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All of the people who support Hillary for POTUS deserve what they have coming to them.

Quote:What are your alternatives to free markets and free trade?

 

Fair markets and trade that benefits small business and the middle class.  You have to set up rules (ie regulations) in order to stop corporations from turning the market into a monopoly or oligopoly.

 

Governments should be the refs that allow the game to be played on an even level.  And there should be rules that disallow monopolies and oligopolies to form. 

 

Wouldn't you rather have a whole bunch of competition instead of walmart and target colluding.  Wouldn't you like choice instead of having to buy Comcast for your cable service?

 

I would.

Quote:His answers sounded like Larry The Cable Guy speaking for the masses. Well done, but those voters aren't the ones he needs to sway.

 

ya ok

Quote:All of the people who support Hillary for POTUS deserve what they have coming to them.

 

theyre really happy with how things are going. a vote for hillary is a vote for more of the same. if they cant agree with that, then this is strictly a mental illness problem.

Quote:Yeah, there was a lot of "Nafta is terrible, it's the worst deal ever, it's cost us jobs..."   That's fine if you already believe Nafta is terrible.  But I don't see how such statements can persuade the white collar white people he needs to win over to get more votes than Clinton.   No specifics.   I'm watching.   I don't like Hillary Clinton.   Here's your chance!   Tell me why Nafta is terrible.   I didn't get an answer. 

 

Tell me why I should pay more for stuff in order to save some guy's job in Ohio. 

 

If you do actually care about the policy, I recommend reading his policy statement. You will never, ever get an effective answer from a 2-minute sound bite. Just can't happen. If you had watched him during the primaries, you could see he is more entertainer and policy wonk.

 

So read this, and maybe it helps influence your decision.

 

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/economic-vision

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/u...ade-reform

Quote:Free markets and free trade aren't inherently the issue. It's just that they are currently designed as one-way streets. We can't trade into China, Japan, Vietnam, or South Korea, but they are free to ship us whatever manufactured goods they want without tariff. A lot of this has to do with unchecked currency manipulation. So why are we even trading with them? Find other trade partners of equal development and PPP.

 

Personally I fail to see how Hillary's tax plan could even possibly encourage growth in the United States. What incentive could their possibly be to start a company or move a company to the United States when you are paying 40% corporate tax rates, 65% upper income rates, and 65% estate tax? I would absolutely move my business or startup in Ireland, Netherlands, or one of the tax haven city-states. This doesn't even take into the fact she is also pro-NAFTA and pro-TPP. I just cant picture the economy growing in any way, shape, or form under her.

 

Hillary's tax plan would at least keep us afloat.  Trumps would increase debt and force cuts on social services.  That's not what we need.

 

As for free markets and trade not being inherently the issue.  That is correct, they are not the issue.  But the natural push by companies to corner a market and become monopolies or stale mated oligopolies that collude is the inherent goal of all corporations.  So there needs to be rules and regulations that allow for the market to remain vibrant and dynamic.

 

You can't just let the corporations make the rules for themelves, because they'll push out everyone else and leave themeselves to run stuff.  This is what we've seen in reality.

Quote:Fair markets and trade that benefits small business and the middle class.  You have to set up rules (ie regulations) in order to stop corporations from turning the market into a monopoly or oligopoly.

 

Governments should be the refs that allow the game to be played on an even level.  And there should be rules that disallow monopolies and oligopolies to form. 

 

Wouldn't you rather have a whole bunch of competition instead of walmart and target colluding.  Wouldn't you like choice instead of having to buy Comcast for your cable service?

 

I would.

 

Anti-trust laws exist. They aren't enforced because market lobbyist have so much influence over our current political leadership. Comcast is way larger than Bell, why haven't they been broken up yet? Anti-trust laws simply aren't enforced.

Soooooooooooo, I see Trump was geeking on the Columbian Bam Bam last night.

 

Trump's sniffles prompt Howard Dean to tweet 'Coke user?'

 

Quote: 

Soooooooooooo, I see Trump was geeking on the Columbian Bam Bam last night.

 

Trump's sniffles prompt Howard Dean to tweet 'Coke user?'
 

 

Classic projection. We have all seen Howard Dean's rallies.

 

BYRAEEEEEEEEEEERGH

Quote:I am also not including the massive regulations she wants to place on the energy industry. You can only subsidize so much clean energy product, but if the demand is there then its going to be wasted just like Solyndra. People aren't aware of the ramifications of Barack Obama's energy policy which will be amplified x10 with Hillary. When you destroy the coal industry, like what is being done right now, you aren't just destroying the industry itself but also the SHIPPING industry. Railroads are downsizing, shutting down, cutting jobs, etc across the country because there so no more coal to ship. Huge ramifications. The economy will collapse under her policies, or at least creep to a halt (which it is already doing).

 

We subsidize the oil industry, don't we?  I'm curious why is it OK to subsidize farming and oil, but not new industries?  Or do you not beleive in any subsidies?

