(05-01-2019, 09:03 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2019, 08:53 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]One important thing to note here is that the targets weighed heavily in that result.
Engram had 115 targets that year.
Almost identical to Ertz' avg targets over the past two season. It's a very high number for a TE.
We'll see how many Oliver earns, but I'd not be surprised if he is pushing 80 tgts as the primary move TE in the playbook we anticipate. Should give him a chance at some impressive numbers (even if it doesn't meet the mark proposed by sfljf)
I think Oliver is going to be pretty good but I just don't see him having 700 yards as a rookie. 700 yards would have put him at TE #6 in yards.... Ahead of Gronk. Let's also not forget that his biggest weakness right now is blocking and if there's one thing this staff loves, it's blocking. From all positions.
If Marrone and Coughlin can completely change their mentality (which I'm hoping), to allow more TE movement, then he has a shot.
Right. That's why I said 500 was a much more reasonable expectation if he gets a high volume of targets. And why I hinted it would not reach the # suggested by the other poster. I'd be pleasantly shocked if he eclipsed 550 as a rook.
Regarding the offensive "mentality" - fear not.
I don't think they paired DeFilippo and Foles together just to handcuff them. Flip has already expressed his intention to line up Oliver "all over the place."
They didn't target the most "move TE-type-of-prospect" that was left on the board in round three just to line him up next to a tackle all the time.
(05-01-2019, 01:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2019, 09:03 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I think Oliver is going to be pretty good but I just don't see him having 700 yards as a rookie. 700 yards would have put him at TE #6 in yards.... Ahead of Gronk. Let's also not forget that his biggest weakness right now is blocking and if there's one thing this staff loves, it's blocking. From all positions.
If Marrone and Coughlin can completely change their mentality (which I'm hoping), to allow more TE movement, then he has a shot.
Right. That's why I said 500 was a much more reasonable expectation if he gets a high volume of targets. And why I hinted it would not reach the # suggested by the other poster. I'd be pleasantly shocked if he eclipsed 550 as a rook.
Regarding the offensive "mentality" - fear not.
I don't think they paired DeFilippo and Foles together just to handcuff them. Flip has already expressed his intention to line up Oliver "all over the place."
They didn't target the most "move TE-type-of-prospect" that was left on the board in round three just to line him up next to a tackle all the time.
Although I am optimistic that they are moving on from the 21 personnel packages with a fullback, I need to see it first. I'm very cautious at this point and hopefully they completely revamp the offense to do what Foles does best.
(05-01-2019, 02:10 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2019, 01:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Right. That's why I said 500 was a much more reasonable expectation if he gets a high volume of targets. And why I hinted it would not reach the # suggested by the other poster. I'd be pleasantly shocked if he eclipsed 550 as a rook.
Regarding the offensive "mentality" - fear not.
I don't think they paired DeFilippo and Foles together just to handcuff them. Flip has already expressed his intention to line up Oliver "all over the place."
They didn't target the most "move TE-type-of-prospect" that was left on the board in round three just to line him up next to a tackle all the time.
Although I am optimistic that they are moving on from the 21 personnel packages with a fullback, I need to see it first. I'm very cautious at this point and hopefully they completely revamp the offense to do what Foles does best.
I'll try to give you some hope.
Shad Khan stated clearly that they coveted Foles in free agency as soon as the 2018 season was a wrap.
So they were already pretty set on signing him at the QB position when they hired DeFilippo.
They'd have to be awfully obtuse to go about pairing Foles with the guy from the OC pool that best knows Foles' strengths and weaknesses -- and then forcing them both to run something other than that.
Heck - even TC has spoken about the importance of the TE position on a number of occasions this offseason.
That's a good sign too.
I mean, I know we'll see differences from Reich's playbook because we have a different roster and a strong desire to pound the rock. But I think "
Flip+Foles+Oliver= lots of action for the Move TE "
(05-02-2019, 05:06 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-27-2019, 01:11 PM)Jags239 Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly haven’t done much TE watching besides Hockenson, but Fant is considered a pass catcher that can’t really block and a first rounder. Oliver looks really fluid as a pass catcher, just doesn’t sound like a good blocker. Guess I’ll have to compare numbers but what does Fant have that Oliver doesn’t?
Fant can block. It's just his strength is receiving because he's so incredibly good at it, and he's not at Hockenson's level as a blocker. Oliver needs signigicant developing as a blocker. Fant is much further athead in that regard.
A lot of people said Dallas Goedert couldn't block worth a lick last year when he got drafted by the Eagles but when he finally started seeing the field more and more he was being praised for his toughness in the blocking area. Oliver at 6'5, 250 has the frame to add more bulk and should develop just fine. He's in the NFL now. He'll have the benefit of working out with guys everyday that have been doing this [BLEEP] for 5, 10 years.
I think between Pharoah McKever, Ben Koyack, Geoff Swaim and certainly James O'Shaughnessy we'll get a solid blocker or two on this roster at the TE position. Oliver is going to be a move TE as a rookie more than likely that Foles will look to target here and there. He'll either serve as a decoy in certain situations or he'll be the focal point in certain situations if they feel they've discovered a mismatch throughout each week.
(05-02-2019, 09:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2019, 05:06 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Fant can block. It's just his strength is receiving because he's so incredibly good at it, and he's not at Hockenson's level as a blocker. Oliver needs signigicant developing as a blocker. Fant is much further athead in that regard.
