12-17-2019, 09:08 PM
12-17-2019, 09:14 PM
(12-17-2019, 11:10 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ](12-16-2019, 07:32 PM)old_man Wrote: [ -> ]Boo Hoo....
NFL Players are so soft....
Give me a break.
Most of these goof balls wouldn't have made it 15 20 years ago..
Fowler sucks. Ramsey is a cry baby....some cover corner...giving up 20 yards completions all over the play....
They looked good the other night against the Cowboys...
Ok boomer
Does anyone really think "Ok, boomer" is a cut down or makes a difference to a boomer? It's just childish.
12-17-2019, 09:19 PM
12-17-2019, 09:20 PM
(12-17-2019, 12:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ](12-17-2019, 08:52 AM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. But not only are the players much softer, it's now part of the agreement between the NFL and the union. So on one hand, I have no problem with Tom trying to take a bunch of softies and make them tougher. But if it's actually against league / union rules, that I do have a problem with. Makes me wonder why we even thought we could get away with it.Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?
This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"
The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".
This is typical of how you present arguments. It is obvious "soft" refers to their mentality, not their physicality. And, yes, there is an over-abundance of p****** in the league no matter their physical gifts.
(12-17-2019, 01:18 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ](12-17-2019, 12:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?
This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"
The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".
Fowler was a high priced first round pick coming off a major injury. The idea that the team wanted his rehab to be done onsite with team doctors is the most logical, sane, common sense approach any team could have. That isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. These players are only required to be with the team for 5 months of the year Aug-Dec. The idea that the team would want all their players to show up for a few days during the 7 month offseason for voluntary camp isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. Tom yells at Jalen in the locker room for throwing a temper tantrum after not getting his way and Jalen acts like a baby about it.
I think we need to differentiate between what a team is legally allowed to do based on the agreement with the NFLPA and expectations that are too demanding of players. Rehabbing on site, showing up a few days during the 7 month offseason, getting yelled at for disobeying coaches, etc.... are all extremely reasonable actions and requests by the team. Yet players complaining about how hard and unfair and mean Coughlin is. It's weak. Or soft, whatever you want to call it. Players get paid far more money, have far fewer demands imposed on them in the past, and significantly better medical care. Their life in the NFL is significantly easier than players from prior periods. It just is.
The real problem is Coughlin won't adhere to the rules set forth by the NFL and NFLPA's agreement.
+1
12-17-2019, 09:24 PM
(12-17-2019, 09:14 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone really think "Ok, boomer" is a cut down or makes a difference to a boomer? It's just childish.Never quite understood just what they're trying to spit out.
Seems like they don't really know what to say so it just comes out. Go figure.
12-17-2019, 09:27 PM
(12-17-2019, 09:14 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]It's a two way street. No different than how Millenial's have been blamed for this and that. Or aimed at. [BLEEP] for tat.(12-17-2019, 11:10 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Ok boomer
Does anyone really think "Ok, boomer" is a cut down or makes a difference to a boomer? It's just childish.
Not all boomers are the same. Same for millenials and Generation X'ers. It's just different mentalities converging over a sport.
All that said. Time only moves forward. Things change for better or worse. No matter how WE perceive it.
It ultimately comes down to how the NFL perceives it in 2019 and beyond. Clearly in this case? Coughlin [BLEEP] up.
There's just no way to get around it. It's unfortunate. But all of these reports and comments clearly indicate that within just two years he's demonstrated that he's out of touch and was never cut out to be a EVP for this franchise.
Great coach. He'll always be known for his coaching. But his 2nd stint here will tarnish his name and probably prevent him from ever getting a similar role in the NFL anywhere else.
It's a shame really.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
12-17-2019, 09:51 PM
(12-17-2019, 09:27 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ](12-17-2019, 09:14 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone really think "Ok, boomer" is a cut down or makes a difference to a boomer? It's just childish.It's a two way street. No different than how Millenial's have been blamed for this and that. Or aimed at. [BLEEP] for tat.
Not all boomers are the same. Same for millenials and Generation X'ers. It's just different mentalities converging over a sport.
All that said. Time only moves forward. Things change for better or worse. No matter how WE perceive it.
