(02-01-2019, 01:53 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 12:25 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Your best shot of winning the SB is either A) Having a HOF QB or B) Having an incredibly well built team. A starting QB on a rookie deal is one of the greatest team building advantages you can have in todays NFL so yes it would be a big help to have that if you are trying to win a SB and don't have a QB.
His natty and heisman count for nothing in the NFL. His NFL resume is a bad QB who was historically inaccurate and had a good run to the playoffs. He was a bust pick and he's not in the league because he's not enough at throwing the ball. You can keep dying on a hill over him because he went to your school and we will keep making fun of you for it.
hahaha
You also have to remember that there wasn’t a rookie cap until recently like 2012? Before that it wasn’t a huge advantage because top tier qbs got massive deals right out of college.
Thats partly why its a dumb argument to use in the first place. The team building benefits of a starting QB on a rookie deal are obvious to almost everyone
(02-01-2019, 02:36 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 01:53 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ]You also have to remember that there wasn’t a rookie cap until recently like 2012? Before that it wasn’t a huge advantage because top tier qbs got massive deals right out of college.
Thats partly why its a dumb argument to use in the first place. The team building benefits of a starting QB on a rookie deal are obvious to almost everyone
Either be elite or be on a rookie deal (or be both of you’re Mahomes).
Lets just look at the QBs who were in the post season
Elite: Rivers, Brady, Brees, Luck, Wilson
Rookie Deals: Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky, Goff, Jackson, Prescott
Then Foles.
(02-01-2019, 03:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 02:36 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Thats partly why its a dumb argument to use in the first place. The team building benefits of a starting QB on a rookie deal are obvious to almost everyone
Either be elite or be on a rookie deal (or be both of you’re Mahomes).
Lets just look at the QBs who were in the post season
Elite: Rivers, Brady, Brees, Luck, Wilson
Rookie Deals: Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky, Goff, Jackson, Prescott
Then Foles.
Yea the fact is fans need to stop with foles. If we get him we’re gonna lose jack and yan or Ramsey and foles is not carrying an average roster. Drew brees couldn’t even carry the saints to the playoffs for years and years even with jimmy graham and a solid run game and cooks and he’s one of the best ever. Fact is we weren’t a stop gap qb away last year and if we fall into that our window will completely close. We need to bring back Blake draft Haskins play Blake’s formula next year which is get a lead, run the ball, play action, and a couple plays with his legs. That gives us the best chance next year and the following we cut him clear space for yan/jack/Ramsey and roll with Haskins.
(02-01-2019, 03:55 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 03:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Either be elite or be on a rookie deal (or be both of you’re Mahomes).
Lets just look at the QBs who were in the post season
Elite: Rivers, Brady, Brees, Luck, Wilson
Rookie Deals: Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky, Goff, Jackson, Prescott
Then Foles.
Yea the fact is fans need to stop with foles. If we get him we’re gonna lose jack and yan or Ramsey and foles is not carrying an average roster. Drew brees couldn’t even carry the saints to the playoffs for years and years even with jimmy graham and a solid run game and cooks and he’s one of the best ever. Fact is we weren’t a stop gap qb away last year and if we fall into that our window will completely close. We need to bring back Blake draft Haskins play Blake’s formula next year which is get a lead, run the ball, play action, and a couple plays with his legs. That gives us the best chance next year and the following we cut him clear space for yan/jack/Ramsey and roll with Haskins.
Whoa.
I don’t want Foles but I don’t want Blake anywhere near this team next year. Blake will be gone regardless.
I’m hoping for Haskins and McCown for next season.
I'm just ready for the combine. Its gonna be a long month
(02-01-2019, 12:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 12:02 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure if you are playing stupid or if its just a natural disposition. I said "having a Qb on a rookie deal is a massive advantage" to which you said " oh yeah name some QBs who've got their team to a SB on a rookie deal then (which is a dumb argument to disprove the point made), i then listed some in recent memory. So you have no issues with my statement then? Good.
Tebow and Manziel? I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm died on a hill over Teddy vs the other Qbs in the draft considering I barely posted back then. You've also claimed multiple time that my draft takes come from the media and twitter, despite plenty of evidence in multiple threads on here to the contrary
You claimed Tebow is a good QB who isn't in the league due to a religous black balling. Thats dying on a hill because he played for the college you support
But the goal is trying to win a SB. So who falls in in there? Wilson and Flacco? 2 QBs that had the best D in the league
So you try and knock his argument for Wilson and Flacco because they had good Defenses? While it's true they did, it's laughable that you'd say such a thing because your man crush Foles took over a team that was 11-2 at the time and red hot. He had very little to do with getting them to where they were that season.
