Most of us on here, myself included, wanted to clean house and get rid of the FO and coaching staff. I still think that was the way to go, due to the fact there is just too much negativity in the organization that has been carried over from failing staff to next failing staff. Ultimately, I think that negativity will continue to engulf this franchise and next season will be more of the same.
That being said, there definitely is a plan in place for this franchise moving forward (whether we agree with it or not). There was a key phrase in Shad's statement that I think has been largely overlooked:
"This is not the time for an overhaul of the organization"
To me, this is more revealing than anything else that has been said today, and it means many things for the future.
1. I think Shad felt he had to choose between two options: a) going nuclear and resetting everything, with new coaching staff, FO, multiple veterans released and a full rebuild, or b) keeping most things in place and having one more shot at putting together a successful season with the current personnel. Like I said, to most of us, option a seems like a no-brainer. However, I think there are obvious reasons why Shad chose not to go this way. I think he is looking ahead, and sees next offseason as a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". First of all, our cap situation is kind of terrible, meaning the job is massively less appealing to a new head coach and GM. However, in a year from now we will have a lot more flexibility with the cap, making the prospect of a clean sweep more appealing. Secondly, we will have a much clearer idea of whether we have our QB of the future, or we need to look to the draft in 2021 to find one (which we know has some top QB options). Again, this would allow a head coach and gm to come in and build around their guy.
2. I think this means we will see fewer veterans released than we were expecting. They've gone for the option of trying to squeeze whatever we can out of the current personnel, which means players too. I now expect Calais, AJ and a few others to return for next year. Could be wrong on this point, but if they are going to give it one last whirl, they may as well keep the talent they do have.
3. Gardner will be the QB next year, and is probably the only reason why any of these guys still have jobs today. His play is probably the only reason that Shad considers there is a possibility of having any success next year. He probably wants the same coaching staff around him for another year to make his development as smooth as possible. Imagine how bad this (already very bad) season would have been without Minshew? Nobody would have survived...
So, to be clear, I think Shad was tempted to make sweeping changes now, but ultimately looked at the roster we have, looked at the available options, and decided that after next season would be much better for an organizational overhaul. In his mind, best case scenario is Doug and Dave somehow manage to turn this ship around, Minshew develops into a top QB, and the Jags are successful. Worst case scenario (and probable scenario) is more of the same, at which point we will be at a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". Again, I disagree with this approach, but I can see where he is coming from.
The team has four first-round picks over the next two years. Any GM candidate worth a damn would wet his pants for that setup.
The plan is that there is no plan. Stay the course.
The coaching staff won’t even be reviewed until they come back on the 13th.
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(12-31-2019, 05:03 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Most of us on here, myself included, wanted to clean house and get rid of the FO and coaching staff. I still think that was the way to go, due to the fact there is just too much negativity in the organization that has been carried over from failing staff to next failing staff. Ultimately, I think that negativity will continue to engulf this franchise and next season will be more of the same.
That being said, there definitely is a plan in place for this franchise moving forward (whether we agree with it or not). There was a key phrase in Shad's statement that I think has been largely overlooked:
"This is not the time for an overhaul of the organization"
To me, this is more revealing than anything else that has been said today, and it means many things for the future.
1. I think Shad felt he had to choose between two options: a) going nuclear and resetting everything, with new coaching staff, FO, multiple veterans released and a full rebuild, or b) keeping most things in place and having one more shot at putting together a successful season with the current personnel. Like I said, to most of us, option a seems like a no-brainer. However, I think there are obvious reasons why Shad chose not to go this way. I think he is looking ahead, and sees next offseason as a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". First of all, our cap situation is kind of terrible, meaning the job is massively less appealing to a new head coach and GM. However, in a year from now we will have a lot more flexibility with the cap, making the prospect of a clean sweep more appealing. Secondly, we will have a much clearer idea of whether we have our QB of the future, or we need to look to the draft in 2021 to find one (which we know has some top QB options). Again, this would allow a head coach and gm to come in and build around their guy.