It ultimately comes down to how the NFL perceives it in 2019 and beyond. Clearly in this case? Coughlin [BLEEP] up.
There's just no way to get around it. It's unfortunate. But all of these reports and comments clearly indicate that within just two years he's demonstrated that he's out of touch and was never cut out to be a EVP for this franchise.
Great coach. He'll always be known for his coaching. But his 2nd stint here will tarnish his name and probably prevent him from ever getting a similar role in the NFL anywhere else.
It's a shame really.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
As far as Coughlin is concerned, you just can't break known rules especially when you are known as unyielding on rules.
But my response to "Ok Boomer" was just that: a response to that comment. It's one of the most asinine, weak sauce retorts I see in social media. And I don't mean that as something I'm aiming at the particular poster. It's just dumb. Every time I see it I want to respond, "Ok , Dumba**."
12-17-2019, 09:58 PM
(12-17-2019, 05:42 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Just read on MMQB twitter that the Jaguars have to pay back fines to 10 different players so we had at least 10 grievances.
For those curious, I found the tweet, which led to this article.
Relevant portion:
Quote:The NFLPA’s victory over the NFL and the Jaguars forced the team to repay fine money to about 10 different players both currently on Jacksonville and not (including a whopping $700,000 to Dante Fowler). The arbitrator ruled that it was permissible for teams to require players to rehab year-round but not that they do all the rehab on site. I’m told Fowler’s fines were incurred during the January-March window of the 2018 season—which is a “dead period” for players during the year, after season’s end, but before teams open their offseason program.
• The union actually made attempts to settle with the Jaguars and the league over the last few months but was rebuffed. The offer, as I understand it, entailed the players having their fine money repaid, and bargaining between the parties to reach settlement terms. It seems crazy to me that the NFL and a team wouldn’t want this to go away, rather than fight it for months. But that’s the chose they made.
I'm a little skeptical that we haven't seen the 10 number reported anywhere else. But if it is true, I think it becomes a lot tougher to say Kahn didn't know; you're talking about 10 grievances he might have to pay out on. I'd have to think someone brought that to the owner. Especially if Odrick's grievance was lumped in there as he had 5.5 mil voided from his contract for this "not rehabbing at the facility during the off-season" issue. (Source)
That's a lot of money being potentially paid out for the owner to not know what's going on...
And from my reading of the above, it would seem this ruling wouldn't encompass Fournette's grievance, so that may another one to add to the list. Yikes.
If this SI report is accurate and the Jags paid out on 10 grievances, with more, potentially, out there, I have to say I'm shocked we haven't heard anything from the organization yet. Even a "we respect the arbitrator's decision and are evaluating our legal options" would seem more fitting than this radio silence.
On a less serious note, I made a comment a few pages back about Mike Kaye being less confrontational than Ryan O' when they were both here. So here's Ryan O's take on the situation:
https://twitter.com/ryanohalloran/status...1200898048
Joy.
12-17-2019, 11:15 PM
Does this really surprise anyone? I mean, it's Coughlin.. He's always been known to be overly tough on players.. It's a new generation and you have to go with the times. In this generation, they're concentrating on and trying to protect players health involving CTE more and more.. Not going say the older generation was tougher, that may be the case. But with advances in medical science, they know more about mental and player health now more than ever.. Hell, they even used to include cigarettes in K rations during the great wars since they weren't considered very dangerous to your health.
12-17-2019, 11:28 PM
(12-17-2019, 01:39 PM)JagsorDie Wrote: [ -> ](12-17-2019, 01:18 PM)rfc17 Wrote: [ -> ]Fowler was a high priced first round pick coming off a major injury. The idea that the team wanted his rehab to be done onsite with team doctors is the most logical, sane, common sense approach any team could have. That isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. These players are only required to be with the team for 5 months of the year Aug-Dec. The idea that the team would want all their players to show up for a few days during the 7 month offseason for voluntary camp isn't some egregious demand or request. It's just not allowed because of the NFLPA agreement. Tom yells at Jalen in the locker room for throwing a temper tantrum after not getting his way and Jalen acts like a baby about it.
