough QB.
Look at all the teams who moved up to take their QB, I would say most are pretty happy now right? The Texans have lots of holes but they didn't matter much because they have their QB
One could argue that they also have a more competent receiving core or at least a true #1 threat and move TEs. One could also argue that they have more agressive OCs and plan to QB strengths. Which one of these did the Jags possess for the entire season? Last year was not an anomaly and you could see it carry over into this season until our first string guys and playmakers started dropping like flies. I get the Bortles hate but he is not deserving of everything that went wrong and then receives no credit for the things that went right.
Yes the Texans have competent receivers and a true #1 in Nuk. Much better than ours. They also have a bottom 5 Oline which Watson still managed to play really well behind..that's the point, when you have your QB the rest works itself out.
And I haven't seen a soul say Bortles was the only reason everything went wrong this year. We had mass amounts of injuries and dysfunction.
But at the end of the day, with better QB play we'd still have won at least 4 extra games. The QB position was the biggest issue this year, that's why we need to be aggressive in fixing it.
(01-18-2019, 10:14 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 10:05 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Of course, I'm just trying to see how yours makes sense for this year. QB is too crucial to skip on
You know, there's more than just this year...right?
You're making it sound like Foles and Haskins are the only two options. I don't think they are. I think Foles is overrated. He's going to get a boatload of money from somebody and I think he'll be an even bigger mistake than Cousins. And Haskins is more of an unknown than others in the draft with his small body of work. I'd be happy with a few of the other quarterbacks in the draft and as long as they legitimately think one is capable of becoming their starter (sooner than later), I wouldn't have much of a problem rolling with Bortles as the 'placeholder'.
No I don't have a problem with not wanting Foles.
Not wanting to move up in the draft and use some extra draft picks to fix the QB spot is the issue. Theres a pretty large gulf between Haskins and those "few of the other" QBs you can get later on in the draft. And the holes you mentioned don't matter much if you have your QB
(01-18-2019, 11:14 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 10:33 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]No I don't have a problem with not wanting Foles.
Not wanting to move up in the draft and use some extra draft picks to fix the QB spot is the issue. Theres a pretty large gulf between Haskins and those "few of the other" QBs you can get later on in the draft. And the holes you mentioned don't matter much if you have your QB
And that is your opinion. This is not a fact.
Of course it's his opinion. Why do you have to state that? Just like everything on this board is opinion.
(01-18-2019, 11:14 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 10:33 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]No I don't have a problem with not wanting Foles.
Not wanting to move up in the draft and use some extra draft picks to fix the QB spot is the issue. Theres a pretty large gulf between Haskins and those "few of the other" QBs you can get later on in the draft. And the holes you mentioned don't matter much if you have your QB
And that is your opinion. This is not a fact.
Yes that's an opinion. In the same way you not thinking Haskins is worth moving up for is an opinion. Our entire debate is opinion based.
My vote definitely goes to Haskins or Murray, but I wouldn't be against Foles if DeFilippo makes it clear he feels we can instantly be a good team with him. I guess I'd be a little disappointed if we don't land one of those three options.
(01-18-2019, 11:32 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]My vote definitely goes to Haskins or Murray, but I wouldn't be against Foles if DeFilippo makes it clear he feels we can instantly be a good team with him. I guess I'd be a little disappointed if we don't land one of those three options.
I'm with you on that. either get a guy you know is the future or someone who you know will make an immediate impact.
(01-18-2019, 11:47 AM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 11:32 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]My vote definitely goes to Haskins or Murray, but I wouldn't be against Foles if DeFilippo makes it clear he feels we can instantly be a good team with him. I guess I'd be a little disappointed if we don't land one of those three options.
I'm with you on that. either get a guy you know is the future or someone who you know will make an immediate impact.
It won't be hard to be better on offense than the Jags were last season. I don't think anyone is denying that the offense will be better with Foles next season. However, if the price tag is 20+ million, I'm passing on him. I think Haskins gives the Jags the best chance at consistently winning games. I think he can play right away and I think he will continue to get better.
