(12-24-2019, 06:37 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]What I don't see with Minshew is also one of the major flaws of Bortles. I don't see any anticipation. He is very methodical and has to see his guys be open before he'll throw the ball. Other than the timing back shoulder sideline passes he never just hits his dropback and fires the ball. I can't remember any plays where the ball was already half way to the receiver before they came out of their break.
The mania was fun for a while, but I do not think there is a franchise QB on our team right now.
Highly disagree. Watch the all 22 and he routinely has the ball leaving his hand before a receiver has made their break
(12-24-2019, 06:37 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]What I don't see with Minshew is also one of the major flaws of Bortles. I don't see any anticipation. He is very methodical and has to see his guys be open before he'll throw the ball. Other than the timing back shoulder sideline passes he never just hits his dropback and fires the ball. I can't remember any plays where the ball was already half way to the receiver before they came out of their break.
The mania was fun for a while, but I do not think there is a franchise QB on our team right now.
I totally agree. I hope I am wrong and he makes major strides in 2020 and becomes our franchise QB, but right now, I'm not seeing it.
(12-24-2019, 08:14 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 06:37 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]What I don't see with Minshew is also one of the major flaws of Bortles. I don't see any anticipation. He is very methodical and has to see his guys be open before he'll throw the ball. Other than the timing back shoulder sideline passes he never just hits his dropback and fires the ball. I can't remember any plays where the ball was already half way to the receiver before they came out of their break.
The mania was fun for a while, but I do not think there is a franchise QB on our team right now.
Highly disagree. Watch the all 22 and he routinely has the ball leaving his hand before a receiver has made their break
Agreed. Oakland pass to Cole was a prime example. I have seen plenty of it this year from him with Chark.
You know what I like even more? He protects the damn football. Most rooks give the ball away like a hooker on Mayport.
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(12-24-2019, 09:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 08:14 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]Highly disagree. Watch the all 22 and he routinely has the ball leaving his hand before a receiver has made their break
Agreed. Oakland pass to Cole was a prime example. I have seen plenty of it this year from him with Chark.
You know what I like even more? He protects the damn football. Most rooks give the ball away like a hooker on Mayport.
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Which pass are you talking about? I know not the 50 yarder after the defender fell down. I already said I'm not talking about the sideline timing routes, which is what most of Chark's have been too. I mean the WR runs an out or a curl or whatever and Minshew has the ball out of his hands before the break.
If whoever said they have the all 22 of Minshew doing it regularly could post some clips of that I would appreciate it cause I haven't seen it much, if at all.
(12-24-2019, 03:35 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]1. Foles is not the guy. Foles can be great if the team around him is good enough but he is not a franchise guy. The guy can't even last through a 16 game season without injury. He clearly is not the guy.
2. Minshew is a rookie but has played with one hand behind his back since the benching. Minshew has his moments but I don't feel comfortable going into next season banking the whole future on him. I would consider using a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB becasue we don't have a clear answer at QB.
Here is hoping that a new Regime is put in place and if that happens we don't know what they think of the current QB situation. I really can't say Mnshew at this point has shown enough to be penciled in as the 2020 starter.
Whether we draft an QB high within the 2020 NFL Draft will depend upon whom our existing/new HC and coaching staff will be. If Marrone is retained our top priorities will be defensive w/respect to the run defense. If we fire Marrone and hire an completely new coaching staff, that HC will undoubtedly want his own QB.
i.e Arizona Cardinals.
We now have the draft selections in place to do so and make a splash afterwards. My personal preference is to obtain an young offensive minded HC that will call his own plays while obtaining an DC that'll be trusted enough to make the necessary improvements.
Time Will Tell.
NH3...
Give Minshew the ball in 2020. If he gets the job done. Awesome. We finally have our guy. If not, we draft our guy in 2021.
(12-24-2019, 11:49 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 09:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. Oakland pass to Cole was a prime example. I have seen plenty of it this year from him with Chark.
You know what I like even more? He protects the damn football. Most rooks give the ball away like a hooker on Mayport.
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Which pass are you talking about? I know not the 50 yarder after the defender fell down. I already said I'm not talking about the sideline timing routes, which is what most of Chark's have been too. I mean the WR runs an out or a curl or whatever and Minshew has the ball out of his hands before the break.
If whoever said they have the all 22 of Minshew doing it regularly could post some clips of that I would appreciate it cause I haven't seen it much, if at all.
I will let these guys do the work...
https://youtu.be/0ht6E4TanLw
https://youtu.be/3pZtrTdrqIY
https://youtu.be/84jbK3A5BJQ
(12-24-2019, 09:35 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 08:14 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]Highly disagree. Watch the all 22 and he routinely has the ball leaving his hand before a receiver has made their break
Agreed. Oakland pass to Cole was a prime example. I have seen plenty of it this year from him with Chark.
You know what I like even more? He protects the damn football. Most rooks give the ball away like a hooker on Mayport.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
It is very impressive that he slings the way he does and hasn’t had more turnovers
OP almost got it right.
change "may be" to "is". Franchise QB is ALWAYS top priority until you have one.
Unfortunately, there's only about 4-5 true franchise QB out there, so we may be revisiting this topic for close to forever.
I'll tell you what... If Caldwell is retained I'd probably rather not have him making the pick for QB.
I know there are rumors out there that he wanted Watson or Mahomes, but we can't take that at face value. We can only take the fact that he picked Bortles top 5 and had a hand in extending him.