They had arguably the best DL in the league and a good Defense as well. Yea, Foles had a good run of 2 games in the playoffs (vs Minn and NE), but that's it. He didn't even score a TD in the game vs Atlanta. That Defense held Atlanta to 10 points and then the Vikings to 7 points in the next game...
Foles was simply lucky enough that Wentz tore his ACL at the end of that season and he was able to take over a red hot team firing on all cylinders.
(02-01-2019, 06:06 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 12:07 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]But the goal is trying to win a SB. So who falls in in there? Wilson and Flacco? 2 QBs that had the best D in the league
So you try and knock his argument for Wilson and Flacco because they had good Defenses? While it's true they did, it's laughable that you'd say such a thing because your man crush Foles took over a team that was 11-2 at the time and red hot. He had very little to do with getting them to where they were that season.
They had arguably the best DL in the league and a good Defense as well. Yea, Foles had a good run of 2 games in the playoffs (vs Minn and NE), but that's it. He didn't even score a TD in the game vs Atlanta. That Defense held Atlanta to 10 points and then the Vikings to 7 points in the next game...
Foles was simply lucky enough that Wentz tore his ACL at the end of that season and he was able to take over a red hot team firing on all cylinders.
Wait, so you're saying if Tom Brady breaks his leg in practice tomorrow, the red hot Patriots are still going to win the SB?
(02-01-2019, 06:15 PM)Sammy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 06:06 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]So you try and knock his argument for Wilson and Flacco because they had good Defenses? While it's true they did, it's laughable that you'd say such a thing because your man crush Foles took over a team that was 11-2 at the time and red hot. He had very little to do with getting them to where they were that season.
They had arguably the best DL in the league and a good Defense as well. Yea, Foles had a good run of 2 games in the playoffs (vs Minn and NE), but that's it. He didn't even score a TD in the game vs Atlanta. That Defense held Atlanta to 10 points and then the Vikings to 7 points in the next game...
Foles was simply lucky enough that Wentz tore his ACL at the end of that season and he was able to take over a red hot team firing on all cylinders.
Wait, so you're saying if Tom Brady breaks his leg in practice tomorrow, the red hot Patriots are still going to win the SB?
they'd probably win by at least 60.
(02-01-2019, 06:20 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 06:15 PM)Sammy Wrote: [ -> ]Wait, so you're saying if Tom Brady breaks his leg in practice tomorrow, the red hot Patriots are still going to win the SB?
they'd probably win by at least 60.
So, take the over? Don't let me down here man, I have a lot riding on this. Should I call Gillooly?
We are in a win NOW mode.
You can't count on a rookie QB to win a Superbowl. As others have said Foles has been there, done that, and has a SB mvp award as well. I will take Foles any day then hoping some rookie turns out to be great.
This should be a poll
(02-01-2019, 06:57 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]We are in a win NOW mode.
You can't count on a rookie QB to win a Superbowl. As others have said Foles has been there, done that, and has a SB mvp award as well. I will take Foles any day then hoping some rookie turns out to be great.
This should be a poll
The whole win now mode thing is such a joke. You think other teams are in trying to lose on purpose mode? Hell no..
Every team is trying to win every season, or else they're going to get their [BLEEP] fired. Every team is in win now mode.. There's not a single team in the league saying, "hey guys, our goal this season is to only win 3 games, that's it!"...
(02-01-2019, 06:57 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]We are in a win NOW mode.
You can't count on a rookie QB to win a Superbowl. As others have said Foles has been there, done that, and has a SB mvp award as well. I will take Foles any day then hoping some rookie turns out to be great.
This should be a poll
Jags are not in “win now mode”.
They went for that last year and it failed miserably. They need consistent QB play and a franchise one. The closest person to that available this year will be Haskins, IMO.
(02-01-2019, 08:56 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 02:25 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]If you dip your toe into free agency, it's guaranteed you're going to overspend. How much you overspend depends on the quality of the FAs you're bringing in.
As far as paying stupid milions for a QB, the only way to avoid that is to do whatever you have to do to select the best QB in the draft, AND sign a veteran FA to a reasonable deal. Again, you're going to overspend on any veteran you sign because that's the nature of the beast.