(01-18-2019, 11:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 11:47 AM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]I'm with you on that. either get a guy you know is the future or someone who you know will make an immediate impact.
It won't be hard to be better on offense than the Jags were last season. I don't think anyone is denying that the offense will be better with Foles next season. However, if the price tag is 20+ million, I'm passing on him. I think Haskins gives the Jags the best chance at consistently winning games. I think he can play right away and I think he will continue to get better.
I agree that his demands will dictate a lot but as far as Haskins I think will come down to his draft stock as we get closer to draft day. I think we are going to have to lean on the draft to fill a lot of voids so if we have to mortgage a lot of our draft to get him, I'm not sure we will.
(01-18-2019, 11:54 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 09:48 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with the strategy if not the players. I'd take a hard look at Bridgewater and I wouldn't trade away the farm for Haskins. Although the sky's the limit in one sense, there's also a high risk factor there. If the cost is too high, I'd like to see them consider Daniel Jones. In a dream scenario, they could go OL in the 1st round and Jones somehow falls to them in the second round.
I don't even get the attraction to Bridgewater especially at his price. The two top FA QBs are Tyrod Taylor and Teddy. Think about it, and ask yourself if either is really that much better than Blake. If you think either is, you'll have to explain yourself, and even then, you need to ask yourself if the guy is truly worth more than $20 mil per year as I suspect they'll command as the top FAs. That's quite a lot of money to spend on additional garbage especially when we're already spending so much on Blake whether or not we keep him.
As for Foles, I'm leary of what he'll cost as well, but at least I'm confident in saying the guy is flat out better than Blake.
BTW, I wouldn't trade the farm for Haskins either, but in my mind trading the farm means moving up to a top-two pick. What I would do is trade away our 2nd and one of out 3rds in order to move up to #3 should the opportunity to get Haskins there arise.
I don't think they will need to trade the farm but do you think Houston or KC is regretting tarding a 1st rounder for their QBs? If you believe the QB is a franchise guy, you do what it takes to get them. Some on here and around the league think Haskins is that type of guy. Others don't.
Some people last year thought Mayfield was a 2nd or 3rd round talent. Cleveland didn't and they look poised to take the AFC North by storm in the next couple seasons.
(01-18-2019, 11:23 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 11:14 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]And that is your opinion. This is not a fact.
Of course it's his opinion. Why do you have to state that? Just like everything on this board is opinion.
That certainly doesn't appear to be worded as an opinion. Thanks for clarifying my egregious error.
A question for everyone..If you were TC/DC, would you still choose the option you picked? I see a lot of posts backing their stance with reasons that can be attributed to ‘what’s best for the team” whether long or short term. With Shad Khan’s statement following the Houston game..
‘’I have the same trust in Tom, Dave and Doug as I did upon their introduction two years ago, and I do believe our best path forward for the moment is the one less disruptive and dramatic. Stability should not be confused with satisfaction, however. I am far from content with the status quo and while it’s best to put 2018 behind us, I will not overlook how poorly we accounted for ourselves following a 3-1 start. There were far too many long Sundays over the last three quarters of the season, with today’s loss in Houston being the final example, and that cannot repeat itself in 2019. That’s my message to our football people and players, but also our sponsors and fans, both of whom were remarkable."
Does, that have any bearing on what you would do to achieve quicker results? Would a rookie starting and going 7-9 be good enough to retain your job? Do you have multiple years to develop someone and get it right? Maybe I’m reading into that bolded part too much. Was just wondering if your jobs were on the line if the same answers would be given. I know I’ve been pro Foles since the end of the season, but I’ve had that statement in the back of my mind as well. I’m not trying to sway anyone by any means. Ive enjoyed reading the discussion on this topic. And curious how Shads patience could influence the decision, if any.
