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(12-17-2019, 01:02 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 12:54 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, tinfoil hat time:
What if Khan was actually so far out in front of this thing that he, or someone representing him, asked the union to include that? What if he knew the ruling was going against the Jaguars and said, "Look, I can make this go away very easily, I just need you to give me something to go on."?
The silence from the Jaguars, unless I've missed something, has been deafening. No loud attempts to justify their offseason training program and expectations of players in it, nothing saying that they acted in what they believed to be the best interest of the players, nothing about a desire to make sure that players were receiving the best care from licensed, experienced, reputable medical staff, basically none of the responses that you'd expect to see almost immediately from TC?
What if that whole last paragraph is in there because Khan wanted a way to go to TC and tell him to take a retirement package and spend time with his family or be fired for cause and get nothing? TC is a proud enough man that this might work from Khan's point of view. Remember that Weaver once said that the reason he fired Coughlin is that he didn't think Coughlin would be willing to turn over GM duties and focus solely on coaching.
This is nothing new regarding Tom and Caldwell. They basically throw Marrone out to the wolves in every press conference. The only time Tom came out was when he tried to plead with the fans to come out to the game.
I haven't even seen a statement, not even a tweet. That's not par for the course. Usually we get one or both of those and then Marrone tossed on the podium with zero information to pass along.
(12-17-2019, 12:54 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 12:31 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not arguing that we did or didn't do something wrong. We clearly overstepped. I'm also still on the side that says that TC and really the whole front office needs to go. But I have a problem with the last paragraph from the NFLPA. It could be possible that we have 25% of the grievances because fowler had to file one with ever one of the 18 wrongful fines that we implied, as of right now we do not know. Either way it doesn't change the following.
A violation was committed on our part with the penalty being that we had to resend all of the fines we imposed on fowler during his rehab process. That should have been the end of the whole thing. For the Union to come out and continue to smear the franchise , IMO, is wrong and could potentially have serious implications on our club moving forward. Now i dont know that it was purposely made public but the reality is that the last paragraph didn't have to be issued in that statement and could ultimately punish the franchise more than the initial penalty ever will.
Khan really needs get out in front of this whole thing. For him and the franchise to just stand quite like it going to all blow over doesn't seem like the right move, again IMO.
Ok, tinfoil hat time:
What if Khan was actually so far out in front of this thing that he, or someone representing him, asked the union to include that? What if he knew the ruling was going against the Jaguars and said, "Look, I can make this go away very easily, I just need you to give me something to go on."?
The silence from the Jaguars, unless I've missed something, has been deafening. No loud attempts to justify their offseason training program and expectations of players in it, nothing saying that they acted in what they believed to be the best interest of the players, nothing about a desire to make sure that players were receiving the best care from licensed, experienced, reputable medical staff, basically none of the responses that you'd expect to see almost immediately from TC?
What if that whole last paragraph is in there because Khan wanted a way to go to TC and tell him to take a retirement package and spend time with his family or be fired for cause and get nothing? TC is a proud enough man that this might work from Khan's point of view. Remember that Weaver once said that the reason he fired Coughlin is that he didn't think Coughlin would be willing to turn over GM duties and focus solely on coaching.
interesting possible explanation but i highly doubt that they would purposely damage the image of their franchise with the sole intention of having a reason to fire someone in the organization. I would think if this was the case the termination would be happening almost instantly so that the franchise could then begin to make TC the scapegoat sooner rather than later. I also dont see khan being a guy who would have to stage something to this degree just to terminate someone.
The NFLPA controversy aside Coughlin has been absolutely terrible in his role as EVP.
Extending Bortles
Not drafting Watson, Mahomes, and/or Lamar Jackson
Overpaying for Foles
Poor evaluation of Norwell
Paying Lee/Moncrief and allowing Robinson to leave
Failing to come to an agreement with Yannick
etc.
Despite all of these transgressions people continue to worship Coughlin for his 1996 & 1999 AFCG appearances. The NY Giants won 2 SB Championships with Coughlin as the coach and NY deemed him expendable as a coach. Yet we here in Jacksonville with our loser mentality continue to make excuses for his incompetence. Its funny that Coughlin is lauded for being a disciplinarian but his team leads the league in penalties, he's praised for enforcing rules but has been repeatedly reprimanded by the Union for breaking rules. The so called tough guy doesn't even has the courage to stand at the podium and be held accountable for his actions, he sends Marrone out every week to answer questions above his pay grade. This most recent incident is just another in a series of embarrassments for the franchise.
