Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(11-13-2019, 09:38 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 09:32 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]It's still part of the decision to start the rookie or the Super Bowl winning vet.

Shocked the Ravens let Flacco walk out the door. I mean he is a SB winning vet after all.

Totally the same situations..

Foles numbers vs pressure and blitzes vs Minshews are laid out here:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/13...nick-foles

For those (like me) who don't enjoy wading through the bull [BLEEP] hot takes and snark that are often dripping from BCC articles, fear not. This one is from the newly hired Demetrius Harvey and he apparently hasn't been mandated to change his (professional) style of writing yet.

(11-13-2019, 10:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Foles numbers vs pressure and blitzes vs Minshews are laid out here:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/13...nick-foles

For those (like me) who don't enjoy wading through the bull [BLEEP] hot takes and snark that are often dripping from BCC articles, fear not.  This one is from the newly hired Demetrius Harvey and he apparently hasn't been mandated to change his (professional) style of writing yet.

Ryan Day had about 8 articles in one day crying about the move to Foles.

It's pretty comical sometimes.

Every now and then though BCC has an article worth reading. The new guy is definitely one worth reading.
The weekly sack break downs are pretty good too.

Most everything else....meh.

(11-13-2019, 10:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Foles numbers vs pressure and blitzes vs Minshews are laid out here:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/13...nick-foles

For those (like me) who don't enjoy wading through the bull [BLEEP] hot takes and snark that are often dripping from BCC articles, fear not.  This one is from the newly hired Demetrius Harvey and he apparently hasn't been mandated to change his (professional) style of writing yet.

I know its almost considered a crime to comment before clicking, but how can we compare the two when Foles played like 11 snaps behind this line.  If this is Foles' stats on a different team vs Minshew on the Jags, then how does this make any sense at all.  Even if its Foles 11 snaps vs Minshew, that still doesnt make sense.

(11-13-2019, 10:58 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Foles numbers vs pressure and blitzes vs Minshews are laid out here:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/13...nick-foles

For those (like me) who don't enjoy wading through the bull [BLEEP] hot takes and snark that are often dripping from BCC articles, fear not.  This one is from the newly hired Demetrius Harvey and he apparently hasn't been mandated to change his (professional) style of writing yet.

I know its almost considered a crime to comment before clicking, but how can we compare the two when Foles played like 11 snaps behind this line.  If this is Foles' stats on a different team vs Minshew on the Jags then how does this make any sense at all.  Even if its Foles 11 snaps vs Minshew, that still doesnt make sense.

Completions under pressure are completions under pressure no matter which team's line is giving it up. 

He had a high number of passes released in under 3 seconds in philly and if he does that here those completion stats should be similar behind the Jags 2019 line.

(11-13-2019, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:58 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]I know its almost considered a crime to comment before clicking, but how can we compare the two when Foles played like 11 snaps behind this line.  If this is Foles' stats on a different team vs Minshew on the Jags then how does this make any sense at all.  Even if its Foles 11 snaps vs Minshew, that still doesnt make sense.

Completions under pressure are completions under pressure no matter which team's line is giving it up. 

He had a high number of passes released in under 3 seconds in philly and if he does that here those completion stats should be similar behind the Jags 2019 line.

I wish it was that easy to just xfer stats from players to different teams, but i'll let you have it. It's too early to even dispute this.

EDIT: let alone different seasons and being an actual starter

(11-13-2019, 10:58 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Foles numbers vs pressure and blitzes vs Minshews are laid out here:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/13...nick-foles

For those (like me) who don't enjoy wading through the bull [BLEEP] hot takes and snark that are often dripping from BCC articles, fear not.  This one is from the newly hired Demetrius Harvey and he apparently hasn't been mandated to change his (professional) style of writing yet.

I know its almost considered a crime to comment before clicking, but how can we compare the two when Foles played like 11 snaps behind this line.  If this is Foles' stats on a different team vs Minshew on the Jags, then how does this make any sense at all.  Even if its Foles 11 snaps vs Minshew, that still doesnt make sense.

(11-13-2019, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:58 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]I know its almost considered a crime to comment before clicking, but how can we compare the two when Foles played like 11 snaps behind this line.  If this is Foles' stats on a different team vs Minshew on the Jags then how does this make any sense at all.  Even if its Foles 11 snaps vs Minshew, that still doesnt make sense.

