Quote:The reason is simple, a fresh (unbiased) set of eyes. There's no doubt that David Caldwell has done a good job in bringing in talent, however, if he's "missed" on his most important draft pick in Blake Bortles, will he be able to swallow his pride, admit the mistake and move on in a timely fashion? This is a situation that doesn't get talked about enough, and I think it's the most crucial. We all would like to believe that Blake will shore up his mechanics, improve his accuracy, ball placement, and decision making, but what if he doesn't? It'd be borderline-insane to commit (long term) to a guy with so many fundamental flaws, as a huge Bortles fan this hurts to think about, but we have to be realistic and honest in our assessments if we ever wish to get over the proverbial "hump" as a franchise.
This situation is similar to the Gene Smith/Blaine Gabbert conundrum just a few years ago, I'm not trying to compare Smith to Caldwell or Gabbert to Bortles, it's obvious that Caldwell/Bortles are better, but the situation(s) are similar. Gene Smith forced his "handpicked" QB onto Mike Mularkery (there's no doubt the job wasn't as attractive because of the QB situation which likely limited the coaching pool), it turned out Gabbert wasn't the guy which ultimately cost Mularkey his job, my question is, how many coaches will be willing to attach their wagons to the Blake Bortles train? It reminds me of a comment Daniel Jeremiah (a guy I respect because he's well connected) made in the off-season, I'm paraphrasing here but was along the lines of "people around the league aren't as high on Bortles as fans/fantasy community", at the time I adamantly disagreed but what if he's right?
Blake's play so far this year hasn't exactly inspired confidence, if Blake continues to play this bad, it would be a disservice to the organization and the fans to not go into this off-season with an unbiased set of eyes, I'd like to believe David will be able to swallow his pride/ego, but history tells us GM's rarely do that. If Shad decides to keep David (this is the likely scenario), then it's incumbent upon Shad to make sure that David is looking at this situation with unbiased eyes. If Blake isn't the guy long-term, I don't think this organization is in a position to delay the inevitable. The best case scenario of course is Blake dispelling this situation by playing lights out the next 13 games, I have my doubts there. The absolute worst case scenario is Blake continues to play like crap, David forces "his" QB onto the next head-coach, Blake isn't the guy long term which results in David and our next head coach both getting the axe from Shad in 2017/2018, which has a variety of different consequences with one of them being (potentially) missing out on another QB in free agency (a Jimmy Garoppolo/Josh McDaniels pairing comes to mind) or in the draft. Blake needs to play better and play better NOW because a lot is on the line not only in the interim, but long-term as well.
You can be a decent general manager and find your Quarterback but miss out in the coaching department. A few examples would be Atlanta with Matt Ryan and Alex Smith during his time in San Francisco. Again, you'd think the way this kid is getting his teeth kicked in by these armchair talent scouts that he's been our Quarterback longer than Byron Leftwich or has the pocket awareness of Blaine Gabbert and the courage of a cowardly Lion. He's just now coming off his 32nd career start in year three under two different offensive coordinators. I'd like to hope and think that Khan learned from Weaver's mistakes with Gene Smith and the Jack Del Rio / Mike Mularkey debacle. Caldwell needs to remain intact. And he needs to hire a coaching staff who can work with Bortles and correct the running game and overall offensive lineman play. This is why I keep saying we need a coach like Jim Harbaugh. Someone who has shown he can win with two different Quarterbacks during his tenure with the 49ers. I just don't know any other coach out there that's capable of that.
Now, what Caldwell could do. And I think it's a valid and viable option. In 2017 going into training camp with a new coaching staff. I think you give that staff the benefit of the doubt and you tell them. "Look, I really want you to give my guy a shot first, but, I will look into investing either a decent amount of cap space in a possible replacement through free agency or at least invest a 2ND or 3RD selection on a guy that could challenge him this year and into 2018 if needed". I think that's very fair. And I also think it's the safest route to take. It's panned out for teams like Philadelphia and Washington. You're seeing it now pay off for other teams like Dallas and New England. There's nothing wrong with investing a high end selection on a back-up QB with the potential to take the spotlight over or flip him to another football team that's desperate down the road.