2. I think this means we will see fewer veterans released than we were expecting. They've gone for the option of trying to squeeze whatever we can out of the current personnel, which means players too. I now expect Calais, AJ and a few others to return for next year. Could be wrong on this point, but if they are going to give it one last whirl, they may as well keep the talent they do have.
3. Gardner will be the QB next year, and is probably the only reason why any of these guys still have jobs today. His play is probably the only reason that Shad considers there is a possibility of having any success next year. He probably wants the same coaching staff around him for another year to make his development as smooth as possible. Imagine how bad this (already very bad) season would have been without Minshew? Nobody would have survived...
So, to be clear, I think Shad was tempted to make sweeping changes now, but ultimately looked at the roster we have, looked at the available options, and decided that after next season would be much better for an organizational overhaul. In his mind, best case scenario is Doug and Dave somehow manage to turn this ship around, Minshew develops into a top QB, and the Jags are successful. Worst case scenario (and probable scenario) is more of the same, at which point we will be at a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". Again, I disagree with this approach, but I can see where he is coming from.
The problem is it's all empty words at the moment. We hear it week after week. Were going to get better, we know what needs fixing and it never is.
Watching the press conference, I didnt get a feeling they had a list of guys and a real plan, they seem to think they can have a better roster. Same with expectation. Not saying playoffs or a number, just better. 7-9 is better.
This team was looking at a SB window with that 2017 D, yet weve blown it up in just 2 years. I just cant blame the penalties, horrible zone D calls, zero preparation on Coughlin.
It's going to be hoping Minshew can perform miracles again. I want to be positive I just have no reason to be.
Regarding your first thing listed. With wanting to avoid blowing it all up and starting over.
They're already on the cusp of that currently with this staff going into 2020.
Gipson, Church, Fowler, Jackson, Smith, Posluszny, Ramsey & Colvin are all gone now.
That's your 2017 defense that Khan keeps bringing up.
You're fixing to lose Dareus and more than likely see Campbell and Bouye gone next along with Ngakoue potentially walking.
That's an entire squad gone within 32 games played between 2018 and 2019.
So, it's not a good enough argument. That actually would have been the best time to introduce a new staff while you have promising, young talent in Allen, Chark and Minshew to build around.
Now we have to hope they get these next draft picks in place to benefit the team for the next regime.
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There is no plan. Never was.
This coaching staff has never out-schemed, out game-planned, out-coached ANYBODY. EVER!
(12-31-2019, 05:07 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]The plan is that there is no plan. Stay the course.
The coaching staff won’t even be reviewed until they come back on the 13th.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I mean... The guy is a self made billionaire. He definitely has a plan.
Personally, I don't think it's a good plan, but it's foolish to think that he doesn't have one.
(12-31-2019, 05:23 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 05:03 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Most of us on here, myself included, wanted to clean house and get rid of the FO and coaching staff. I still think that was the way to go, due to the fact there is just too much negativity in the organization that has been carried over from failing staff to next failing staff. Ultimately, I think that negativity will continue to engulf this franchise and next season will be more of the same.
That being said, there definitely is a plan in place for this franchise moving forward (whether we agree with it or not). There was a key phrase in Shad's statement that I think has been largely overlooked:
"This is not the time for an overhaul of the organization"
To me, this is more revealing than anything else that has been said today, and it means many things for the future.
1. I think Shad felt he had to choose between two options: a) going nuclear and resetting everything, with new coaching staff, FO, multiple veterans released and a full rebuild, or b) keeping most things in place and having one more shot at putting together a successful season with the current personnel. Like I said, to most of us, option a seems like a no-brainer. However, I think there are obvious reasons why Shad chose not to go this way. I think he is looking ahead, and sees next offseason as a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". First of all, our cap situation is kind of terrible, meaning the job is massively less appealing to a new head coach and GM. However, in a year from now we will have a lot more flexibility with the cap, making the prospect of a clean sweep more appealing. Secondly, we will have a much clearer idea of whether we have our QB of the future, or we need to look to the draft in 2021 to find one (which we know has some top QB options). Again, this would allow a head coach and gm to come in and build around their guy.