Completions under pressure are completions under pressure no matter which team's line is giving it up. 

He had a high number of passes released in under 3 seconds in philly and if he does that here those completion stats should be similar behind the Jags 2019 line.

People like to talk about the elite level of OL play Philly had...
but people fail to realize better QB play, quicker decision making, etc will always make an OL look better.
When Wentz was under center in 2018 the OL pressure numbers were way up.
Again this year, they don't look great.

QB play matters

(11-13-2019, 11:18 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Completions under pressure are completions under pressure no matter which team's line is giving it up. 

He had a high number of passes released in under 3 seconds in philly and if he does that here those completion stats should be similar behind the Jags 2019 line.

I wish it was that easy to just xfer stats from players to different teams, but i'll let you have it.  It's too early to even dispute this.

EDIT: let alone different seasons and being an actual starter

What you are characterizing here in bold is NOT at all what I did.  

It's not that black and white and I didn't say that it would be. 

One of these two QBs gets the ball out quicker than the other and has a better completion percentage when pressured and blitzed. 
We can't quantify exactly how those numbers will be affected behind a different offensive line for Foles, but we can see that he has an edge in this general skill set. 

You aren't letting me have a damn thing, BTW. I'm just giving you information and you are struggling to process it.

(11-13-2019, 11:22 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:58 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]I know its almost considered a crime to comment before clicking, but how can we compare the two when Foles played like 11 snaps behind this line.  If this is Foles' stats on a different team vs Minshew on the Jags, then how does this make any sense at all.  Even if its Foles 11 snaps vs Minshew, that still doesnt make sense.

(11-13-2019, 11:01 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Completions under pressure are completions under pressure no matter which team's line is giving it up. 

He had a high number of passes released in under 3 seconds in philly and if he does that here those completion stats should be similar behind the Jags 2019 line.

People like to talk about the elite level of OL play Philly had...
but people fail to realize better QB play, quicker decision making, etc will always make an OL look better.
When Wentz was under center in 2018 the OL pressure numbers were way up.
Again this year, they don't look great.

QB play matters

I will say that i think Nick is almost even or maybe even slightly better than post injury Wentz.  Before the injury, not so much.   Just like with Minshew, i cant say i'm confident in half of season worth of starts even showing good numbers.  I need to see him for a full season with our team/players before jumping for joy.  Not just raggin on him though.  I am like this with any player from any team.  I'm optimistic but i'm not jumping through the roof anymore after being burned by so many FA in the past.

(11-13-2019, 10:36 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Foles numbers vs pressure and blitzes vs Minshews are laid out here:
https://www.bigcatcountry.com/2019/11/13...nick-foles

For those (like me) who don't enjoy wading through the bull [BLEEP] hot takes and snark that are often dripping from BCC articles, fear not.  This one is from the newly hired Demetrius Harvey and he apparently hasn't been mandated to change his (professional) style of writing yet.

Ryan Day had about 8 articles in one day crying about the move to Foles.

It's pretty comical sometimes.

Every now and then though BCC has an article worth reading. The new guy is definitely one worth reading.
The weekly sack break downs are pretty good too.

Most everything else....meh.

I like BCC atleast they don't eat up every move the team makes and critiques stuff for the most part. The local reporters and radio people just go with everything the team does.

(11-13-2019, 11:52 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 11:18 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]I wish it was that easy to just xfer stats from players to different teams, but i'll let you have it.  It's too early to even dispute this.

EDIT: let alone different seasons and being an actual starter

What you are characterizing here in bold is NOT at all what I did.  

It's not that black and white and I didn't say that it would be. 

One of these two QBs gets the ball out quicker than the other and has a better completion percentage when pressured and blitzed. 
We can't quantify exactly how those numbers will be affected behind a different offensive line for Foles, but we can see that he has an edge in this general skill set. 

You aren't letting me have a damn thing, BTW. I'm just giving you information and you are struggling to process it.