But before all of that. I want to see this running game improve. And I want to see the blocking improve up front before we completely abandon and give up on Bortles like we did with Gabbert. I don't get that same feeling of despair with Caldwell and Bortles like I did with Smith and Gabbert. Two completely different circumstances.
In Bortles defense he did hit 12 out of 13 passes at the end of the first half and 3rd qtr with two touchdown passes.
The batted balls are what killed us.
The last pic was him throwing it up because it was the end of the game.
Quote:Young and raw QB has a typical rookie year with flaws
Young and raw QB shows great improvement in year 2
Young QB regresses during two of three games in year 3
Fire GM
---------------------------
THAT ^^ makes sense to you?????
If a new coach doesn't believe he can be a franchise level QB after seeing tape from this complete season, I can see drafting a QB.
Firing the GM over a guy that showed a lot of promise but couldn't exorcise all his demons.... that doesn't compute with me.
I would just respectfully suggest a more descriptive edit on year 2:
"Young and raw qb has a great statistical year (though too many turnovers) where poor mechanics, bad throws/accuracy, and poor decisions persist but are masked by historically poor competition and a disproportionate amount of great plays by 2 up and coming receivers made largely during garbage time. A fan base, along with an unhealthy amount of local media complicity, SO eager to validate they finally have their first franchise qb since Mark Brunell, largely buys in to qb while many outside of Jacksonville don't."
Sorry, I wanted to buy in too but my eyes told me all along we were fooling ourselves. My fear was we would see exactly what we are seeing this year and have this debate, when it really shouldn't be a debate at all. We are just wasting more time at this point. Really still hope I'm wrong but so far it is going EXACTLY as I feared.
Quote:I would just respectfully suggest a more descriptive edit on year 2:
"Young and raw qb has a great statistical year (though too many turnovers) where poor mechanics, bad throws/accuracy, and poor decisions persist but are masked by historically poor competition and a disproportionate amount of great plays by 2 up and coming receivers made largely during garbage time. A fan base, along with an unhealthy amount of local media complicity, SO eager to validate they finally have their first franchise qb since Mark Brunell, largely buys in to qb while many outside of Jacksonville don't."
Sorry, I wanted to buy in too but my eyes told me all along we were fooling ourselves. My fear was we would see exactly what we are seeing this year and have this debate, when it really shouldn't be a debate at all. We are just wasting more time at this point. Really still hope I'm wrong but so far it is going EXACTLY as I feared.
Lots of people are pushing this narrative.
And it's an easy narrative that makes sense, but there's more to it than that.
He really did improve his mechanics and strung together periods of better decision making in 2015. It happened. It's not a myth. He regressed at times during the season but overall showed improvement.
Of course having the Allens making great catches helped.
But.... Garbage time??
Utter falsehood. He had about 400 yards worth of garbage time production last year. And, yes I've analyzed it. The jags were in all but 4 games late in the fourth. This garbage time talk is inaccurate and misleading.
Unless you are calling playing from behind in the second quarter in games where you tied or took the lead later "garbage time."
But that makes zero sense.
He's got real issues to fix, but I think he's shown the ability to patch them up. If he gets the right help and a running game, he'll be alright.
I respect your opinion - and you have points on most of the post - but I believe you are reaching on the garbage time bit and how often he displayed bad mechanics.
Fair enough.. but you gotta admit it's also kind of streamer that we are 0-9 when Bortles over 300. Hope he can fix things but I'm very skeptical.
Playcalling is the problem. Borles cant find a rhythm on offense because of the running game
Quote:Fair enough.. but you gotta admit it's also kind of streamer that we are 0-9 when Bortles over 300. Hope he can fix things but I'm very skeptical.
Yes. That stat is mostly meaningless, but it's a very tough pill to swallow for fans (myself included.)
Of course - what it doesn't illustrate is the games in which Blake did enough to win - but the defense went out and gave up a historically bad third down conversion rate.
Clearly I'm not
as skeptical as you, but I don't blame you for being that way. He's looking really bad the past two games and we don't know that he'll ever get it fixed up.
I still have some hope.
Quote:Playcalling is the problem. Borles cant find a rhythm on offense because of the running game
Sure wish it was just that. You don't see issues with Blake on plays when he clearly has time and open guys and either stares down the wrong receiver (frequently) or throws an inaccurate wobbly duck and misses the open guy? Happens too often.
