Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-15-2019, 07:26 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ]Devil's advocate: Broncos just went for 2 after scoring to make it 12-13 with 30 seconds left....and got it.

Right call, wrong play imo

Agreed.

(09-15-2019, 07:39 PM)PF* Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2019, 06:45 PM)LMD Wrote: [ -> ]That said, I do need to buck the trend of criticizing Marrone for not challenging the Hopkins catch; I can't fault Marrone for not challenging. With how the game wound up going with ref calls, do we really believe the refs would have reversed the call? I'm of the opinion that the Jags had a better chance of losing a timeout and a challenge than winning that challenge. And I'm not sure the potential of getting the call reversed was really worth the risk of losing a challenge that early in the game. Sure it helped the Texans score 3 points, and sure the Jags wound up not needing 2 challenges anyway, but it was an early score and ideally you expect your team to be able to respond somehow. For instance, if Ramsey didn't drop his pick-6, we probably don't even care about the challenge at this point. Knowing the team couldn't make-up a FG in hindsight makes the no-challenge look worse than I think it really was.

At the risk of being beat up here, I agree with you. IMO, challenges need to be saved for key moments or in cases of egregious calls against you, not for whatever that was- a first down around the 50 in the early going? Go ahead, beat me up, I thought Baloney Marroni did the right thing there.

It was still a somewhat key moment in the game, and they should have been able to verify that it was a drop and would likely be overturned. Marrone should have challenged, but it might be more than that... perhaps the guy giving him the info was waffling on if it would surely be called... if so, maybe he needs to get better. Whatever the reason, it should have been challenged, and as the HC he bears the responsibility.

The bigger issue for me was the STUPID call to go for two at the end. If Coughlin were to fire Marrone and take over, I wouldn't object.

(09-16-2019, 02:58 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-15-2019, 07:39 PM)PF* Wrote: [ -> ]At the risk of being beat up here, I agree with you. IMO, challenges need to be saved for key moments or in cases of egregious calls against you, not for whatever that was- a first down around the 50 in the early going? Go ahead, beat me up, I thought Baloney Marroni did the right thing there.

It was still a somewhat key moment in the game, and they should have been able to verify that it was a drop and would likely be overturned. Marrone should have challenged, but it might be more than that... perhaps the guy giving him the info was waffling on if it would surely be called... if so, maybe he needs to get better. Whatever the reason, it should have been challenged, and as the HC he bears the responsibility.

The bigger issue for me was the STUPID call to go for two at the end. If Coughlin were to fire Marrone and take over, I wouldn't object.

Well, you're certainly wrong. Challenge to an early call at midfield that you won't win is dumb and you always go for the win on the road.

For the life of me, I can't understand why it takes this coaching staff so long to figure simple things out.

For instance, why are we still running it up the gut on first down? Scoring drives: FG in 2nd quarter, they threw on first down every time. 2nd FG, threw on first down 3 of 4 times. TD, threw on first down 4 of 5 times. Stop running it up the gut on first downs and let this kid get going. How about some quick bubble screens? RB screens? TE hitch? God anything other than running the ball.

Did you guys notice Hayden when Marrone went to Ramsey? lol it's so obvious he lost the team and gets no respect from players, Hayden was like "get the $%^& out and go coach" he even threw his drink haha

(09-16-2019, 09:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]For the life of me, I can't understand why it takes this coaching staff so long to figure simple things out.

For instance, why are we still running it up the gut on first down? Scoring drives: FG in 2nd quarter, they threw on first down every time. 2nd FG, threw on first down 3 of 4 times. TD, threw on first down 4 of 5 times. Stop running it up the gut on first downs and let this kid get going. How about some quick bubble screens? RB screens? TE hitch? God anything other than running the ball.

1. We have a run first philosophy.
2. Flip was fired last year for throwing it too much.
3. We have a guard playing left tackle.
4. We already have one QB on IR.

(09-16-2019, 09:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 09:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]For the life of me, I can't understand why it takes this coaching staff so long to figure simple things out.

For instance, why are we still running it up the gut on first down? Scoring drives: FG in 2nd quarter, they threw on first down every time. 2nd FG, threw on first down 3 of 4 times. TD, threw on first down 4 of 5 times. Stop running it up the gut on first downs and let this kid get going. How about some quick bubble screens? RB screens? TE hitch? God anything other than running the ball.

1. We have a run first philosophy.
2. Flip was fired last year for throwing it too much.
3. We have a guard playing left tackle.
4. We already have one QB on IR.

And? It was clearly not working and it was also clear the moment wasn't too big for Minshew.

My point was that it takes this coaching staff far too long to make very simple and obvious changes.