Okay....He has the edge in alot of things honestly.  Time in the league, chemistry with different recievers in the league, time in the scheme we are running, He faced more defensive schemes than GM, more time standing in the pocket being less mobile.  I mean he isnt comparable to GM at all with all of that coming with him.  Age comes before beauty and with that age comes experience.  No one has ever said he isn't a veteran QB that does what a pocket QB should be able to do. Quick release to avoid sacks since he can't use mobility. He just isnt that great of a veteran pocket QB, but he does bring his knowledge to help the young ones.  Knowledge is what i respect and expect from him, that's where it stops though.  That may be enough to make a difference so we'll see.

(11-13-2019, 12:43 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:36 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Ryan Day had about 8 articles in one day crying about the move to Foles.

It's pretty comical sometimes.

Every now and then though BCC has an article worth reading. The new guy is definitely one worth reading.
The weekly sack break downs are pretty good too.

Most everything else....meh.

I like BCC at least they don't eat up every move the team makes and critiques stuff for the most part.  The local reporters and radio people just go with everything the team does.

I can appreciate that perspective. Much of the traditional local media doesn't challenge the team's decisions adequately at times. 

Unfortunately - many of the articles or blog posts at BCC do a very poor job with their critiques.  I've seen some really bad takes from their predominant staff writers and they seem bent toward bashing the team at times simply for the sake of doing so.  I just want a little actual substance with my snark and vitriol occasionally.

(11-13-2019, 12:43 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 10:36 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Ryan Day had about 8 articles in one day crying about the move to Foles.

It's pretty comical sometimes.

Every now and then though BCC has an article worth reading. The new guy is definitely one worth reading.
The weekly sack break downs are pretty good too.

Most everything else....meh.

I like BCC atleast they don't eat up every move the team makes and critiques stuff for the most part.  The local reporters and radio people just go with everything the team does.

Sure, but then they harp on stuff way too much, won't ever let go of their ego and when they are wrong rarely, if ever, admit it.

Ryan Day most recently had a meltdown posting about 8 anti-Foles/pro Minshew articles in a single day.
And Alfie is well known for his.... schtick.

(11-13-2019, 03:45 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 12:43 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]I like BCC atleast they don't eat up every move the team makes and critiques stuff for the most part.  The local reporters and radio people just go with everything the team does.

Sure, but then they harp on stuff way too much, won't ever let go of their ego and when they are wrong rarely, if ever, admit it.

Ryan Day most recently had a meltdown posting about 8 anti-Foles/pro Minshew articles in a single day.
And Alfie is well known for his.... schtick.

Name a site that does the opposite on a regular or even semi-regular basis.

There are some videos out on Twitter now after practice of both Nick and Gardner talking. They both seem supportive of each other and willing to help one another which is nice to see. Gardner said that he was disappointed that he wasn't named the starter but that he is grateful to have started half a season and got the experience. And that he will help Nick in any way he can and will try and grow as a QB. He also mentioned how he has experience with losing a starting position before and going to the bench (His junior year at ECU). And Nick also spoke well of Gardner and said he will continue to help him as well and that he appreciates the QB room they have.

I would have liked to have seen GM play more this season, and think he would have shown more growth as a QB. (In addition to the ups and down he experienced). But I think that overall he really did a do a nice job for a 6th round rookie and help keep the team in position to still make the playoffs. There are some backups out there, that are just there and have never really contributed much to a team. As evidenced by teams in the past who couldn't get hardly any help from their backups when their starters went down. Even when they had the opportunity to start.Gardner performed considerably better than them. He can be proud of how he played overall and can take even more pride in that if the Jags do make the playoffs.

Some of Nick's fans particularly the ones that are just his fans,, who abandoned the Eagles when he left and who are not really fans of the Jags are annoying. The way they act regarding Gardner is obnoxious. But Nick seems like a really nice guy, a good leader and a good mentor. I believe he provided better mentoring to Gardner than he would have gotten on a lot of teams. I hope that Nick performs well and that he can help lead the Jags to the playoffs.

I'm glad they both have the attitudes that they have. And hopefully the team will be able to perform well during this second half and make the playoffs. I do think they have a chance.

(11-13-2019, 04:10 PM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ]There are some videos out on Twitter now after practice of both Nick and Gardner talking. They both seem supportive of each other and willing to help one another which is nice to see. Gardner said that he was disappointed that he wasn't named the starter but that he is grateful to have started half a season and got the experience. And that he will help Nick in any way he can and will try and grow as a QB. He also mentioned how he has experience with losing a starting position before and going to the bench (His junior year at ECU). And Nick also spoke well of Gardner and said he will continue to help him as well and that he appreciates the QB room they have.

