Sometimes I feel like the Dutch Boy plugging holes. "We have to draft a run stopper in the middle of the d-line". After today I think the O-Line has got to be a priority. Seems like both our high second round picks at tackle got abused today.
Now I wouldn't mind seeing both first rounders on guys like Thomas or Wirfs.
Yannick and Linder were apparently in each others faces in the locker room after the game.
The team just needs to start drafting the best player with every pick, don't make picks based on perceived need, just start trying to get the best players. Picking mediocre players to occupy depth chat slow is how you have decades of futility like the Jaguars have done.
So really I guess the first move the Jaguars need to make is getting a GM that can actually evaluate talent and pick players without thinking about perceived needs.
(12-01-2019, 06:14 PM)newporttom Wrote: [ -> ]Sometimes I feel like the Dutch Boy plugging holes. "We have to draft a run stopper in the middle of the d-line". After today I think the O-Line has got to be a priority. Seems like both our high second round picks at tackle got abused today.
Now I wou;dn't mind seeing both first rounders on guys like Thomas or Wirfs.
It's the coaching.
Draft picks, especially the OL, need to be developed, and the Jags are really bad at that. Robinson, Taylor, and Cann were all highly regarded draft prospects. Even if you want to believe that the Jags missed on the evaluation of all three, Norwell and Linder were Pro Bowlers who declined badly here. That points the blame finger at Jags coaching.
(12-01-2019, 06:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The team just needs to start drafting the best player with every pick, don't make picks based on perceived need, just start trying to get the best players. Picking mediocre players to occupy depth chat slow is how you have decades of futility like the Jaguars have done.
So really I guess the first move the Jaguars need to make is getting a GM that can actually evaluate talent and pick players without thinking about perceived needs.
So if there is a Left Tackle at our first pick in the draft that you rate at a 89 out of 100 but there's also a QB rated at 91 - you want to select the quarterback because he's technically a better player?
(12-01-2019, 06:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2019, 06:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The team just needs to start drafting the best player with every pick, don't make picks based on perceived need, just start trying to get the best players. Picking mediocre players to occupy depth chat slow is how you have decades of futility like the Jaguars have done.
So really I guess the first move the Jaguars need to make is getting a GM that can actually evaluate talent and pick players without thinking about perceived needs.
So if there is a Left Tackle at our first pick in the draft that you rate at a 89 out of 100 but there's also a QB rated at 91 - you want to select the quarterback because he's technically a better player?
At QB, absolutely. If it's a linebacker or safety or something that is graded slightly worse, but in the same tier overall, then sure go with the LT.
(12-01-2019, 06:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2019, 06:20 PM)SeldomRite Wrote: [ -> ]The team just needs to start drafting the best player with every pick, don't make picks based on perceived need, just start trying to get the best players. Picking mediocre players to occupy depth chat slow is how you have decades of futility like the Jaguars have done.
So really I guess the first move the Jaguars need to make is getting a GM that can actually evaluate talent and pick players without thinking about perceived needs.
So if there is a Left Tackle at our first pick in the draft that you rate at a 89 out of 100 but there's also a QB rated at 91 - you want to select the quarterback because he's technically a better player?
Essentially yes, though positional value would need to enter things, too. A running back shouldn't be taken to five pretty much ever, for example.
Said it earlier.
Land Wirfs for LT. Land Biadasz for C. Move Linder to RG. Move Robinson to LG.
It's a start. It'll cost you both of your first round picks in April but Foles and Minshew need time in the pocket.
LT - Wirfs
LG - Robinson
C - Biadasz
RG - Linder
RT - Taylor
As Jags02 pointed out though. Need coaches here to fix what we have on the roster still. Realistically they won't land two lineman in RD1. At least not IMHO.
But good coaching could salvage Norwell and Linder. Maybe save Robinson.
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Draft some big men. On both sides.
Oline is far more important than QB unless you have yourself a Brady,Brees Manning type
(12-01-2019, 07:28 PM)lastonealive Wrote: [ -> ]Draft some big men. On both sides.
Oline is far more important than QB unless you have yourself a Brady,Brees Manning type
Tristan Wirfs
Alex Leatherwood
Tyler Biadasz
Trey Adams
Creed Humphrey
Solomon Kindley
Ben Bredeson
Mekhi Becton
Darryl Williams
Hakeem Adeniji
Honestly, between having potentially two of the top twenty overall selections and having picks in the low 40s and 70s.
I would be shocked if they didn't walk out of this draft coming up with at least two of those guys listed above.