Lot's of speculation going on around here.
All over a couple ex-players ....give Khan a chance to consider options
and fix everything. The last he needs to do is some sort of "knee jerk " reaction.
(12-17-2019, 12:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 08:52 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. But not only are the players much softer, it's now part of the agreement between the NFL and the union. So on one hand, I have no problem with Tom trying to take a bunch of softies and make them tougher. But if it's actually against league / union rules, that I do have a problem with. Makes me wonder why we even thought we could get away with it.
Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?
This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"
The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".
Fowler was a high priced first round pick coming off a major injury. The idea that the team wanted his rehab to be done onsite with team doctors is the most logical, sane, common sense approach any team could have. That isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. These players are only required to be with the team for 5 months of the year Aug-Dec. The idea that the team would want all their players to show up for a few days during the 7 month offseason for voluntary camp isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. Tom yells at Jalen in the locker room for throwing a temper tantrum after not getting his way and Jalen acts like a baby about it.
I think we need to differentiate between what a team is legally allowed to do based on the agreement with the NFLPA and expectations that are too demanding of players. Rehabbing on site, showing up a few days during the 7 month offseason, getting yelled at for disobeying coaches, etc.... are all extremely reasonable actions and requests by the team. Yet players complaining about how hard and unfair and mean Coughlin is. It's weak. Or soft, whatever you want to call it. Players get paid far more money, have far fewer demands imposed on them in the past, and significantly better medical care. Their life in the NFL is significantly easier than players from prior periods. It just is.
The real problem is Coughlin won't adhere to the rules set forth by the NFL and NFLPA's agreement.
Big deal, there's never been a line of quality FA talent lining up outside of 1 Jaguar place waiting to sign anyway, before or since Coughlin. Other than Calais, there haven't been very many free agents in the last three years since Coughlin returned that have made much of a long term impact anyway, either because they got injured or just came down here for their paid vacation. Yes he should be fired because he's way too rigid, and even more so because of the bonehead contracts he has overseen/approved, but it's not like free agents have ever been busting down our door to sign here. Build through the draft and re-sign the players that pan out, if you can.
(12-17-2019, 01:18 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 12:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?
This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"
The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".
Fowler was a high priced first round pick coming off a major injury. The idea that the team wanted his rehab to be done onsite with team doctors is the most logical, sane, common sense approach any team could have. That isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. These players are only required to be with the team for 5 months of the year Aug-Dec. The idea that the team would want all their players to show up for a few days during the 7 month offseason for voluntary camp isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. Tom yells at Jalen in the locker room for throwing a temper tantrum after not getting his way and Jalen acts like a baby about it.
I think we need to differentiate between what a team is legally allowed to do based on the agreement with the NFLPA and expectations that are too demanding of players. Rehabbing on site, showing up a few days during the 7 month offseason, getting yelled at for disobeying coaches, etc.... are all extremely reasonable actions and requests by the team. Yet players complaining about how hard and unfair and mean Coughlin is. It's weak. Or soft, whatever you want to call it. Players get paid far more money, have far fewer demands imposed on them in the past, and significantly better medical care. Their life in the NFL is significantly easier than players from prior periods. It just is.
The real problem is Coughlin won't adhere to the rules set forth by the NFL and NFLPA's agreement.
I don't have a issue with any of that. TC broke the rules and we have to pay the price. I don't fault the NFLPA or Fowler in any way for that. My issues is with the letter sent out by the NFLPA that begins by being an announcement of the outcome of a grievance case filed by a player against a club. This same announcement changes tones in the last paragraph and turns into almost a hit piece against our organization that doesn't actually add anything to initial point. Removing the last part doesn't take anything away from the ability to inform the players about the initial point. But what is does do is potentially damage the clubs image in a way that could make it less attractive to Free Agents in the league.
(12-17-2019, 11:10 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ] (12-16-2019, 07:32 PM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ]Boo Hoo....
NFL Players are so soft....
Give me a break.
Most of these goof balls wouldn't have made it 15 20 years ago..
Fowler sucks. Ramsey is a cry baby....some cover corner...giving up 20 yards completions all over the play....
They looked good the other night against the Cowboys...
Ok boomer
lol not that old...hahha
(12-17-2019, 08:50 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 08:45 AM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ]So what happens when Coughlin is retained...how many cry babies will there be.
I'll just hold onto this brilliant observation for future use.