2. I think this means we will see fewer veterans released than we were expecting. They've gone for the option of trying to squeeze whatever we can out of the current personnel, which means players too. I now expect Calais, AJ and a few others to return for next year. Could be wrong on this point, but if they are going to give it one last whirl, they may as well keep the talent they do have.
3. Gardner will be the QB next year, and is probably the only reason why any of these guys still have jobs today. His play is probably the only reason that Shad considers there is a possibility of having any success next year. He probably wants the same coaching staff around him for another year to make his development as smooth as possible. Imagine how bad this (already very bad) season would have been without Minshew? Nobody would have survived...
So, to be clear, I think Shad was tempted to make sweeping changes now, but ultimately looked at the roster we have, looked at the available options, and decided that after next season would be much better for an organizational overhaul. In his mind, best case scenario is Doug and Dave somehow manage to turn this ship around, Minshew develops into a top QB, and the Jags are successful. Worst case scenario (and probable scenario) is more of the same, at which point we will be at a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". Again, I disagree with this approach, but I can see where he is coming from.
The problem is it's all empty words at the moment. We hear it week after week. Were going to get better, we know what needs fixing and it never is.
Watching the press conference, I didnt get a feeling they had a list of guys and a real plan, they seem to think they can have a better roster. Same with expectation. Not saying playoffs or a number, just better. 7-9 is better.
This team was looking at a SB window with that 2017 D, yet weve blown it up in just 2 years. I just cant blame the penalties, horrible zone D calls, zero preparation on Coughlin.
It's going to be hoping Minshew can perform miracles again. I want to be positive I just have no reason to be.
I agree, and I think those empty words ring even emptier this time around. Watching Dave answer the question about what the team can achieve.next season, he didn't even seem to believe it himself.
The truth is they almost certainly know the odds of them turning it around next season are very low.
Fanatics are really good at twisting things to fit into warped logic boxes.
I think the idea of keeping things constant for minshew is the only logic I can see. Really, it’s hard to explain the lack of accountability for this staff. Here is hoping to a better season and a rebirth of the franchise next year.
(12-31-2019, 06:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Fanatics are really good at twisting things to fit into warped logic boxes.
Which fanatic would that be? I couldn't be clearer in saying I disagree with this approach, I'm just trying to outline what I think is the thought-process behind it.
Khan is a billionaire for a reason - he wants to make money. You fire DM/DC and you have to pay their salaries for the next two years, plus the salaries of the new staff.
Khan is counting on the fans to keep buying tickets so Khan gets even richer. It's a good plan for him, not so good for the fans who will deal with another miserable season.
The best positives from this to me are Mishew will get a chance, Yannick and Dareus might get resigned. ( Restructure for Dareus because he loves Marrone)
(12-31-2019, 05:58 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 05:07 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]The plan is that there is no plan. Stay the course.
The coaching staff won’t even be reviewed until they come back on the 13th.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I mean... The guy is a self made billionaire. He definitely has a plan.
Personally, I don't think it's a good plan, but it's foolish to think that he doesn't have one.
Shad's being a billionaire has nothing to do with Doug and Dave having no plan. Did you hear a plan in the press conference? I kept hearing them refer to a plan. But they never articulated a plan. As far as I can tell, there is no plan. It's just more empty words.
khans plan is simple. he wants to lose,he loves loseing. he enjoys loseing a whole lot more then winning. thats his plan to keep loseing year afer year.
(12-31-2019, 06:36 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (12-31-2019, 05:58 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]I mean... The guy is a self made billionaire. He definitely has a plan.
Personally, I don't think it's a good plan, but it's foolish to think that he doesn't have one.
Shad's being a billionaire has nothing to do with Doug and Dave having no plan. Did you hear a plan in the press conference? I kept hearing them refer to a plan. But they never articulated a plan. As far as I can tell, there is no plan. It's just more empty words.