If you don't think having zero running game and protection issues are effecting his performance than you should probably stop watching football today. Teams are able to stop our running game in their nickel defense with ease, and at the same time put heavy pressure on the quarterback. He's no where near perfect this year, but there's lots of blame to go around.
Quote:If you don't think having zero running game and protection issues are effecting his performance than you should probably stop watching football today. Teams are able to stop our running game in their nickel defense with ease, and at the same time put heavy pressure on the quarterback. He's no where near perfect this year, but there's lots of blame to go around.
It does have an effect, no one is arguing against that. My problem with Blake is he has fundamental issues that are extremely difficult to "fix", those issues attribute to his ball placement & accuracy struggles. I watch a lot of ball and can't think of any other QB at this level that struggles to throw simple pass concepts, an out, a quick slant, the deep in, everything is a struggle with Blake, he's not a "natural thrower" of the football. The game is incredibly fast at this level, guys have hard enough time processing information at such an heightened pace, I think it's dubious to expect a QB to completely alter his life long throwing motion
while processing all the information QB's have to process. I'm not saying it can't be done, its just that history has shown us that's it's rare. We all want Blake to succeed, I absolute love the kid but I'm also a realist. There has to be major concern within the Jags organization, if he were
just misreading coverage and throwing interceptions (he's doing that also) that would be one thing, players are able to iron out those kind of kinks with more playing time, but Blake's primary flaw is a life-long throwing motion that gives defenses and advantage at this level while attributing to his own accuracy problems. The ball literally needs to come out .5-.75 seconds faster, that throwing motion (naturally) telegraphs where he's going with the ball allowing defensive players to "break" on the ball sooner than what Greg Olsen
and Bortles would like, this is why this passing games struggles in the short to intermediate part of the field (where a quick release & accuracy are crucial). D-coordinators are now "funneling" his reads and passes to that part of the field by shading safeties over the top of Allen Robinson, it's a "no-brainer" strategy given Bortles struggles in that part of the field.
Quote:You can be a decent general manager and find your Quarterback but miss out in the coaching department. A few examples would be Atlanta with Matt Ryan and Alex Smith during his time in San Francisco. Again, you'd think the way this kid is getting his teeth kicked in by these armchair talent scouts that he's been our Quarterback longer than Byron Leftwich or has the pocket awareness of Blaine Gabbert and the courage of a cowardly Lion. He's just now coming off his 32nd career start in year three under two different offensive coordinators. I'd like to hope and think that Khan learned from Weaver's mistakes with Gene Smith and the Jack Del Rio / Mike Mularkey debacle. Caldwell needs to remain intact. And he needs to hire a coaching staff who can work with Bortles and correct the running game and overall offensive lineman play. This is why I keep saying we need a coach like Jim Harbaugh. Someone who has shown he can win with two different Quarterbacks during his tenure with the 49ers. I just don't know any other coach out there that's capable of that.
Now, what Caldwell could do. And I think it's a valid and viable option. In 2017 going into training camp with a new coaching staff. I think you give that staff the benefit of the doubt and you tell them. "Look, I really want you to give my guy a shot first, but, I will look into investing either a decent amount of cap space in a possible replacement through free agency or at least invest a 2ND or 3RD selection on a guy that could challenge him this year and into 2018 if needed". I think that's very fair. And I also think it's the safest route to take. It's panned out for teams like Philadelphia and Washington. You're seeing it now pay off for other teams like Dallas and New England. There's nothing wrong with investing a high end selection on a back-up QB with the potential to take the spotlight over or flip him to another football team that's desperate down the road.
But before all of that. I want to see this running game improve. And I want to see the blocking improve up front before we completely abandon and give up on Bortles like we did with Gabbert. I don't get that same feeling of despair with Caldwell and Bortles like I did with Smith and Gabbert. Two completely different circumstances.