(09-16-2019, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 09:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]1. We have a run first philosophy.
2. Flip was fired last year for throwing it too much.
3. We have a guard playing left tackle.
4. We already have one QB on IR.

And? It was clearly not working and it was also clear the moment wasn't too big for Minshew.

My point was that it takes this coaching staff far too long to make very simple and obvious changes.

The needed adjustments were literally staring them right in the face and they just continued to look baffled.

I would have gone 5 wide (showing an entirely new look) if my intent was to run Fournette up the middle.

Like many of you, I was disappointed with the insistence of the run game at times yesterday.
However, it's important to look at this rationally.

The Jaguars attempted 38 passes and 21 runs yesterday. That's not bad balance at all.
The thing folks seem most frustrated with is running Fournette on first down.
They did that on 9 of their 18 first downs yesterday. I'd like to see more creativity there too, but again not a terrible number.

Personally, I think DeFilippo will adapt his usage of Fournette sooner than later when he determines this bellcow approach isn't going to work. Hopefully this week, but it may take a bit longer.

There are several criticisms being discussed here. I'll give my take:

1. Marrone didn't challenge Hopkins' first down catch. Ramsey was almost certainly right, but from my view of the replays, I didn't see conclusive evidence that it wasn't a catch. Maybe a different angle that they didn't show on TV would have given a definitive answer. We lost the Fournette run review because there wasn't a good camera angle. Had it been challenged I'd put the odds of it being overturned well below 50%. Early in the game around midfield is not the best use of the challenge flag. I think Marrone did the right thing here.

2. The Ramsey tirade. I agree that it looks as if Marrone has lost the respect of the team. Maybe that can be fixed, but I doubt it. It's too early to fire Marrone, that would just be giving up on the season, but we're going to need a new coach next season.

3. The decision to go for 2. I agree with that decision. While we had the momentum at the time, if we go for the tie that puts the game back in the hands of the refs. I don't trust the refs.

4. The play call, however, was beyond stupid. Fournette had tried several times to run for a yard or two and failed, and that was with the defense having to cover the whole field. Minshew had a hot hand. Let him make the play.

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(09-16-2019, 10:23 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]I would have gone 5 wide (showing an entirely new look)  if my intent was to run Fournette up the middle.

Five linemen plus five WRs plus one player to take the snap. Do you have Minshew or Fournette as the sole player in the backfield?

(09-16-2019, 10:27 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The thing folks seem most frustrated with is running Fournette

Time to see what Armstead and Ozigbo can contribute. At least some of the time. As rough as Fournette has looked thus far, it's only going to get worse with him getting run down playing as much as he has.

(09-16-2019, 10:42 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 10:27 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The thing folks seem most frustrated with is running Fournette (on first down)

Time to see what Armstead and Ozigbo can contribute. At least some of the time. As rough as Fournette has looked thus far, it's only going to get worse with him getting run down playing as much as he has.

I agree. If it were me, I'd have Armstead spelling LF and Ozigbo in a C.o.P. role this week even if it's only 8 touches between them.
Putting Fournette out there more than 75% of the snaps isn't going to make something magically click IMO. 

I'd also like to see them use that H-Back lead-blocking concept they used in preseason some more. LF clearly needs something different than what they gave him yesterday to find daylight.

(09-16-2019, 10:23 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]I would have gone 5 wide (showing an entirely new look)  if my intent was to run Fournette up the middle.

Wildcat?
Or did you mean four wide?

(09-16-2019, 09:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 09:08 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]For the life of me, I can't understand why it takes this coaching staff so long to figure simple things out.

For instance, why are we still running it up the gut on first down? Scoring drives: FG in 2nd quarter, they threw on first down every time. 2nd FG, threw on first down 3 of 4 times. TD, threw on first down 4 of 5 times. Stop running it up the gut on first downs and let this kid get going. How about some quick bubble screens? RB screens? TE hitch? God anything other than running the ball.

1. We have a run first philosophy.
2. Flip was fired last year for throwing it too much.
3. We have a guard playing left tackle.
4. We already have one QB on IR.

This is why the game plan needs to change. With Foles out, everyone knows we're gonna run. Add in a depleted O-Line and that's a recipe for disaster. This team chose to go with Minshew as the backup knowing he might have to start, so show a little confidence in the guy, because he's all we got. Open up the playbook and see what he can do.

(09-16-2019, 01:04 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 09:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]1. We have a run first philosophy.
2. Flip was fired last year for throwing it too much.
3. We have a guard playing left tackle.
4. We already have one QB on IR.

This is why the game plan needs to change. With Foles out, everyone knows we're gonna run. Add in a depleted O-Line and that's a recipe for disaster. This team chose to go with Minshew as the backup knowing he might have to start, so show a little confidence in the guy, because he's all we got. Open up the playbook and see what he can do.