Me too.
(12-17-2019, 12:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 08:52 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. But not only are the players much softer, it's now part of the agreement between the NFL and the union. So on one hand, I have no problem with Tom trying to take a bunch of softies and make them tougher. But if it's actually against league / union rules, that I do have a problem with. Makes me wonder why we even thought we could get away with it.
Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?
This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"
The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".
It's how they hit people....
They basically ripped your head off....
Why do you think only tough WRs caught over the middle of the field....
Shoot Keenan was clobbered a bunch and QBs were destroyed....Brunell blasted in the ear hole....
and the Brunell hit was not close to what it was 10 years before that
My thoughts concerning the deafening silence from the clubhouse....
I think (hope) there will be a press conference later this afternoon that will announce the end of Tom Coughlin's tenure with the franchise.
They are using this time, as quiet as it may be, to get all of their ducks in a row so that all questions concerning this, and previous situations, can be handled without having to take additional questions.
Right now I don't think the franchise can afford to be caught off guard by a slew of media/shock journalists throwing cryptic, two-sided questions at them.
Take the time to get it right without digging a deeper hole.
(12-17-2019, 01:48 PM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 12:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?
This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"
The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".
It's how they hit people....
They basically ripped your head off....
Why do you think only tough WRs caught over the middle of the field....
Shoot Keenan was clobbered a bunch and QBs were destroyed....Brunell blasted in the ear hole....
and the Brunell hit was not close to what it was 10 years before that
Darius's Closeline.......damn near decapitation...
(12-17-2019, 01:49 PM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 01:48 PM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ]It's how they hit people....
They basically ripped your head off....
Why do you think only tough WRs caught over the middle of the field....
Shoot Keenan was clobbered a bunch and QBs were destroyed....Brunell blasted in the ear hole....
and the Brunell hit was not close to what it was 10 years before that
Darius's Closeline.......damn near decapitation...
So getting ejected is a good thing?
(12-17-2019, 01:48 PM)TheBigDawg Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts concerning the deafening silence from the clubhouse....
I think (hope) there will be a press conference later this afternoon that will announce the end of Tom Coughlin's tenure with the franchise.
They are using this time, as quiet as it may be, to get all of their ducks in a row so that all questions concerning this, and previous situations, can be handled without having to take additional questions.
Right now I don't think the franchise can afford to be caught off guard by a slew of media/shock journalists throwing cryptic, two-sided questions at them.
Take the time to get it right without digging a deeper hole.
One play from the Superbowl...
Some players on defense got cocky the following year and became "Look at me Players"..... and Bortles didn't pan out.
I will be surprised if TC is not back next year.
(12-17-2019, 01:48 PM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 12:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?
This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"
The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".
It's how they hit people....
They basically ripped your head off....
Why do you think only tough WRs caught over the middle of the field....
Shoot Keenan was clobbered a bunch and QBs were destroyed....Brunell blasted in the ear hole....
and the Brunell hit was not close to what it was 10 years before that
Being a dirty player doesn't make you tougher.
And the NFL players today are just smarter. They are trying to play for longer and live healthier lives after football. No need to try and take a guys head off because you aren't given extra points for dirty plays.
(12-17-2019, 11:56 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 11:42 AM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]So you reply and say "money talks" yet being fined takes said monies away in increments. Lets say multiple contracts are close in money for a player in FA....Other teams will pay you and not fine you, yet the Jags will pay you plus fine you. Which job are you accepting?
Close enough for lack of state tax to make a difference? This will have ZERO impact on free agents coming to JAX if they relieve TC of his duties.
...unless players think the direction to levy the fines was from the top....
and yes, I could EASILY see a player choosing to go where the culture has not been as poisoned as ours has been in recent seasons if the only difference is a state tax, especially if the roster makeups and coaching are comparable or better on the other side of the fence.
Sometimes you pay for piece of mind.
(12-17-2019, 01:54 PM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 01:48 PM)TheBigDawg Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts concerning the deafening silence from the clubhouse....
I think (hope) there will be a press conference later this afternoon that will announce the end of Tom Coughlin's tenure with the franchise.
They are using this time, as quiet as it may be, to get all of their ducks in a row so that all questions concerning this, and previous situations, can be handled without having to take additional questions.
Right now I don't think the franchise can afford to be caught off guard by a slew of media/shock journalists throwing cryptic, two-sided questions at them.
Take the time to get it right without digging a deeper hole.