Ok, that I agree with... Yeah, I think Dave and Doug are probably partly relieved that they have another shot, something they wouldn't have gotten anywhere else any time soon. They also probably know it's mission impossible, so they can't be too thrilled about it.
I was just reading per Adam Schefter that Matt Rhule declined to interview with Cleveland and I immediately understood the decision. Who could Khan go get? The Giants or Panthers will get 1st dibs and imo even the Cleveland roster looks more attractive than ours on paper. At this point my Hope's are that they find ways to keep and focus on our good players. They should be blowing Yanns phone up as we speak. They absolutely have to get this right to show other players the Jags will pay those that do it right. If he gets away, we just continue to look like a place that's not willing to take care of it's own. The culture needs a major overhaul before we have a shot at the big names. Right now this is simply a place that noone wants to be.
(12-31-2019, 05:05 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]The team has four first-round picks over the next two years. Any GM candidate worth a damn would wet his pants for that setup.
This can't be said enough.
What rookie GM wouldn't want 4 picks in the first 2 years? Throw in a promising young QB, and you probably get your choice of candidates.
(12-31-2019, 05:03 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]Most of us on here, myself included, wanted to clean house and get rid of the FO and coaching staff. I still think that was the way to go, due to the fact there is just too much negativity in the organization that has been carried over from failing staff to next failing staff. Ultimately, I think that negativity will continue to engulf this franchise and next season will be more of the same.
That being said, there definitely is a plan in place for this franchise moving forward (whether we agree with it or not). There was a key phrase in Shad's statement that I think has been largely overlooked:
"This is not the time for an overhaul of the organization"
To me, this is more revealing than anything else that has been said today, and it means many things for the future.
1. I think Shad felt he had to choose between two options: a) going nuclear and resetting everything, with new coaching staff, FO, multiple veterans released and a full rebuild, or b) keeping most things in place and having one more shot at putting together a successful season with the current personnel. Like I said, to most of us, option a seems like a no-brainer. However, I think there are obvious reasons why Shad chose not to go this way. I think he is looking ahead, and sees next offseason as a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". First of all, our cap situation is kind of terrible, meaning the job is massively less appealing to a new head coach and GM. However, in a year from now we will have a lot more flexibility with the cap, making the prospect of a clean sweep more appealing. Secondly, we will have a much clearer idea of whether we have our QB of the future, or we need to look to the draft in 2021 to find one (which we know has some top QB options). Again, this would allow a head coach and gm to come in and build around their guy.
2. I think this means we will see fewer veterans released than we were expecting. They've gone for the option of trying to squeeze whatever we can out of the current personnel, which means players too. I now expect Calais, AJ and a few others to return for next year. Could be wrong on this point, but if they are going to give it one last whirl, they may as well keep the talent they do have.
3. Gardner will be the QB next year, and is probably the only reason why any of these guys still have jobs today. His play is probably the only reason that Shad considers there is a possibility of having any success next year. He probably wants the same coaching staff around him for another year to make his development as smooth as possible. Imagine how bad this (already very bad) season would have been without Minshew? Nobody would have survived...
So, to be clear, I think Shad was tempted to make sweeping changes now, but ultimately looked at the roster we have, looked at the available options, and decided that after next season would be much better for an organizational overhaul. In his mind, best case scenario is Doug and Dave somehow manage to turn this ship around, Minshew develops into a top QB, and the Jags are successful. Worst case scenario (and probable scenario) is more of the same, at which point we will be at a much better "time for an overhaul of the organization". Again, I disagree with this approach, but I can see where he is coming from.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
But there is another possibility and that is that Shad thinks the odds of him finding someone better to coach and manage the team is not that great. I don't agree with that, but it's possible that he really thinks that DC and DM are good enough, and that circumstances beyond their control have derailed the team for the last 2 years.
Nothing worse than an owner that has blinders on and keeps pointing to the 2017 season as a reason for his choices. When you look at what went wrong, it was that the roster wasn't that good and the coaching staff can't plan or get the players to execute. The AFC South is thrilled that we are standing pat, oh wait they aren't even thinking about it because 2 of them made the playoffs.