(03-03-2019, 07:33 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 07:10 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Houston was a good run defense the others were not.
That's exactly the point he's making btw , that Foles's success was largely a creation of the scheme in 2018. They put training wheels on him and let him dump off on screens and quick passes to avoid pressure....when he was asked to throw past 5 yards he was not good at all.
Chicago, New Orleans, Houston Top 5 Defense in rush yards and yards per attempt.
The scheme wasnt because of the pass rush and Foles supposed poor performance throwing past 5 yards but because of the Eagles inability to run the ball and the rush defenses faced. So they ran more short yardage quick hitting passes to supplement the run game.
Those stats are a result of the scheme shift and specific gameplans.
We cant make broad assumptions on 5 games worth of data. What Ruiz interprets as training wheels, can easily be described as shifting variables of the NFL. I could probably find a five game stretch by Wentz that can come to the same conclusion as Ruiz
They didn't play Chicago or New Orleans in the regular season unfortunately, which is what the stats and article are specifically talking about. In fact bar Houston they didn't play any good rushing defenses during that 5 game stretch.
The sample size is his 2018 regular season performance, in which the author shows how scheme aided his performance was. It worked really well for the team, got the job done and helped minimize blitzs + pressure from hurting Foles. Its just important to recognise how it was done, when he was asked to throw past 5 yards he was one of the worst QBs in the league at doing so.
It doesn't mean he's one of the worst QBs in the league, it doesn't mean Foles can't ever play well without being heavily aided by scheme. It's just showing how scheme HAS aided him in 2018 (and that's not a bad thing for the Eagles to do either, it's what teams should be doing )
(03-03-2019, 07:51 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]This seem really early for this leak, and given it has been leaked to a Philly source, Jeff McLane, that everyone is using I'm a little skeptical. This seems like what Foles' agent would leak to let other teams know, "We are talking to this team and he is going for under market value, why don't you also going the bidding?"
Essentially, I don't think this is as assured as it is being made out to be.
He's a backup tier QB, he's getting above market value from the Jags.
Good point, there's still 10 days to FA.
(03-03-2019, 07:51 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 07:33 PM)jagshype Wrote: [ -> ]Chicago, New Orleans, Houston Top 5 Defense in rush yards and yards per attempt.
The scheme wasnt because of the pass rush and Foles supposed poor performance throwing past 5 yards but because of the Eagles inability to run the ball and the rush defenses faced. So they ran more short yardage quick hitting passes to supplement the run game.
Those stats are a result of the scheme shift and specific gameplans.
We cant make broad assumptions on 5 games worth of data. What Ruiz interprets as training wheels, can easily be described as shifting variables of the NFL. I could probably find a five game stretch by Wentz that can come to the same conclusion as Ruiz
They didn't play Chicago or New Orleans in the regular season unfortunately, which is what the stats and article are specifically talking about. In fact bar Houston they didn't play any good rushing defenses during that 5 game stretch.
The sample size is his 2018 regular season performance, in which the author shows how scheme aided his performance was. It worked really well for the team, got the job done and helped minimize blitzs + pressure from hurting Foles. Its just important to recognise how it was done, when he was asked to throw past 5 yards he was one of the worst QBs in the league at doing so.
It doesn't mean he's one of the worst QBs in the league, it doesn't mean Foles can't ever play well without being heavily aided by scheme. It's just showing how scheme HAS aided him in 2018 (and that's not a bad thing for the Eagles to do either, it's what teams should be doing )
First, I would point out that the number of games Foles started in 2018 is a very small sample size. Even a few outliers can really stretch the data.
Also, that Philly team was in that position because they could not run the ball against bad run defenses, forget good ones. Heck, they probably should have lost to the Jags last year if not for poor red zone offense by Jacksonville.
Every non-elite QB has to be aided by scheme. You also have to give them a running game or a short-passing game that mimics a running game. You have to be at least above average on defense. This is also required for nearly every Super Bowl winning team starting a rookie QB on their rookie contract. This is not new.
No one is bringing Foles into this team to become Peyton or Brady. Everyone saw this team get to an AFC championship game. While Bortles did not lose that game, everyone felt last spring that even upgrading Bortles somewhat and eliminating the low points he can get to, would ensure the Jags could get to AFC CG again. Even last year, only 1 team was really relying on the QB to win their games (Mahomes), and they faltered because they didn't have enough help from the defense.
Foles is an attempt to shift QB play to at least average and hopefully just above average. This team is designed to win now with a defense that is very well constructed to play a Chiefs or Rams offense.
(03-03-2019, 04:12 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 04:10 PM)snowwolf776 Wrote: [ -> ]Foles is highly overrated. he only looked good with eagles cause of a great offenssive line,and a Super star WR. unforttanttly Jags don't have either. Jags have some of the worst luck for injurys to key players. 2017 season was a fluke as far as injurys. Foles will be a major mistake.
This coming from you or your dad? You are usually the positive one.
me. how good was he when he was with the rams who at the time had a bad offenssive line. if you can't protect your qb he can't do anything. one of the reasons pats,and brady win so much is hes never had a bad offenssive line. Foles is highly overated cause eagles have a great offenssive line,and a go to WR.
(03-03-2019, 08:00 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 07:51 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]This seem really early for this leak, and given it has been leaked to a Philly source, Jeff McLane, that everyone is using I'm a little skeptical. This seems like what Foles' agent would leak to let other teams know, "We are talking to this team and he is going for under market value, why don't you also going the bidding?"
Essentially, I don't think this is as assured as it is being made out to be.
He's a backup tier QB, he's getting above market value from the Jags.
So you think there are 32 QB's on NFL rosters or in the draft better than Foles for the 2019 season?
