(12-02-2019, 12:37 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 12:35 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]None of our opinions are right.
That's why they're opinions and not facts.
Agreed.
(12-02-2019, 12:36 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I don't care about your Robinson take..you said Hand was a joke and didn't know he was injured all season.
I did, but you act like he had a great 2018 season. He only had 3 sacks. If the Lions are so confident in his abilities, why are they so desperate to find a new edge rusher? It's almost assured that they will take a DE in one of the first two rounds, if they don't address it in free agency.
He's a two gapping interior player not an edge rusher....
I agree they need edge rush badly
(12-02-2019, 12:43 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 12:37 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed.
I did, but you act like he had a great 2018 season. He only had 3 sacks. If the Lions are so confident in his abilities, why are they so desperate to find a new edge rusher? It's almost assured that they will take a DE in one of the first two rounds, if they don't address it in free agency.
He's a two gapping interior player not an edge rusher....
I agree they need DE and edge rush badly
They move him around, but he plays mostly DE.
(12-02-2019, 12:47 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 12:43 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]He's a two gapping interior player not an edge rusher....
I agree they need DE and edge rush badly
They move him around, but he plays mostly DE.
It's a 3-4 hybrid. They're asking him to play 3 tech, 4i and 5 tech at best eating up blocks, not edge rushing at 295 lbs.
He's not an edge rusher. DE in a 4-3 works differently
This is what I was talking about above lol
(12-02-2019, 12:53 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 12:47 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]They move him around, but he plays mostly DE.
It's a 3-4 hybrid. They're asking him to play 3 tech, 4i and 5 tech at best eating up blocks, not edge rushing at 295 lbs.
He's not an edge rusher. DE in a 4-3 works differently
This is what I was talking about above lol
Gosh.. you're both pretty!
(12-02-2019, 12:53 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 12:47 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]They move him around, but he plays mostly DE.
It's a 3-4 hybrid. They're asking him to play 3 tech, 4i and 5 tech at best eating up blocks, not edge rushing at 295 lbs.
He's not an edge rusher. DE in a 4-3 works differently
This is what I was talking about above lol
A 3-4 DE still plays on the edge. He's still a DE, no matter what way you look at it. He's a 5 technique. I know they are asked to do different things than a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB, but for God's sake, a 5 technique still have to have some pass rush ability. Do you not get that? You're just trying to flip things around to fit your narrative. We can have differing opinions without you saying you're always right.
(12-02-2019, 01:02 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 12:53 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It's a 3-4 hybrid. They're asking him to play 3 tech, 4i and 5 tech at best eating up blocks, not edge rushing at 295 lbs.
He's not an edge rusher. DE in a 4-3 works differently
This is what I was talking about above lol
Gosh.. you're both pretty!
He thinks he's prettier.
(12-02-2019, 01:12 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 12:53 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]It's a 3-4 hybrid. They're asking him to play 3 tech, 4i and 5 tech at best eating up blocks, not edge rushing at 295 lbs.
He's not an edge rusher. DE in a 4-3 works differently
This is what I was talking about above lol
A 3-4 DE still plays on the edge. He's still a DE, no matter what way you look at it. He's a 5 technique. I know they are asked to do different things than a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB, but for God's sake, a 5 technique still have to have some pass rush ability. Do you not get that? You're just trying to flip things around to fit your narrative. We can have differing opinions without you saying you're always right.
No in a 3-4 formation the edge rush is the guys on the outside. You were trying to say Hand isn't good because they still need edge rush when they are very different roles in the lions scheme.
Sure, having a 5 tech with pass rush in that scheme is a bonus, it's just not what they are asked to do nor is it the required skillset.
They need edge rush, they don't need more Interior gap eaters like Hand, Snacks, Robinson etc etc.