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We drafted Robinson, Linder, Cann, and Taylor. We got great value with Robinson, Linder, and Taylor.
Unless we go sign a veteran free agent, then we won’t get any better. We need to target a guard, that’s for sure. But I think we’re stuck with what we have in Robinson and Taylor at bookends. They just need to play better.
Cann and Norwell need to be upgraded. I still can’t believe Norwell just cashed his check and packed it in.
(12-01-2019, 09:38 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]We got great value with Robinson and Taylor.
Or maybe the league let them fall farther than expected because they saw how heavy their feet were and that they would likely be liabilities in pass protection.
(12-01-2019, 10:13 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2019, 09:38 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]We got great value with Robinson and Taylor.
Or maybe the league let them fall farther than expected because they saw how heavy their feet were and that they would likely be liabilities in pass protection.
Fair points.
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(12-01-2019, 06:23 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-01-2019, 06:14 PM)newporttom Wrote: [ -> ]Sometimes I feel like the Dutch Boy plugging holes. "We have to draft a run stopper in the middle of the d-line". After today I think the O-Line has got to be a priority. Seems like both our high second round picks at tackle got abused today.
Now I wou;dn't mind seeing both first rounders on guys like Thomas or Wirfs.
It's the coaching.
Draft picks, especially the OL, need to be developed, and the Jags are really bad at that. Robinson, Taylor, and Cann were all highly regarded draft prospects. Even if you want to believe that the Jags missed on the evaluation of all three, Norwell and Linder were Pro Bowlers who declined badly here. That points the blame finger at Jags coaching.
I agree. I've been saying a while that quality talent on Oline is dropping across the league. LT's would be in your top 3 paid guys.
So many college teams play spread or a particular style and there seems to be areas we think we can improve them on with coaching but like you say, we've been really bad at it.
Who knows where we will be staff wise come April but if a player has played spread all his college career, you have to know hes not got much experience in run blocking, pulling, second level blocks etc. Find guys that fit what we want to run.
Brandon Linder sucks. No command over our front line and a bad attitude.
(12-01-2019, 10:39 PM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]Brandon Linder sucks. No command over our front line and a bad attitude.
All the more reason to move him to RG and select Biadasz in RD1 with the Rams pick or try and trade back and land him since it's not the 'sexy" pick for some of you.
Biadasz can play in the NFL. He's been awesome for the Badgers. Taylor has fun running behind him. He's also handled many pass blocking situations one-on-one.
Ideally they land him with the Rams pick though. Maybe land Trey Washington or Tristan Wirfs to man the LT position early. Just depends. If they never win another game they could be in prime position to land Andrew Thomas. Which would be HUGE.
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I could totally see our OL next year looking like...
LT Cam Robinson
LG Andrew Norwell
C - free agent or 1st/2nd round rookie
RG Brandon Linder
RT Jawaan Taylor
I'm expecting Cam and Jawaan to improve considerably this offseason.
(12-01-2019, 06:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]So if there is a Left Tackle at our first pick in the draft that you rate at a 89 out of 100 but there's also a QB rated at 91 - you want to select the quarterback because he's technically a better player?
I'd go for a trade back by a few spots to milk the QB premium out of the trade, but that's just me.
(12-02-2019, 02:27 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm expecting Cam and Jawaan to improve considerably this offseason.
We said that about Cam last year, and he's been getting beat like a redheaded stepchild all season.
(12-02-2019, 02:34 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (12-02-2019, 02:27 AM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm expecting Cam and Jawaan to improve considerably this offseason.
We said that about Cam last year, and he's been getting beat like a redheaded stepchild all season.
Cam does need to improve a lot, but the guy has plenty of talent where I feel better coaching might salvage him. We can't fix everything every year, especially with so many players looking at extensions, so I'm not ready to panic at LT. They need to invest time, not money, into the LT position by working on getting the best out of Cam. LT is a tough position to play, and he's still young.
I didn't like Robinson or Taylor when we drafted them, but I was told I was wrong. Both have slow feet and bad footwork. Taylor just gets shoved around. I am a firm believer that OT, especially LT is the cornerstone of the team and must be taken in round 1. There is a shortage of really good LT's in the NFL and the truly good ones go fast.If you think you've found one in round 2, that is a guy 31 other teams found major flaws in. If you have problems at LT especially, you need to draft one with a first round selection. Right now, I'd definitely draft one in round 1. My personal choice would be to take DT Derrick Brown with our first selection in round 1 and take OT Trey Adams with the other.