I think we need to differentiate between what a team is legally allowed to do based on the agreement with the NFLPA and expectations that are too demanding of players. Rehabbing on site, showing up a few days during the 7 month offseason, getting yelled at for disobeying coaches, etc.... are all extremely reasonable actions and requests by the team. Yet players complaining about how hard and unfair and mean Coughlin is. It's weak. Or soft, whatever you want to call it. Players get paid far more money, have far fewer demands imposed on them in the past, and significantly better medical care. Their life in the NFL is significantly easier than players from prior periods. It just is.
The real problem is Coughlin won't adhere to the rules set forth by the NFL and NFLPA's agreement.
I don't have a issue with any of that. TC broke the rules and we have to pay the price. I don't fault the NFLPA or Fowler in any way for that. My issues is with the letter sent out by the NFLPA that begins by being an announcement of the outcome of a grievance case filed by a player against a club. This same announcement changes tones in the last paragraph and turns into almost a hit piece against our organization that doesn't actually add anything to initial point. Removing the last part doesn't take anything away from the ability to inform the players about the initial point. But what is does do is potentially damage the clubs image in a way that could make it less attractive to Free Agents in the league.
I agree with this, and I am sure Khan does too. There was no reason to put that last paragraph or line in there and I suspect that it probably violated some code as I have never seen the NFLPA do something like that before.
12-17-2019, 11:43 PM
(12-17-2019, 09:51 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]As far as Coughlin is concerned, you just can't break known rules especially when you are known as unyielding on rules.
I don’t think this point has been emphasized enough. Coughlin, when he was hired, was pegged as someone that would bring order and discipline, but you can’t run a franchise when you can’t even follow the rules yourself. No one will respect that.
Losing + lack of discipline + player disputes + coaching disputes = a first class plane ticket out of Jacksonville.
The dude isn’t getting along with anyone in the stadium.
12-18-2019, 12:03 AM
12-18-2019, 12:07 AM
(12-16-2019, 04:48 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ](12-16-2019, 04:35 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Players today have it so easy.
It's why the product on the field is garbage today.
Any team from the 90s would destroy any team from today and it wouldn't even be close.
That being said - you gotta play by the rules as they are written and ol' Tommy boy refuses to do that.
I'd like to see teams from the 90s playing against Mahomes , Lamar and Russell Wilson. The NFL now is bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled/smarter.
Recency bias.
Today's NFL doesn't block anywhere nearly as well as they used to, nor do they tackle nearly as well.
Those players wouldn't be allowed to do what they're doing today, and I don't mean by coaching holding them back. Likely by KO.
In many ways, rules changes (not changes in talent) have been the far overriding factor.
12-18-2019, 12:13 AM
(12-17-2019, 11:43 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ](12-17-2019, 09:51 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]As far as Coughlin is concerned, you just can't break known rules especially when you are known as unyielding on rules.
I don’t think this point has been emphasized enough. Coughlin, when he was hired, was pegged as someone that would bring order and discipline, but you can’t run a franchise when you can’t even follow the rules yourself. No one will respect that.
Losing + lack of discipline + player disputes + coaching disputes = a first class plane ticket out of Jacksonville.
The dude isn’t getting along with anyone in the stadium.
The decision to bring him back looked far better on paper than it did in practice, that's for sure.
The past is the past. Time always moves on. Everything changes.
No man ever steps in the same river twice.
12-18-2019, 12:21 AM
(12-18-2019, 12:07 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ](12-16-2019, 04:48 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to see teams from the 90s playing against Mahomes , Lamar and Russell Wilson. The NFL now is bigger, faster, stronger and more skilled/smarter.
Recency bias.
Today's NFL doesn't block anywhere nearly as well as they used to, nor do they tackle nearly as well.
Those players wouldn't be allowed to do what they're doing today, and I don't mean by coaching holding them back. Likely by KO.
In many ways, rules changes (not changes in talent) have been the far overriding factor.
Blocking in today's NFL is actually harder as they're facing way better athletes, with higher levels of skill and more complex blocks needed to help protect the passer.
It's a given that rule changes have helped but it's also a much more skillful game than it was 20 years ago with advanced in coaching and early development.