And nah I'm just telling you when you are incorrect. Much like when you said CMC would be a bad RB becuase he's white and I called you out for it
(12-02-2019, 01:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 01:12 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]A 3-4 DE still plays on the edge. He's still a DE, no matter what way you look at it. He's a 5 technique. I know they are asked to do different things than a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB, but for God's sake, a 5 technique still have to have some pass rush ability. Do you not get that? You're just trying to flip things around to fit your narrative. We can have differing opinions without you saying you're always right.
No in a 3-4 formation the edge rush is the guys on the outside. You were trying to say Hand isn't good because they still need edge rush when they are very different roles in the lions scheme.
Sure, having a 5 tech with pass rush in that scheme is a bonus, it's just not what they are asked to do nor is it the required skillset.
They need edge rush, they don't need more Interior gap eaters like Hand, Snacks, Robinson etc etc.
And nah I'm just telling you when you are incorrect. Much like when you said CMC would be a bad RB becuase he's white and I called you out for it
Again, that is your opinion. It isn't a fact. I happen to believe 5 techniques, need pass rush ability. That is my opinion. Do the Lions need OLB's as well, of course, but I believe they also need better pass rushing 5 techniques as well. What is you're deal, always having to be right about everything? This board is nothing but opinions. No one is right and no one is wrong. Period.
????????????
(12-02-2019, 01:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 01:19 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]No in a 3-4 formation the edge rush is the guys on the outside. You were trying to say Hand isn't good because they still need edge rush when they are very different roles in the lions scheme.
Sure, having a 5 tech with pass rush in that scheme is a bonus, it's just not what they are asked to do nor is it the required skillset.
They need edge rush, they don't need more Interior gap eaters like Hand, Snacks, Robinson etc etc.
And nah I'm just telling you when you are incorrect. Much like when you said CMC would be a bad RB becuase he's white and I called you out for it
Again, that is your opinion. It isn't a fact. I happen to believe 5 techniques, need pass rush ability. That is my opinion. Do the Lions need OLB's as well, of course, but I believe they also need better pass rushing 5 techniques as well. What is you're deal, always having to be right about everything? This board is nothing but opinions. No one is right and no one is wrong. Period.
????????????
My argument is against your assertion Hand plays edge and his poor play is why they need more edge rush. That's simply not based in reality. They need edge rush independent from Hand (who has barely played this season)
I agree they need edge rush. Their 5 tech is 2 gapping like 90% of the time so he has to be a run stopper far more than anything else.
You regularly make things up as you go a long so people call you out for it.
Going into today's matchup we should be rooting for Falcons to take down Carolina, Bengals over Browns, Redskins over Packers, Lions over Vikings, Dolphins over Jets, Cards over Steelers.
Not many of those happens. But we have moved to #7 !!
(12-08-2019, 08:33 PM)newporttom Wrote: [ -> ]Not many of those happens. But we have moved to #7 !!
Another top 5 pick in route. Joe Burrow?
(12-09-2019, 10:42 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 08:33 PM)newporttom Wrote: [ -> ]Not many of those happens. But we have moved to #7 !!
Another top 5 pick in route. Joe Burrow?
Burrow is going #1 overall to Cincy. If they pass and go Chase Young, which would be a mistake, imo, then he won't make it past the Phins.
Perhaps we can trade up with the G-Men though if Cincy does pass.
I'm not dead set on QB but if there's a chance to get Burrow, I'm all for it.
Otherwise we'll be playing our way into a top 5 pick I think (just need a couple teams to win another game or two)
and we'll have our pick of Derrick Brown, Andrew Thomas, or Okudah.
(12-08-2019, 08:33 PM)newporttom Wrote: [ -> ]Not many of those happens. But we have moved to #7 !!
3 weeks left, so we should be able to get to #4, right!?!?!
(12-09-2019, 02:56 PM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (12-08-2019, 08:33 PM)newporttom Wrote: [ -> ]Not many of those happens. But we have moved to #7 !!
3 weeks left, so we should be able to get to #4, right!?!?!