 

Burning fossil fuels is something that needs to be curtailed.  We should drive towards this, in most people's opinion.  If you see the government as a driving factor for change and you see our society as the best, why not support us becoming the leader in renewable energy?  Of course, if you feel that government is bad, then I guess we'll wait for the market to create renewable energy...  Except there is currently no incentive for the market to do it.  That's when government comes in handy.

Quote:Soooooooooooo, I see Trump was geeking on the Columbian Bam Bam last night.

 

Trump's sniffles prompt Howard Dean to tweet 'Coke user?'

 

 

He was thirsty too.  And he started leaning all weird.  Trump looked unhealthy.  At one point, I thought his crooked posture was gonna make him fall over.

 

And did you see his hands shaking every time he took a drink of water.  The dude was thirstier than little Marco!

 

He had a terrible night, no offense.

Many moments from this debate that are memorable. The one that I can't shake is Trump admitting he doesn't pay his taxes. Un-real.

Quote:Many moments from this debate that are memorable. The one that I can't shake is Trump admitting he doesn't pay his taxes. Un-real.

 

The moment when she called trump out by saying she was preparing to be president was the moment I knew she'd won the debate.  

 

But the tax thing is something that it seems really got under the skin of alot of people as well.  And it's true.  This is the reason why middle class people are getting the shaft.  The rich pay less in effective taxes than the rest of us.  We carry the burden of the society, and the rich get all the benefits.  That's not smart.  That's un-patriotic.  But hey, if you want to be un-patriotic, fine.  Just don't run for government and tell us how much you care.  When it's clear you don't.  

Quote:We subsidize the oil industry, don't we?  I'm curious why is it OK to subsidize farming and oil, but not new industries?  Or do you not beleive in any subsidies?

 

Burning fossil fuels is something that needs to be curtailed.  We should drive towards this, in most people's opinion.  If you see the government as a driving factor for change and you see our society as the best, why not support us becoming the leader in renewable energy?  Of course, if you feel that government is bad, then I guess we'll wait for the market to create renewable energy...  Except there is currently no incentive for the market to do it.  That's when government comes in handy.

 

Subsidies are tricky. I am generally not in favor of them, but I can see them being used to get certain industries rolling. I am NOT in favor of oil subsidies.  Farming I am, but that is because much of our produce development has to compete with, again, underdeveloped markets that have unfair advantages over our own. If we cut agricultural subsidies, our farms would go out of business and our produce would be entirely imported, costing millions of jobs. I believe we wouldn't have to subsidize agriculture if they could compete evenly with the other markets (and our own), but they cant. Without subsidies though, local produce and beef would be totally out-priced by Mexico and China.

Quote:Subsidies are tricky. I am generally not in favor of them, but I can see them being used to get certain industries rolling. I am NOT in favor of oil subsidies.  Farming I am, but that is because much of our produce development has to compete with, again, underdeveloped markets that have unfair advantages over our own. If we cut agricultural subsidies, our farms would go out of business and our produce would be entirely imported, costing millions of jobs. I believe we wouldn't have to subsidize agriculture if they could compete evenly with the other markets (and our own), but they cant. Without subsidies though, local produce and beef would be totally out-priced by Mexico and China.

 

I agree with almost all of this.

 

Now if we circle to renewable energy...  Wouldn't the same effect that we have with farm subsidies work for helping prop up an emerging industry here in the USA?  I mean, think if we actually did put solor panels in all the southwest and other high sunshine areas.  Why not make this investment?  

Quote:Lester seemed biased towards Hillary, never interrupted her the same way he did Trump. I think Trump made some great points and I give him the edge in that debate.

 

We already knew before the debate Lester Holt is a registered Republican. There was an uproar about the decision not to use a political independent moderator after he was selected for the job.

 

Knowing this, why would you accuse Holt of favoring the Democrat?

Quote:The moment when she called trump out by saying she was preparing to be president was the moment I knew she'd won the debate.  

 

But the tax thing is something that it seems really got under the skin of alot of people as well.  And it's true.  This is the reason why middle class people are getting the shaft.  The rich pay less in effective taxes than the rest of us.  We carry the burden of the society, and the rich get all the benefits.  That's not smart.  That's un-patriotic.  But hey, if you want to be un-patriotic, fine.  Just don't run for government and tell us how much you care.  When it's clear you don't.  

 

It is legal and every major business entrepreneur, even your favorites, do it to maximize revenue. If you don't do it, you aren't a very good businessman or haven't hired very good accountants and lawyers. Both candidates want to fix the problem and have plans, but it comes down to who do you believe will actually do it? Hillary, who has taken 100s of millions from Wall-Street and big banks to ensure the status quo remains, or Trump, who has used the laws himself to maximize his own business revenue.

I didn't watch much of it, so I can only go by what the media says.

 

FOX - "Trump won by a landslide"

CNN - "HRC sinks Trump like a ton of bricks"

Quote:I didn't watch much of it, so I can only go by what the media says.

 

FOX - "Trump won by a landslide"

CNN - "HRC sinks Trump like a ton of bricks"

 

You should know by now that your only source of truthful news comes from the analysis by the members of this message board.

Yeah, but I didn't want to read 15 pages.