There are only two QBs that I can see either as a bridge QB or as a backup/insurance QB to a rookie first-round pick without breaking our bank, and that Bortles and Fitz. As the GM, if I could somehow sell Bortles to fans I'd be tempted to just keep him, but if forced to go another direction I'm taking Fitz. Fitz would be a tad more, but he's affordable. Tyrod Taylor, Bridgewater and Foles are simply going to be far too expensive, and the first two aren't any better than Bortles. I can at least justify Foles as being somewhat worth paying up for but the Jaguars don't have the luxury of paying up that much even with the additional roll-over money. We can use that money at a few other spots.
Bortles at 21 mil isnt breaking the bank?
(02-01-2019, 09:20 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 08:56 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]There are only two QBs that I can see either as a bridge QB or as a backup/insurance QB to a rookie first-round pick without breaking our bank, and that Bortles and Fitz. As the GM, if I could somehow sell Bortles to fans I'd be tempted to just keep him, but if forced to go another direction I'm taking Fitz. Fitz would be a tad more, but he's affordable. Tyrod Taylor, Bridgewater and Foles are simply going to be far too expensive, and the first two aren't any better than Bortles. I can at least justify Foles as being somewhat worth paying up for but the Jaguars don't have the luxury of paying up that much even with the additional roll-over money. We can use that money at a few other spots.
Bortles at 21 mil isnt breaking the bank?
Not if he's on the roster.
(02-01-2019, 04:18 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 03:55 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ]Yea the fact is fans need to stop with foles. If we get him we’re gonna lose jack and yan or Ramsey and foles is not carrying an average roster. Drew brees couldn’t even carry the saints to the playoffs for years and years even with jimmy graham and a solid run game and cooks and he’s one of the best ever. Fact is we weren’t a stop gap qb away last year and if we fall into that our window will completely close. We need to bring back Blake draft Haskins play Blake’s formula next year which is get a lead, run the ball, play action, and a couple plays with his legs. That gives us the best chance next year and the following we cut him clear space for yan/jack/Ramsey and roll with Haskins.
Whoa.
I don’t want Foles but I don’t want Blake anywhere near this team next year. Blake will be gone regardless.
I’m hoping for Haskins and McCown for next season.
You didn’t mind him near our team earlier this year when we were 3-1 and he completely torched the jets and pats did you? Or last year when we had the #6 offense and we put up 44 in Pittsburgh and he played a great game in foxboro in the playoffs did you? Fact is this team was bad offensively for more reasons than Blake. Our offense was decimated no qb would overcome having NO weapons and all backup and on the line. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that rivers was elite he didn’t even win a playoff game since what like 07 before this year. Listen Blake isn’t the answer long term but to get rid of him and his contract for ANY of these guys in free agency is just for the sake of moving on through fan and team POV, which I think drafting Haskins will accomplish that perspective.
(02-01-2019, 11:53 PM)PAJag Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2019, 04:18 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Whoa.
I don’t want Foles but I don’t want Blake anywhere near this team next year. Blake will be gone regardless.
I’m hoping for Haskins and McCown for next season.
You didn’t mind him near our team earlier this year when we were 3-1 and he completely torched the jets and pats did you? Or last year when we had the #6 offense and we put up 44 in Pittsburgh and he played a great game in foxboro in the playoffs did you? Fact is this team was bad offensively for more reasons than Blake. Our offense was decimated no qb would overcome having NO weapons and all backup and on the line. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that rivers was elite he didn’t even win a playoff game since what like 07 before this year. Listen Blake isn’t the answer long term but to get rid of him and his contract for ANY of these guys in free agency is just for the sake of moving on through fan and team POV, which I think drafting Haskins will accomplish that perspective.
We easily could have won more games this year think of cole’s fumble against the eagles we win without that. The colts game with the Greene fumble we probably win that one. Buffalo if fournette isn’t an idiot we win. Titans first game Malik’s helmet to helmet on Gabbert. Pittsburgh dont even get me started. That would of gave us 10 wins right there even in spite of everything. We were unsuccessful for many reasons last year. Injuries were a big part but nobody makes the playoffs with a turnover differential like we did NOBODY and penalty differential was rediculous too. To many fumbles dropped passes guys partying before a game which is why I’m shocked marine is still here. We need to stop blaming Blake for everything he’s not the long term answer but stop believing guys like Tyrod Taylor and McCown are upgrades they’re not. Blake can play playoff football and he can make big plays. Like I said he needs a formula but he gives us the best chance next year even regardless of money