We'll need Detroit, AZ, and either Miami or Washington to win one more game. And even then, not sure what the tiebreaker scenarios are.
Miami has CIN & NYG left so that’s nice. Giants and Skins play each other. Detroit has DEN & TB. AZ unlikely to win anymore games
(12-09-2019, 01:29 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2019, 10:42 AM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Another top 5 pick in route. Joe Burrow?
Burrow is going #1 overall to Cincy. If they pass and go Chase Young, which would be a mistake, imo, then he won't make it past the Phins.
Perhaps we can trade up with the G-Men though if Cincy does pass.
I'm not dead set on QB but if there's a chance to get Burrow, I'm all for it.
Otherwise we'll be playing our way into a top 5 pick I think (just need a couple teams to win another game or two)
and we'll have our pick of Derrick Brown, Andrew Thomas, or Okudah.
I love Derrick Brown, but Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs would be hard to pass on. I love Okudah, but we have way bigger needs than CB. If all of those guys are on the board, he's my last choice. If Burrow, Thomas, Wirfs and Brown are gone though, I gladly take Okudah, but I'd be tempted by Tua. I'm on the fence with him. I see the undeniable talent, but his health scares me.
(12-09-2019, 06:37 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2019, 01:29 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Burrow is going #1 overall to Cincy. If they pass and go Chase Young, which would be a mistake, imo, then he won't make it past the Phins.
Perhaps we can trade up with the G-Men though if Cincy does pass.
I'm not dead set on QB but if there's a chance to get Burrow, I'm all for it.
Otherwise we'll be playing our way into a top 5 pick I think (just need a couple teams to win another game or two)
and we'll have our pick of Derrick Brown, Andrew Thomas, or Okudah.
I love Derrick Brown, but Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs would be hard to pass on. I love Okudah, but we have way bigger needs than CB. If all of those guys are on the board, he's my last choice. If Burrow, Thomas, Wirfs and Brown are gone though, I gladly take Okudah, but I'd be tempted by Tua. I'm on the fence with him. I see the undeniable talent, but his health scares me.
Yeah I didn't put them in any specific order. I expect Thomas to be off the board. If he's there, you definitely take the franchise LT and push Robinson inside to OG.
Is Wirfs good enough to take over Derrick Brown (I know you're dead set on getting the DT from Buffalo, but no guarantees we can/will sign him, NT is a gaping hole on this D)
I've seen a few scouting reports that say Wirfs is a RT only at the NFL level.
Ideally first pick is Thomas or Brown and then hopefully a guy like Fulton is available around 20 when we use Rams pick.
But if Brown is our selection early... the next 2 picks should be OL, either OT or C/G.
I'm wondering what the possibility of getting Trent Williams in the off season will be, he's adamant about not playing for the Skins and I wonder if he could be had for a 2nd or some package of players/picks.
(12-09-2019, 06:37 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2019, 01:29 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Burrow is going #1 overall to Cincy. If they pass and go Chase Young, which would be a mistake, imo, then he won't make it past the Phins.
Perhaps we can trade up with the G-Men though if Cincy does pass.
I'm not dead set on QB but if there's a chance to get Burrow, I'm all for it.
Otherwise we'll be playing our way into a top 5 pick I think (just need a couple teams to win another game or two)
and we'll have our pick of Derrick Brown, Andrew Thomas, or Okudah.
I love Derrick Brown, but Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs would be hard to pass on. I love Okudah, but we have way bigger needs than CB. If all of those guys are on the board, he's my last choice. If Burrow, Thomas, Wirfs and Brown are gone though, I gladly take Okudah, but I'd be tempted by Tua. I'm on the fence with him. I see the undeniable talent, but his health scares me.
His health scares me some too but I'm so tired of mediocrity. Draft Tua as the potential homerun. Add in Biadasz with the 2nd first rounder. Add Devonta Smith from Bama in round 2.