One play from the Superbowl...
Some players on defense got cocky the following year and became "Look at me Players"..... and Bortles didn't pan out.
I will be surprised if TC is not back next year.
So how'd that keepTomCoughlin website go for you the first time? Maybe you should crank it up again.
(12-17-2019, 12:54 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (12-17-2019, 12:31 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not arguing that we did or didn't do something wrong. We clearly overstepped. I'm also still on the side that says that TC and really the whole front office needs to go. But I have a problem with the last paragraph from the NFLPA. It could be possible that we have 25% of the grievances because fowler had to file one with ever one of the 18 wrongful fines that we implied, as of right now we do not know. Either way it doesn't change the following.
A violation was committed on our part with the penalty being that we had to resend all of the fines we imposed on fowler during his rehab process. That should have been the end of the whole thing. For the Union to come out and continue to smear the franchise , IMO, is wrong and could potentially have serious implications on our club moving forward. Now i dont know that it was purposely made public but the reality is that the last paragraph didn't have to be issued in that statement and could ultimately punish the franchise more than the initial penalty ever will.
Khan really needs get out in front of this whole thing. For him and the franchise to just stand quite like it going to all blow over doesn't seem like the right move, again IMO.
Ok, tinfoil hat time:
What if Khan was actually so far out in front of this thing that he, or someone representing him, asked the union to include that? What if he knew the ruling was going against the Jaguars and said, "Look, I can make this go away very easily, I just need you to give me something to go on."?
The silence from the Jaguars, unless I've missed something, has been deafening. No loud attempts to justify their offseason training program and expectations of players in it, nothing saying that they acted in what they believed to be the best interest of the players, nothing about a desire to make sure that players were receiving the best care from licensed, experienced, reputable medical staff, basically none of the responses that you'd expect to see almost immediately from TC?
What if that whole last paragraph is in there because Khan wanted a way to go to TC and tell him to take a retirement package and spend time with his family or be fired for cause and get nothing? TC is a proud enough man that this might work from Khan's point of view. Remember that Weaver once said that the reason he fired Coughlin is that he didn't think Coughlin would be willing to turn over GM duties and focus solely on coaching.
Because Shad is not that dang dumb.
Whether or not Tom was acting independently to levy the fine, the stink of the issue and that statement from the PA is on the franchise. Now there is doubt whether Khan knew, or worse, orchestrated the violations before the PA came forward.
You don't voluntarily give yourself a black eye.
I think the PA is fed up with Tom. This isn't his first run-in with the league regarding overstepping authorities in the CBA. The union has a responsibility to guide its members with their best interests in mind.
(12-17-2019, 01:48 PM)TheBigDawg Wrote: [ -> ]My thoughts concerning the deafening silence from the clubhouse....
I think (hope) there will be a press conference later this afternoon that will announce the end of Tom Coughlin's tenure with the franchise.
They are using this time, as quiet as it may be, to get all of their ducks in a row so that all questions concerning this, and previous situations, can be handled without having to take additional questions.
Right now I don't think the franchise can afford to be caught off guard by a slew of media/shock journalists throwing cryptic, two-sided questions at them.
Take the time to get it right without digging a deeper hole.
I'm refreshing pages faster than any other bad-loss Monday in hopes of the breaking news banner to report a press conference at the top of the hour.
I think you are right, though, no immediate refute of the statement by the PA sounds like either they are either getting lambasted by Goodell or other high-ranking Shieldmen to try to clean up the mess, or Khan is meeting with internal team management (besides the EVP) to resolve the issue, and have all the announcements prepared.
Very surprised that no whispers have made it to the media yet, but that may also indicate the gravity that Shad has applied to the situation.
They should fire everyone in the front office, but Tom needs to be the first to go. What the hell was he doing? The Players Union is telling players NOT to play in Jacksonville...
lol
wow
(12-17-2019, 03:03 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]They should fire everyone in the front office, but Tom needs to be the first to go. What the hell was he doing? The Players Union is telling players NOT to play in Jacksonville...
lol
wow
Make believe none of this happened, do you think the NFLPA wants small markets? They want as much cash as possible and so what if small markets need to move.
Typing this doesn't mean I wash the franchise free of this nonsense, I just find it distasteful for the NFPLA to target a team. The evidence says enough without whizzing on the franchise. And the shield means nothing, Godell is overpaid and a joke. This league is following the same patterns as all big entities and turning on their consumers.
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