(01-18-2019, 11:53 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 11:47 AM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]I'm with you on that. either get a guy you know is the future or someone who you know will make an immediate impact.
It won't be hard to be better on offense than the Jags were last season. I don't think anyone is denying that the offense will be better with Foles next season. However, if the price tag is 20+ million, I'm passing on him. I think Haskins gives the Jags the best chance at consistently winning games. I think he can play right away and I think he will continue to get better.
It'll be fascinating to see what kind of contracts the QBs get in free agency this year. Relatively speaking there are only a few teams really in need of a QB so it could be that less demand actually keeps the contracts very affordable. This could also be affected by the fact that next year has a bumper crop of rookie QBs, so teams on the fence about replacing their current starter may decide to stay put for another year.
Alternatively, you could argue that the lack of elite options in this years rookie group (Haskins is the only one close to a consensus blue-chip prospect) will actually drive up the price for FA QBs.
I don't know, I didn't study economics.
(01-18-2019, 12:54 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]A question for everyone..If you were TC/DC, would you still choose the option you picked? I see a lot of posts backing their stance with reasons that can be attributed to ‘what’s best for the team” whether long or short term. With Shad Khan’s statement following the Houston game..
‘’I have the same trust in Tom, Dave and Doug as I did upon their introduction two years ago, and I do believe our best path forward for the moment is the one less disruptive and dramatic. Stability should not be confused with satisfaction, however. I am far from content with the status quo and while it’s best to put 2018 behind us, I will not overlook how poorly we accounted for ourselves following a 3-1 start. There were far too many long Sundays over the last three quarters of the season, with today’s loss in Houston being the final example, and that cannot repeat itself in 2019. That’s my message to our football people and players, but also our sponsors and fans, both of whom were remarkable."
Does, that have any bearing on what you would do to achieve quicker results? Would a rookie starting and going 7-9 be good enough to retain your job? Do you have multiple years to develop someone and get it right? Maybe I’m reading into that bolded part too much. Was just wondering if your jobs were on the line if the same answers would be given. I know I’ve been pro Foles since the end of the season, but I’ve had that statement in the back of my mind as well. I’m not trying to sway anyone by any means. Ive enjoyed reading the discussion on this topic. And curious how Shads patience could influence the decision, if any.
I most likely wouldn't be in this mess if I was TC/DC because I would have passed on Fournette and picked Mahomes or Watson.
(01-18-2019, 12:57 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (01-18-2019, 12:54 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]A question for everyone..If you were TC/DC, would you still choose the option you picked? I see a lot of posts backing their stance with reasons that can be attributed to ‘what’s best for the team” whether long or short term. With Shad Khan’s statement following the Houston game..
‘’I have the same trust in Tom, Dave and Doug as I did upon their introduction two years ago, and I do believe our best path forward for the moment is the one less disruptive and dramatic. Stability should not be confused with satisfaction, however. I am far from content with the status quo and while it’s best to put 2018 behind us, I will not overlook how poorly we accounted for ourselves following a 3-1 start. There were far too many long Sundays over the last three quarters of the season, with today’s loss in Houston being the final example, and that cannot repeat itself in 2019. That’s my message to our football people and players, but also our sponsors and fans, both of whom were remarkable."
Does, that have any bearing on what you would do to achieve quicker results? Would a rookie starting and going 7-9 be good enough to retain your job? Do you have multiple years to develop someone and get it right? Maybe I’m reading into that bolded part too much. Was just wondering if your jobs were on the line if the same answers would be given. I know I’ve been pro Foles since the end of the season, but I’ve had that statement in the back of my mind as well. I’m not trying to sway anyone by any means. Ive enjoyed reading the discussion on this topic. And curious how Shads patience could influence the decision, if any.
I most likely wouldn't be in this mess if I was TC/DC because I would have passed on Fournette and picked Mahomes or Watson.
Touché
I guess that doesn’t bode well for our expectations.