(12-10-2019, 12:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2019, 06:37 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I love Derrick Brown, but Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs would be hard to pass on. I love Okudah, but we have way bigger needs than CB. If all of those guys are on the board, he's my last choice. If Burrow, Thomas, Wirfs and Brown are gone though, I gladly take Okudah, but I'd be tempted by Tua. I'm on the fence with him. I see the undeniable talent, but his health scares me.
His health scares me some too but I'm so tired of mediocrity. Draft Tua as the potential homerun. Add in Biadasz with the 2nd first rounder. Add Devonta Smith from Bama in round 2.
If we put together a really good OL. I'd feel much better about Tua.
Thing is... if we use #7 overall on Tua, we're passing on really good line talent.
If we could somehow get him with our #20/21 pick from the Rams... I'd actually be very good with that.
I just don't think he lasts that long with teams like Tampa and Bolts picking before that.
Tua behind our current line has a broken ankle, clavicle, or dislocated shoulder before week 8.
(12-10-2019, 11:41 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2019, 06:37 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I love Derrick Brown, but Andrew Thomas or Tristan Wirfs would be hard to pass on. I love Okudah, but we have way bigger needs than CB. If all of those guys are on the board, he's my last choice. If Burrow, Thomas, Wirfs and Brown are gone though, I gladly take Okudah, but I'd be tempted by Tua. I'm on the fence with him. I see the undeniable talent, but his health scares me.
Yeah I didn't put them in any specific order. I expect Thomas to be off the board. If he's there, you definitely take the franchise LT and push Robinson inside to OG.
Is Wirfs good enough to take over Derrick Brown (I know you're dead set on getting the DT from Buffalo, but no guarantees we can/will sign him, NT is a gaping hole on this D)
I've seen a few scouting reports that say Wirfs is a RT only at the NFL level.
Ideally first pick is Thomas or Brown and then hopefully a guy like Fulton is available around 20 when we use Rams pick.
But if Brown is our selection early... the next 2 picks should be OL, either OT or C/G.
I'm wondering what the possibility of getting Trent Williams in the off season will be, he's adamant about not playing for the Skins and I wonder if he could be had for a 2nd or some package of players/picks.
I've watched Wirfs move to LT when Alaric Jackson was hurt and he's better than Jackson, certainly more consistent, but he's not as good as Thomas. Wirfs can play either OT position and has. I don't know why they keep him at RT, although IMO, Alaric Jackson lacks the strength to face off with the bull rushers he'd likely see at RT. With that said, I want Derrick Brown.......... alot. My ideal draft would be to sign Jordan Phillips in free agency and to draft Derrick Brown with that first pick in round one. We'd finally have the beef in the middle of the D-Line to fix that run defense as well as players to collapse the middle of the pocket, allowing our DE's to get more penetration on the outside. I also believe the lack of a pass rushing DT is contributing to our lower sack numbers from the edge. If we could add Phillips and Brown, that would be ideal. I'd them used the second of our two first rounders to add a true LT. I really, really like USC OT Austin Jackson. He's made huge strides this year and if he decides to enter the draft, this would be a perfect spot to get him. We'll just have to see if he declares.
In round 2. I gotta go OG and there are several guys who should be available that I like a lot. I like Fulton, but IMO, CB is not nearly as big a need in the early rounds. I also have some CB's targeted in the 4-5 round area like Lamar Jackson of Nebraska, DeMarkus Acy of Missouri, Michael Ojemudia of Iowa and Jeff Gladney of TCU. I think they are being really overlooked right now.
I think Washington is determined to get at least a first round pick for Williams. At this point, with him being out of football for so long, I'm wondering what kind of shape he's actually in. He's also on the wrong side of 30 and that is when a lot of OT's start to break down. I think we'd be better off to draft a guy, as long as we stay away from Alabama OT's. They produce good NFL RT's but not many LT's.