I would have liked to have seen GM play more this season, but I think that overall he really did a do a nice job for a 6th round rookie and help keep the team in position to still make the playoffs. There are some backups out there, that are just there and have never really contributed much to a team. As evidenced by teams in the past who couldn't get hardly any help from their backups when their starters went down. Even when they had the opportunity to start.Gardner performed considerably better than them.  He can be proud of how he played overall and can take even more pride in that if the Jags do make the playoffs.

Some of Nick's fans particularly the ones that are just his fans,, who abandoned the Eagles when he left and who are not really fans of the Jags are irritating. The way they act regarding Gardner is obnoxious. But Nick seems like a really nice guy, a good leader and a good mentor. I believe he provided better mentoring to Gardner than he would have gotten on a lot of teams. I hope that Nick peforms well and that he can help lead the Jags to the playoffs.

I'm glad they both have the attitudes that they have. And hopefully the team will be able to perform well during this second half and make the playoffs. I do think they have a chance.

Kudos.

(11-13-2019, 04:10 PM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ]There are some videos out on Twitter now after practice of both Nick and Gardner talking. They both seem supportive of each other and willing to help one another which is nice to see. Gardner said that he was disappointed that he wasn't named the starter but that he is grateful to have started half a season and got the experience. And that he will help Nick in any way he can and will try and grow as a QB. He also mentioned how he has experience with losing a starting position before and going to the bench (His junior year at ECU). And Nick also spoke well of Gardner and said he will continue to help him as well and that he appreciates the QB room they have.

I would have liked to have seen GM play more this season, and think he would have shown more growth as a QB. (In addition to the ups and down he experienced). But I think that overall he really did a do a nice job for a 6th round rookie and help keep the team in position to still make the playoffs. There are some backups out there, that are just there and have never really contributed much to a team. As evidenced by teams in the past who couldn't get hardly any help from their backups when their starters went down. Even when they had the opportunity to start.Gardner performed considerably better than them.  He can be proud of how he played overall and can take even more pride in that if the Jags do make the playoffs.

Not to take away from Gardner at all, but it's probably easier for him to give up the reins knowing that he proved himself enough where in a year or two he will definitely be given another opportunity.  And if Foles gets hurt again, it's possible he could go in and take the starting job away for good next time.  It's not like this is his last chance.

If Foles is so good then why was he a backup after a 27 and 3 season

(11-13-2019, 11:52 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2019, 11:18 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]I wish it was that easy to just xfer stats from players to different teams, but i'll let you have it.  It's too early to even dispute this.

EDIT: let alone different seasons and being an actual starter

What you are characterizing here in bold is NOT at all what I did.  

It's not that black and white and I didn't say that it would be. 

One of these two QBs gets the ball out quicker than the other and has a better completion percentage when pressured and blitzed. 
We can't quantify exactly how those numbers will be affected behind a different offensive line for Foles, but we can see that he has an edge in this general skill set. 

You aren't letting me have a damn thing, BTW. I'm just giving you information and you are struggling to process it.

Part of the issue with this article is the fact that it is comparing different teams. I see the stats but it almost seems like wishful thinking. One could argue that Philly’s receivers and linemen were superior or better coached. The receivers could have been better at reading blitz and running hot routes or were just better athletes. The linemen could’ve been better at their assignments or, once again, better athletes.  

I get that the league lives and dies on QB play and it is a fun position to watch but the QB is a very dependent position. They are far from being plug and play.  There’s always the chicken and egg thing. Can a QB make a line look better? Yes. Can a line make a QB look better? Also yes. Perhaps Minshew made the offensive line better with his scrambling. Or maybe Foles WILL make them better with decisive throws. Maybe Minshew misread coverages. However, those decisive throws don’t mean much if the receivers do not make the right reads and break off.

 I feel this entire article has to be read through rose colored homer glasses. It’s almost like a Brady vs Montana comparison in that you really cannot make that comparison accurately.

(11-13-2019, 01:06 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Ding! Ding! We have a winner. The Future is now and his name is Gardner. Foles is QB Purgatory and not much more.

I do not think that an honest, unbiased evaluation of our situation would come to the conclusion that the future is now for this team.