A lot of people said Dallas Goedert couldn't block worth a lick last year when he got drafted by the Eagles but when he finally started seeing the field more and more he was being praised for his toughness in the blocking area. Oliver at 6'5, 250 has the frame to add more bulk and should develop just fine. He's in the NFL now. He'll have the benefit of working out with guys everyday that have been doing this [BLEEP] for 5, 10 years.
I think between Pharoah McKever, Ben Koyack, Geoff Swaim and certainly James O'Shaughnessy we'll get a solid blocker or two on this roster at the TE position. Oliver is going to be a move TE as a rookie more than likely that Foles will look to target here and there. He'll either serve as a decoy in certain situations or he'll be the focal point in certain situations if they feel they've discovered a mismatch throughout each week.
Imagine taking Goedert last season in round 1....
Goedert was the best blocking and receiving TE to come out last year.
The people that knocked him for his blocking was just people trying to just say random stuff
Goederts blocking was one of the positives about him as a prospect and why he would of been a perfect fit along with his insane catches.
https://twitter.com/PFF_Jordan/status/96...72032?s=19
(05-02-2019, 09:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2019, 09:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people said Dallas Goedert couldn't block worth a lick last year when he got drafted by the Eagles but when he finally started seeing the field more and more he was being praised for his toughness in the blocking area. Oliver at 6'5, 250 has the frame to add more bulk and should develop just fine. He's in the NFL now. He'll have the benefit of working out with guys everyday that have been doing this [BLEEP] for 5, 10 years.
I think between Pharoah McKever, Ben Koyack, Geoff Swaim and certainly James O'Shaughnessy we'll get a solid blocker or two on this roster at the TE position. Oliver is going to be a move TE as a rookie more than likely that Foles will look to target here and there. He'll either serve as a decoy in certain situations or he'll be the focal point in certain situations if they feel they've discovered a mismatch throughout each week.
Imagine taking Goedert last season in round 1....
It could have been a good pick. I don't know how Hackett would have worked him into the offense though. Bortles couldn't get a clean pass out to anybody. He was overthrowing O'Shaughnessy's tall [BLEEP] all the time and he was doing that to Lewis too early on in his career.
Hopefully Oliver and Armstead make up for passing on Goedert and Michel/Chubb last year. We'll see. If Bryan comes out this year and starts wrecking havoc behind the L.O.S all is forgiven.
(05-02-2019, 10:04 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Goedert was the best blocking and receiving TE to come out last year.
The people that knocked him for his blocking was just people trying to just say random stuff
Goederts blocking was one of the positives about him as a prospect and why he would of been a perfect fit along with his insane catches.
https://twitter.com/PFF_Jordan/status/96...72032?s=19
I think a lot of it was just him coming from a small school and the perception was that he was playing against weak defenders. I remember when they either played Chicago in the regular season or post season that Colinsworth specifically brought it up on one particular play. I think he actually chipped block the [BLEEP] out of Khalil Mack or pancaked him and then on that very same drive he had a huge splash play in the receiving game that either got called back or it stood. But I thought Hurst and Gesicki were praised more and considered better blockers?
(05-02-2019, 09:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2019, 09:54 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of people said Dallas Goedert couldn't block worth a lick last year when he got drafted by the Eagles but when he finally started seeing the field more and more he was being praised for his toughness in the blocking area. Oliver at 6'5, 250 has the frame to add more bulk and should develop just fine. He's in the NFL now. He'll have the benefit of working out with guys everyday that have been doing this [BLEEP] for 5, 10 years.
I think between Pharoah McKever, Ben Koyack, Geoff Swaim and certainly James O'Shaughnessy we'll get a solid blocker or two on this roster at the TE position. Oliver is going to be a move TE as a rookie more than likely that Foles will look to target here and there. He'll either serve as a decoy in certain situations or he'll be the focal point in certain situations if they feel they've discovered a mismatch throughout each week.
Imagine taking Goedert last season in round 1....
Would of been nice and its who I wanted but if we did get him we would have a hole at 3 tech. Our dline has the potential to be crazy good right now
(05-02-2019, 10:14 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2019, 09:59 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Imagine taking Goedert last season in round 1....
Would of been nice and its who I wanted but if we did get him we would have a hole at 3 tech. Our dline has the potential to be crazy good right now
Well now you got me drooling over how awesome Goedert and Ed Oliver would be on the Jags. And then Winovich instead of Josh Oliver.
(05-03-2019, 02:32 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2019, 10:14 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Would of been nice and its who I wanted but if we did get him we would have a hole at 3 tech. Our dline has the potential to be crazy good right now
Well now you got me drooling over how awesome Goedert and Ed Oliver would be on the Jags. And then Winovich instead of Josh Oliver.
I was gonna bring this up the other day. Would you of rather Winovich and Hockenson or Allen and Winovich? Hindsight 20/20 though. You dont know Winovich is going to be there when you are drafting. I was an Oliver fan but I think you're sleeping on Bryan though hes gonna be a beast. Even if we drafted Goedert last year we still would of take Allen in the first this year, you dont know Winovich is going to be there in the 3rd. Tl
(05-03-2019, 02:45 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I was gonna bring this up the other day. Would you of rather Winovich and Hockenson or Allen and Winovich?
I think you mean Allen and Josh Oliver or Hock and Winovich? The latter, but that's more because I think Winovich was a top ~30 player in this class and Oliver was around 100. Allen > Hock, but not by as much as Winovich > Oliver.