I like David Caldwell, and was probably a bit to "harsh" in my original post, I think he's doing a fine job bringing in talent. I just hope he's honest and unbiased in his assessment of Blake moving forward, after-all Bortles is his "handpicked" QB, and GM's tend to give "their guys" (for better or worse) as much time as possible, I understand that line of reasoning. I just have long-term concerns about Blake's abilities moving forward, his throwing motion is horrendous, his ball placement is inconsistent, and his accuracy is simply not good enough to be a consistent QB at this level. He's playing with one of the better supporting casts at the skill position, and has struggled mightily against 2 bad pass defenses in San Diego & Baltimore, he played ok against Green Bay but missed several passes & reads in that game, i watched Matthew Stafford (an underrated passer btw) light up Green Bay this past Sunday, with a lesser supporting cast. The Jaguars can't run the ball but there are a lot of teams that can't run the ball right now, the Lions run game is practically non-existent, the lack of a running game is not an excuse for Blakes horrendous play so far, he misses (often) on easy throws and struggles to read defenses. That has nothing to do with the lack of a running game
Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="UCF Knight" data-cid="839272" data-time="1475154839">
If you don't think having zero running game and protection issues are effecting his performance than you should probably stop watching football today. Teams are able to stop our running game in their nickel defense with ease, and at the same time put heavy pressure on the quarterback. He's no where near perfect this year, but there's lots of blame to go around.
</blockquote>
I've watched and played a ton of football in my lifetime, thank you. I very much understand how defenses stack and leverage against your weaknesses run v pass. But I've also clearly seen defenses not respecting our pass which has impacted our run too. Any objective person would say they've seen Blake under perform when given time and open receivers, too often. Nobody's perfect, even the best, but there's a disturbing frequency and trend here and it's related to throwing flaws that have been there all along. What surprised me more frankly was his game flaws, staring down receivers and some outright head scratcher bad decisions, both when under pressure and not.
Quote:I've watched and played a ton of football in my lifetime, thank you. I very much understand how defenses stack and leverage against your weaknesses run v pass. But I've also clearly seen defenses not respecting our pass which has impacted our run too. Any objective person would say they've seen Blake under perform when given time and open receivers, too often. Nobody's perfect, even the best, but there's a disturbing frequency and trend here and it's related to throwing flaws that have been there all along. What surprised me more frankly was his game flaws, staring down receivers and some outright head scratcher bad decisions, both when under pressure and not.
http://bigbored.com/just-how-bad-is-blake-bortles/
Here's an article breaking down a handful of pass plays from this pass weekend, it really highlights the inaccuracy of this Qb
Quote:http://bigbored.com/just-how-bad-is-blake-bortles/
Here's an article breaking down a handful of pass plays from this pass weekend, it really highlights the inaccuracy of this Qb
Btw if Blake throws the ball to the middle of the field on the pass to Lee it's an easy TD
Quote:Premature line of reasoning IMO.
Blake is fixable.
We've seen him tighten up his mechanics before. Clearly and plainly - he improved aspects of his game.
It wasn't all just receivers making him look good.
He got better.
Now he's regressed.
With a proper staff and training regimen he can play that way more often.
Yup. Its pretty drastic how Blake fluctuates really based on his mechanics. His games at UCF were filled with ducks. This is part of the reason I was not as high on him as some were (including the Jags). Then, his pro day came and his mechanics were spot on. I remember watching that live on Jaguars.com and he was throwing zip. Then rookie camp happened and again...the story was the ducks that he was throwing. Then he left and worked on mechanics with Jordan Palmer, came back in camp and preseason and once again were throwing zingers. As the season went on, his mechanics deteriorated to the point that he was Tebow-like on the final game of the season with his wind-up.
We found out he had some injuries that led him to overcompensate with his motion and basically ruined his arm, and that he was going to work with Tom House all off season. For the most part, his mechanics held up year 2 even if he had decision-making issues. I was hoping that the little workout he had with House this off-season (he admitted his focus was on the mental aspect of the game and he didn't do as extensive mechanics training) would be enough, but its clearly not.
I think its too early to give up on him. As he gets another year of experience, the mental aspect will catch up. Which means next season, he can drill the mechanics again. That said, one lesson we should learn is to not skip on QBs in the draft if there's a guy we like. Our 3rd and 4th round picks have looked real good in Yannick and Day, but I know our coaching staff was really high on Dak Prescott during the Senior Bowl and he seems to be doing ok.