They passed 38 times and ran 21 yesterday. Let's not pretend they handcuffed the kid. 
I'd like to see a higher percentage of first down throws (50% yesterday exactly) - but I think they are showing faith in the QB and it could increase moving forward.

(09-16-2019, 01:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 01:04 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This is why the game plan needs to change. With Foles out, everyone knows we're gonna run. Add in a depleted O-Line and that's a recipe for disaster. This team chose to go with Minshew as the backup knowing he might have to start, so show a little confidence in the guy, because he's all we got. Open up the playbook and see what he can do.

They passed 38 times and ran 21 yesterday. Let's not pretend they handcuffed the kid. 
I'd like to see a higher percentage of first down throws (50% yesterday exactly) - but I think they are showing faith in the QB and it could increase moving forward.

I also think they'll start throwing more on first down now that Minshew has shown them more.
Finally getting an early lead would be huge, this team is build to play with a lead...all those run defense struggles would be mitigated and taking shots with Westbrook/Chark/Conley going deep on play action could be so much fun.
Let's hope to start well on Thursday.

(09-16-2019, 01:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 01:04 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]This is why the game plan needs to change. With Foles out, everyone knows we're gonna run. Add in a depleted O-Line and that's a recipe for disaster. This team chose to go with Minshew as the backup knowing he might have to start, so show a little confidence in the guy, because he's all we got. Open up the playbook and see what he can do.

They passed 38 times and ran 21 yesterday. Let's not pretend they handcuffed the kid. 
I'd like to see a higher percentage of first down throws (50% yesterday exactly) - but I think they are showing faith in the QB and it could increase moving forward.

How many of those throws were on the last two drives? 17 of the 38 passes I believe came from the last two drives. That means in the other 8 drives combined they threw it 21 times.

I'm not upset at running the ball because it's important to be balanced but this team has been so terrible at running the ball up the middle. And yet, that's exactly where they try to run it. Not to mention, Fournette is not good at running it out of shotgun/RPO and yet they still do that too. 

This coaching staffs inability to gameplan/adjust is their biggest downfall.

(09-16-2019, 01:56 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 01:09 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]They passed 38 times and ran 21 yesterday. Let's not pretend they handcuffed the kid. 
I'd like to see a higher percentage of first down throws (50% yesterday exactly) - but I think they are showing faith in the QB and it could increase moving forward.

How many of those throws were on the last two drives? 17 of the 38 passes I believe came from the last two drives. That means in the other 8 drives combined they threw it 21 times.

I'm not upset at running the ball because it's important to be balanced but this team has been so terrible at running the ball up the middle. And yet, that's exactly where they try to run it. Not to mention, Fournette is not good at running it out of shotgun/RPO and yet they still do that too. 

This coaching staffs inability to gameplan/adjust is their biggest downfall.

That sounds about right. 
Believe me, I'm not thrilled with all of the playcalling, but I get why they'd emphasize run in a defensive low-scoring game with a 6th round rookie behind center. It is not an unwise strategy. Could they have departed from it a bit sooner?  Absolutely. I'd have liked that.  
(Trying not to get Minshew murdered was also a concern here as he ran for his life quite a few times after quick pressure.)

(09-16-2019, 08:42 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 02:58 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]It was still a somewhat key moment in the game, and they should have been able to verify that it was a drop and would likely be overturned. Marrone should have challenged, but it might be more than that... perhaps the guy giving him the info was waffling on if it would surely be called... if so, maybe he needs to get better. Whatever the reason, it should have been challenged, and as the HC he bears the responsibility.

The bigger issue for me was the STUPID call to go for two at the end. If Coughlin were to fire Marrone and take over, I wouldn't object.

Well, you're certainly wrong. Challenge to an early call at midfield that you won't win is dumb and you always go for the win on the road.

"...that you won't win"? They'd have totally won that no doubt whatsoever.

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(09-16-2019, 09:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Did you guys notice Hayden when Marrone went to Ramsey? lol it's so obvious he lost the team and gets no respect from players, Hayden was like "get the  $%^& out and go coach" he even threw his drink haha

It's this kind of stuff that makes me wonder if this is the start of Marrone losing the locker.

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(09-16-2019, 10:20 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-16-2019, 10:11 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]And? It was clearly not working and it was also clear the moment wasn't too big for Minshew.

My point was that it takes this coaching staff far too long to make very simple and obvious changes.

The needed adjustments were literally staring them right in the face and they just continued to look baffled.

If you look at the talk in Minnesota last year just before they fired the guy who is now our OC, the talk was eerily similar.