(12-24-2019, 07:28 PM)HolsterHusto Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 07:16 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]The one arguement against that is if you do a good job filling the holes in this draft, the team may finish around .500 that is going to push them back in the draft in 2021. This year we have a top 10 top 5 pick. If the regime fixes many holes this draft we may have a much lower draft position in 2021.
Or they could do a full rebuild and let go off some of the vets with bigger contracts (Calais, Dareus, Bouye, etc). You replace those guys with rookies and lesser value FAs and you are going to go through some major growing pains.
Can we please not do this again? The 49ers have shown that it shouldn't take 7 years to build a team.
(12-24-2019, 04:54 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't matter. This year we need to fix the O-Line, interior D-Line, linebacker and add a CB. We still have 2 first round picks in 2021. Lets build a good team around the QB and get one in 2021. That way, when we do draft one he'll have the best chance to succeed.
Agree with this.
(12-24-2019, 06:37 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]What I don't see with Minshew is also one of the major flaws of Bortles. I don't see any anticipation. He is very methodical and has to see his guys be open before he'll throw the ball. Other than the timing back shoulder sideline passes he never just hits his dropback and fires the ball. I can't remember any plays where the ball was already half way to the receiver before they came out of their break.
The mania was fun for a while, but I do not think there is a franchise QB on our team right now.
His anticipation is one of his best traits imo. His decision making is rookie level but when he actually throws it it's usually with very good awareness of where the receiver is and what's around him
(12-26-2019, 04:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 06:37 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]What I don't see with Minshew is also one of the major flaws of Bortles. I don't see any anticipation. He is very methodical and has to see his guys be open before he'll throw the ball. Other than the timing back shoulder sideline passes he never just hits his dropback and fires the ball. I can't remember any plays where the ball was already half way to the receiver before they came out of their break.
The mania was fun for a while, but I do not think there is a franchise QB on our team right now.
His anticipation is one of his best traits imo. His decision making is rookie level but when he actually throws it it's usually with very good awareness of where the receiver is and what's around him
I think people either have a different definition of anticipation than I do (I'm not talking about anticipating a pass rush), or didn't see the part where I said other than the deep sideline passes. Everyone knows he is good at those.
Even in those videos the only time I saw anticipation was on the deep sideline passes (and one nice skinny post against the Bengals). I stand by my point. Almost all of his other highlights were scramble plays where he made a nice play but it was well after the play design had broken down.
(12-26-2019, 05:48 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2019, 04:46 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]His anticipation is one of his best traits imo. His decision making is rookie level but when he actually throws it it's usually with very good awareness of where the receiver is and what's around him
I think people either have a different definition of anticipation than I do (I'm not talking about anticipating a pass rush), or didn't see the part where I said other than the deep sideline passes. Everyone knows he is good at those.
Even in those videos the only time I saw anticipation was on the deep sideline passes (and one nice skinny post against the Bengals). I stand by my point. Almost all of his other highlights were scramble plays where he made a nice play but it was well after the play design had broken down.
For instance the Conley TD this week in the red zone was excellent anticipation. Same with the long Chark TD Vs Panthers.
Shows up most weeks
Many posters have commented on how impossible it is for a quarterback to be successful with our offense of line. Well Minshew broke a lot of rookie records behind that line, so I don’t think we really know if we have A franchise quarterback. Take the best available player in the first round unless there’s a franchise quarterback available. If Minchew works out you have a great back up with trade potential.
When people say franchise QB I think they actually mean a Hall of fame QB. Phillip Rivers etc aren't sniffing a championship on this team. They wouldn't even make the playoffs.
Hey we just saw that with Nick Foles. A good team is far more important than the QB, unless the QB is Brady or Brees.
Minshew has ability, popularity, and national marketability. He should've been the starter all year after Foles got hurt, and the next coach needs to be someone who can develop him.
(12-26-2019, 10:07 PM)lastonealive Wrote: [ -> ]When people say franchise QB I think they actually mean a Hall of fame QB. Phillip Rivers etc aren't sniffing a championship on this team. They wouldn't even make the playoffs.
Hey we just saw that with Nick Foles. A good team is far more important than the QB, unless the QB is Brady or Brees.
THIS
The Brady's and Rodgers and Brees come around once in awhile.
Field of Dreams this thing. If you build it they (the QB) will come.
Hell, the Cowboys were able to do a lot with a 4th round QB from Ms St. Now everyone can have their doubts about his long term "franchise QB" status. But his rookie year they had 13 wins. Last season was 10-6. Hell, this year will be the first year without a winning record with that guy.
What do they have? An all star OL. A very good RB. Weapons around him.
Build the team. The QB should come close to last. (I think RB should be last, because you can get pretty good guys that'll be very good behind a really good OL)
Fix the lines. Start there. Protect the QB and get after the QB. Run the ball and stop the run. It all starts there.
(12-26-2019, 01:55 PM)JaguarKick Wrote: [ -> ] (12-24-2019, 07:28 PM)HolsterHusto Wrote: [ -> ]Or they could do a full rebuild and let go off some of the vets with bigger contracts (Calais, Dareus, Bouye, etc). You replace those guys with rookies and lesser value FAs and you are going to go through some major growing pains.
Can we please not do this again? The 49ers have shown that it shouldn't take 7 years to build a team.
They have had 5 straight non winning seasons, with recent records of 2-14, 6-10, and 4-12.
So 6 is the number that works?