(03-03-2019, 08:12 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 07:51 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]They didn't play Chicago or New Orleans in the regular season unfortunately, which is what the stats and article are specifically talking about. In fact bar Houston they didn't play any good rushing defenses during that 5 game stretch.
The sample size is his 2018 regular season performance, in which the author shows how scheme aided his performance was. It worked really well for the team, got the job done and helped minimize blitzs + pressure from hurting Foles. Its just important to recognise how it was done, when he was asked to throw past 5 yards he was one of the worst QBs in the league at doing so.
It doesn't mean he's one of the worst QBs in the league, it doesn't mean Foles can't ever play well without being heavily aided by scheme. It's just showing how scheme HAS aided him in 2018 (and that's not a bad thing for the Eagles to do either, it's what teams should be doing )
First, I would point out that the number of games Foles started in 2018 is a very small sample size. Even a few outliers can really stretch the data.
Also, that Philly team was in that position because they could not run the ball against bad run defenses, forget good ones. Heck, they probably should have lost to the Jags last year if not for poor red zone offense by Jacksonville.
Every non-elite QB has to be aided by scheme. You also have to give them a running game or a short-passing game that mimics a running game. You have to be at least above average on defense. This is also required for nearly every Super Bowl winning team starting a rookie QB on their rookie contract. This is not new.
No one is bringing Foles into this team to become Peyton or Brady. Everyone saw this team get to an AFC championship game. While Bortles did not lose that game, everyone felt last spring that even upgrading Bortles somewhat and eliminating the low points he can get to, would ensure the Jags could get to AFC CG again. Even last year, only 1 team was really relying on the QB to win their games (Mahomes), and they faltered because they didn't have enough help from the defense.
Foles is an attempt to shift QB play to at least average and hopefully just above average. This team is designed to win now with a defense that is very well constructed to play a Chiefs or Rams offense.
I don't know why you guys think that article is a message that says non elite QBs don't need help from their scheme or that it's bad to do that??
Nobody is saying Foles needs to be Brady or Manning. Nobody is saying you don't need a defense to win a SB. All they are showing is the influence of scheme on QB performance, in Nick Fole's and the Eagles circumstance they kept him in a simple offense that relied on beating blitz and pressure with screens and dump offs (very well designed) while also, as you have said , helping to stimulate the run game (The eagles were 11th in rush yards over the first 4 weeks btw, they ran the ball well against the Rams and Redskins late in the year too, struggled Vs the Texans).
And yeah I've already posted about Foles being an average QB with high variance multiple times. I'm not sure many are disputing that
(03-03-2019, 08:14 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 08:00 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]He's a backup tier QB, he's getting above market value from the Jags.
So you think there are 32 QB's on NFL rosters or in the draft better than Foles for the 2019 season?
No, but none of the teams with a franchise QB would take him over their guy. There are plenty of teams that just don't have a true starting level guy.
Rapsheet says his contract will be more than Case Keenums, around 20 million per year....
Ian Rapoport just said to keep an eye on the Dolphins and Giants going after Foles as well and that he's going to get a contract well over $20m+ per year... Yuck.
(03-03-2019, 08:37 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 08:14 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]So you think there are 32 QB's on NFL rosters or in the draft better than Foles for the 2019 season?
No, but none of the teams with a franchise QB would take him over their guy. There are plenty of teams that just don't have a true starting level guy.
What does that even mean? No one is expecting Foles to be a franchise QB. If the Jags are signing him to some god awful Cousins deal, then that is a travesty.
He is an upgrade over what the Jags have had for at least the last 8 years, and can make the offense average. With this defense, the Jags can win games with that.
(03-03-2019, 08:42 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 08:37 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]No, but none of the teams with a franchise QB would take him over their guy. There are plenty of teams that just don't have a true starting level guy.
What does that even mean? No one is expecting Foles to be a franchise QB. If the Jags are signing him to some god awful Cousins deal, then that is a travesty.
He is an upgrade over what the Jags have had for at least the last 8 years, and can make the offense average. With this defense, the Jags can win games with that.
So he's a slightly better Bortles? Are you even sure he's that.
No one is sure about anything anynore. Lets just trade 3 first rounds for rodgers
(03-03-2019, 08:53 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 08:42 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]What does that even mean? No one is expecting Foles to be a franchise QB. If the Jags are signing him to some god awful Cousins deal, then that is a travesty.
He is an upgrade over what the Jags have had for at least the last 8 years, and can make the offense average. With this defense, the Jags can win games with that.
So he's a slightly better Bortles? Are you even sure he's that.
Have you watched the 2 play?
(03-03-2019, 08:38 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Rapsheet says his contract will be more than Case Keenums, around 20 million per year....
20 million for Foles?!
My god. Please no. That’s the worst possible outcome.
(03-03-2019, 09:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 08:38 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Rapsheet says his contract will be more than Case Keenums, around 20 million per year....
20 million for Foles?!
My god. Please no. That’s the worst possible outcome.
x10000000
I was on the fence with him around $15mil. Over $20 would be gut wrenching.
(03-03-2019, 09:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 08:38 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Rapsheet says his contract will be more than Case Keenums, around 20 million per year....
20 million for Foles?!
My god. Please no. That’s the worst possible outcome.
Yup and he said at least $20m+ per.
We're not even in the legal tampering period yet.
I would take some of these reports with a grain of salt.
He is better than Bortles and I don't trust the FO to draft the right guy, so may as well pay the man. I'd spend top draft picks on a WR and TE
(03-03-2019, 09:17 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-03-2019, 09:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]20 million for Foles?!
My god. Please no. That’s the worst possible outcome.
Yup and he said at least $20m+ per.
I just don’t see how they can spend 20+ on Foles.
If you’re cutting Blake, you need to go cheap at QB and that means a rookie.