12-18-2019, 12:40 AM
Its just a ma5ter of time now. TC is as good as gone.
12-18-2019, 01:00 AM
(12-17-2019, 09:51 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ](12-17-2019, 09:27 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]It's a two way street. No different than how Millenial's have been blamed for this and that. Or aimed at. [BLEEP] for tat.
Not all boomers are the same. Same for millenials and Generation X'ers. It's just different mentalities converging over a sport.
All that said. Time only moves forward. Things change for better or worse. No matter how WE perceive it.
It ultimately comes down to how the NFL perceives it in 2019 and beyond. Clearly in this case? Coughlin [BLEEP] up.
There's just no way to get around it. It's unfortunate. But all of these reports and comments clearly indicate that within just two years he's demonstrated that he's out of touch and was never cut out to be a EVP for this franchise.
Great coach. He'll always be known for his coaching. But his 2nd stint here will tarnish his name and probably prevent him from ever getting a similar role in the NFL anywhere else.
It's a shame really.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
As far as Coughlin is concerned, you just can't break known rules especially when you are known as unyielding on rules.
But my response to "Ok Boomer" was just that: a response to that comment. It's one of the most asinine, weak sauce retorts I see in social media. And I don't mean that as something I'm aiming at the particular poster. It's just dumb. Every time I see it I want to respond, "Ok , Dumba**."
You're literally the person that "Ok, Boomer" is directed at. You're proving their point by acknowledging it, criticizing it, expressing an opinion on it etc. If its really as "dumb" as you claim, then just ignore it...... the only way to win this game is to not play.
12-18-2019, 01:44 AM
(12-17-2019, 11:15 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]Does this really surprise anyone? I mean, it's Coughlin.. He's always been known to be overly tough on players.. It's a new generation and you have to go with the times. In this generation, they're concentrating on and trying to protect players health involving CTE more and more.. Not going say the older generation was tougher, that may be the case. But with advances in medical science, they know more about mental and player health now more than ever.. Hell, they even used to include cigarettes in K rations during the great wars since they weren't considered very dangerous to your health.
This is it. I have a lot of respect for Coughlin but hes just wrong here. It's off season and players can do what they like. People may not like it but those are the rules. For Coughlin to decide these were mandatory and then fine players for not going. No. Its voluntary workouts all over again.
And fined 25 times, that's such a Coughlin wont back down, I'm in the right move. It looks real bad for him.
I get where hes trying to come from, he wants a medical team he knows to monitor the injury but talk about going the wrong way about it.
12-18-2019, 08:46 AM
There's no reason to do it right now, but if they don't clean house at the end of the year it may finally be the straw that broke the camel's back as far as me keeping my season tickets that I've held since year one. I'm already teetering on the fence.
12-18-2019, 08:55 AM
(12-17-2019, 09:58 PM)LMD Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:The NFLPA’s victory over the NFL and the Jaguars forced the team to repay fine money to about 10 different players both currently on Jacksonville and not (including a whopping $700,000 to Dante Fowler). The arbitrator ruled that it was permissible for teams to require players to rehab year-round but not that they do all the rehab on site. I’m told Fowler’s fines were incurred during the January-March window of the 2018 season—which is a “dead period” for players during the year, after season’s end, but before teams open their offseason program.
• The union actually made attempts to settle with the Jaguars and the league over the last few months but was rebuffed. The offer, as I understand it, entailed the players having their fine money repaid, and bargaining between the parties to reach settlement terms. It seems crazy to me that the NFL and a team wouldn’t want this to go away, rather than fight it for months. But that’s the chose they made.
I'm a little skeptical that we haven't seen the 10 number reported anywhere else. But if it is true, I think it becomes a lot tougher to say Kahn didn't know; you're talking about 10 grievances he might have to pay out on. I'd have to think someone brought that to the owner. Especially if Odrick's grievance was lumped in there as he had 5.5 mil voided from his contract for this "not rehabbing at the facility during the off-season" issue. (Source)
That's a lot of money being potentially paid out for the owner to not know what's going on...
Yea I've been wondering if Khan not only knew about it but was okay with it. If we were denying the chance to settle and wanted to fight the case, I would think Khan weighed in on that decision.